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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    High prices for sure. I'd want a cert. from Leo for a 50K hard tail strat...

    https://reverb.com/item/23043813-fen...color-sunburst

    Plus, the '65 LPB body seems to be a '66...... (another one of their listings)

    https://reverb.com/item/23043581-fen...ke-placid-blue
    Last edited by opdev; 09-09-19 at 12:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Links are for the same guitar.

  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Gotta love $35k guitars with shims.


  4. #4

    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb


  5. #5

    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb


  6. #6
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    I got .a picture of the "cert" and have to say it's kinda lame.

    Plus, they don't even know how long they have had it and its not from any formal Fender archive. Seems like just some clean guitars (no provenance) and no historical significance.

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by sonar View Post
    Gotta love $35k guitars with shims.

    What's wrong with the shim? It's a common Fender shim.
    Pauls to the walls!

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  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    What's wrong with the shim? It's a common Fender shim.
    Nothing "wrong."

    But maybe it lowers the mystique of vintage Fender down a notch?

    Maybe modern technology has improved an aspect of the manufacturing process with the bolt-on neck guitar? Not saying advances in technology has completely eradicated the neck shim, but they are less common than they used to be even 20 years ago.

    I still bought my vintage Fenders knowing that they might have shims. I love vintage gear, but this pic might show that old guitars are not necessarily superior instruments.

  9. #9
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by sonar View Post
    I love vintage gear, but this pic might show that old guitars are not necessarily superior instruments.
    A shim has no bearing on whether it's a superior instrument.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    A shim has no bearing on whether it's a superior instrument.
    Neither does vintage.

  11. #11

    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    One might questioon why they are selling these in the first place?
    Game on!

  12. #12
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by sonar View Post
    Neither does vintage.
    IME, it increases the probability.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by sonar View Post
    Nothing "wrong."

    But maybe it lowers the mystique of vintage Fender down a notch?

    Maybe modern technology has improved an aspect of the manufacturing process with the bolt-on neck guitar? Not saying advances in technology has completely eradicated the neck shim, but they are less common than they used to be even 20 years ago.

    I still bought my vintage Fenders knowing that they might have shims. I love vintage gear, but this pic might show that old guitars are not necessarily superior instruments.
    Since this was common on vintage [pre-72 ] Strats, I don't see how it can possibly effect mystique, except to newbies who just don't know. I've dealt with them over 45 years and never gave them a second thought.
    In 1972 Fender started using their tilt neck adjustment, which negates the need for shims, as it doe it mechanically.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Although there was 100% no question more leeway in terms of the hand finishing & tooling methods in the first couple decades of Fender I don't think the shim means much. I still shim for preference on the new guitars, it can go a long way in putting the saddles/string height off the body where you want them.


    What's "quality" mean in a Fender anyways? It sounds good and it's not screwed up?


    String alignment a little off? Loosen the 4 bolts a turn, align neck, tighten. Problem solved.

    Neck pitch too high/low? Shim the bastard. Problem solved.

    Intonation? Fully adjustable through a large range of string gauges.

    String height? Fully adjustable.

    So, all your big angles right there are dummy proof, just cut'em flat.

    Even the "neck pocket" comments you always see in terms of people touting "quality" on the internet are ill-informed, there's supposed to be some tolerance in the pocket because the the maple will shrink/swell differently than the ash/alder/etc. A tight neck pocket usully means a cracked neck pocket.



    So, that last thing I want on a Fender style bolt-on guitar is some feller/builder touting his superior attention to angles, alchemy, and **** like that. It's two totally adjustable/modable dummy proof planks and whey they pair well they fair well.

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Since this was common on vintage [pre-72 ] Strats, I don't see how it can possibly effect mystique, except to newbies who just don't know. I've dealt with them over 45 years and never gave them a second thought.
    In 1972 Fender started using their tilt neck adjustment, which negates the need for shims, as it doe it mechanically.
    Hey Tom,

    I'll admit I was a little surprised the first time I saw a shim on a Mary Kay my former luthier was working on for another customer.

    As a teenager I had a friend that worked at Washburn setting up their "import" guitars. (If anybody remembers this was around the time the Feds raided Washburn for fraudulently marking guitars as "Made in USA.") Most (if not all) had shims, which Washburn employees would joke about. Many of these models were pretty crummy guitars with or without a shim, but the association with shims and crappy guitars stuck in my mind. A few years later when I became interested in pre-CBS Fender I was taken aback when I saw a shim on an extremely desirable Strat. My luthier talked me down, but for me some of the mystique was lost that day and things were put into perspective. Even the Holy Grail has imperfections.

    I'm not surprised my original snarky comment and follow up has gotten a response or two (the vintage folk are an easy dig ) although my original comment was meant to be a little more innocuous than it probably reads. Tom, you never seem to take the conversation as an attack, so hopefully I didn't offend you.

    I will stand by my comment(s) about modern manufacturing techniques improving elements of the mass produced guitar. Builders like PRS and Ernie Ball Musicman make guitars using modern day technology that rival, and exceed in the case of attaching a bolt-on neck to a guitar body, many of the best vintage guitars when it comes to build technique on a production line level.

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by sonar View Post
    Tom, you never seem to take the conversation as an attack, so hopefully I didn't offend you.
    Not at all.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

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  17. #17
    In the Zone/Backstage Pass
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    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    I saw that stuff on Reverb yesterday, and it just seems completely dingy to me. In fact, I was really turned off--whole thing just seemed completely unappealing. The fact is that the vintage market has been well-established for decades, with essentially three cohorts: 1) A (very) few trusted dealers 2) some high-profile "free agents", and by far the largest, 3) the community of player/collectors, who are constantly buying and selling among themselves.

    As a decades-long participant in #3, I don't need some bullshit "Fender" imprimatur to help me make decisions. There's no evidence that they know anymore about these guitars than anyone else. I also found their pricing aggressive and off-putting.

    No thanks.

  18. #18

    Re: Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich R View Post
    I saw that stuff on Reverb yesterday, and it just seems completely dingy to me. In fact, I was really turned off--whole thing just seemed completely unappealing. The fact is that the vintage market has been well-established for decades, with essentially three cohorts: 1) A (very) few trusted dealers 2) some high-profile "free agents", and by far the largest, 3) the community of player/collectors, who are constantly buying and selling among themselves.

    As a decades-long participant in #3, I don't need some bullshit "Fender" imprimatur to help me make decisions. There's no evidence that they know anymore about these guitars than anyone else. I also found their pricing aggressive and off-putting.

    No thanks.
    AMEN!

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