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Difference between 50's ABR-1 and Tailpiece and early 60's ABR-1 and Tailpiece

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Richard Russell

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Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
334
Hey folks I am in the process of getting the hardware for the GT conversion I am working on.
I have in my possession a 1965 tailpiece and a early 1970-71? ABR bridge (patent num no foundry)
I was wondering what differences there are between the 50's era vs 60's era pieces. I read somewhere that
that 50's and early 60's hardware was virtually identical but that after Norlin took over in 69 they sourced cheaper stuff.
I don't know if that is true but any guidance would be appreciated. PS what is the difference between the LP Jr wrap tailpiece and
say a Les Paul standard tailpiece from that era, if any?
Thanks
 
Tom Wittrock

Tom Wittrock

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Richard Russell said:
PS what is the difference between the LP Jr wrap tailpiece and
say a Les Paul standard tailpiece from that era, if any?
Thanks
Click to expand...

A wrap tail tailpiece has set screws to push against the studs, and allow a minimal intonation adjustment. :)
 
R

Richard Russell

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Aug 10, 2001
Messages
334
Tom Wittrock said:
A wrap tail tailpiece has set screws to push against the studs, and allow a minimal intonation adjustment. :)
Click to expand...

Tom thanks so much. How come you know everything? ;) But other than the adjustment screws they are the same, i.e., material, construction, shape?
 
Tom Wittrock

Tom Wittrock

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Richard Russell said:
Tom thanks so much. How come you know everything? ;) But other than the adjustment screws they are the same, i.e., material, construction, shape?
Click to expand...

I don't even know 1/10th of everything. After all, I didn't answer your main questions. :laugh2:

As far as I know, other than the set screws they are the same. I'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong. :ganz
 
R

Richard Russell

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Tom Wittrock said:
I don't even know 1/10th of everything. After all, I didn't answer your main questions. :laugh2:

As far as I know, other than the set screws they are the same. I'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong. :ganz
Click to expand...

I would say at least 1/10th maybe more. Thanks as always!
 
MapleFlame

MapleFlame

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Other than set screw, same. I use them on my Conversions and other guitars. As for the ABR-1, the 50's and early 60's are the same other than wire to hold saddles and chrome plating. The material is identical. Again and cheaper alternative for good tone. I can't remember exactly when the Pat. Pend. ones changed metals, I presume late 60's early 70's.
 
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RandK

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Jun 12, 2004
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A 50's wraparound tailpiece doesn't have the recesses (holes) for the string ball ends in the back. You could use it as a tailpiece if you want to top wrap.
 
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zappa1777

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Jun 23, 2015
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I've done a little bit of comparing these types of parts. As long as your tailpiece is super light weight (about 30 grams) it's the same as a 50s piece and I'm pretty sure your patent abr will sound just like a 50s one. Your parts will sound better than any reissue part I've ever tried
 
R

Richard Russell

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Messages
334
zappa1777 said:
I've done a little bit of comparing these types of parts. As long as your tailpiece is super light weight (about 30 grams) it's the same as a 50s piece and I'm pretty sure your patent abr will sound just like a 50s one. Your parts will sound better than any reissue part I've ever tried
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. With a lot of advice from Chris M and Freddy Frets and John D. I finished the routing (and maple plug insert) and the refinish of the top. I also pulled the worn pitted frets and used Stew Mac 59 specs wire for the refret...So ok I installed a pair of 1982 Gibson Shaw's and strung the guitar. I have to admit I was nervous cause this 53 had great tone and I was worried that my mods had screwed it up but no the minute I plugged in I knew I hadn't screwed her up. Just has that great tone. Even without vintage pups. Just has it. Well so ok one thing I need to do is get a new nut... the old one was cut when there was almost no frets. Any suggestions for a replacement nut.
As an aside, Freddy and John and Chris were a huge help. I got great advice and I think she came out great. I know a lot of folks here where unhappy that I was doing the conversion but I have to say the guitar came out great and just sings. I love it. As per Freddy I shot a hot yellow color coat but I had also hand rubbed a semi burst stain and then sanded back a little. The reason why I did this was to even out the pieces of flame maple and it worked. The yellow is very hot right now but I used Aniline dye so I am thinking she will fade. Either way I am happy with how she turned out. Trust me the conversion, to do it right, is a ton of work. Everything has to be measured and measured again.
For pups I was thinking of reasonably priced set of PAF or PAT early 60s? I think the price people ask for 59 PAFS is crazy. I am also thinking Creamtone for a pickguard.
Again thoughts from you guys would be appreciated. Thanks for all the help and advice from everyone.
 
sws1

sws1

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Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,848
Richard Russell said:
Thanks for the info. With a lot of advice from Chris M and Freddy Frets and John D. I finished the routing (and maple plug insert) and the refinish of the top. I also pulled the worn pitted frets and used Stew Mac 59 specs wire for the refret...So ok I installed a pair of 1982 Gibson Shaw's and strung the guitar. I have to admit I was nervous cause this 53 had great tone and I was worried that my mods had screwed it up but no the minute I plugged in I knew I hadn't screwed her up. Just has that great tone. Even without vintage pups. Just has it. Well so ok one thing I need to do is get a new nut... the old one was cut when there was almost no frets. Any suggestions for a replacement nut.
As an aside, Freddy and John and Chris were a huge help. I got great advice and I think she came out great. I know a lot of folks here where unhappy that I was doing the conversion but I have to say the guitar came out great and just sings. I love it. As per Freddy I shot a hot yellow color coat but I had also hand rubbed a semi burst stain and then sanded back a little. The reason why I did this was to even out the pieces of flame maple and it worked. The yellow is very hot right now but I used Aniline dye so I am thinking she will fade. Either way I am happy with how she turned out. Trust me the conversion, to do it right, is a ton of work. Everything has to be measured and measured again.
For pups I was thinking of reasonably priced set of PAF or PAT early 60s? I think the price people ask for 59 PAFS is crazy. I am also thinking Creamtone for a pickguard.
Again thoughts from you guys would be appreciated. Thanks for all the help and advice from everyone.
Click to expand...

You can buy era-correct nylon nut blanks on Ebay, and then carve/shape/cut yourself.
 
R

Richard Russell

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Aug 10, 2001
Messages
334
sws1 said:
You can buy era-correct nylon nut blanks on Ebay, and then carve/shape/cut yourself.
Click to expand...

ok i did a little super glue and baking soda trick and then I noticed the first fret was a little high on that side so I took it down and
thus saved my original nut. Whoopee.
 
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zappa1777

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Jun 23, 2015
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I would order a set of pickups from Dave Stephens. The waiting list is excruciatingly long but it's worth it. He will make a set that really work for less than half what a set of patents will cost and they will kick ass. I've had a whole bunch of old patents. Some sound amazing and some simply don't. Finding a bridge pickup that works is really hard. Most of them are around 7.5k only. It's hit and miss for top dollar with real vintage pickups. With Dave you can't go wrong
 
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