The Fender Forum
NEW! LPF Facebook Page
NEW! LPF Instagram Page
Merchandise & Donations
NEW! Burst Serial Log Home Page
LPF Homesite
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member Cliff Gress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Pure Michigan
    Posts
    2,863

    Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Echopark Guitars in Detroit will be making the V and Explorer in some fashion. The article and video are not specific.

    If true, I am elated!

    https://www.clickondetroit.com/uniqu...michigan-again

  2. #2

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Dear Gibson - Please make lefty Korinas!

    To bring this even more full circle, I know Heritage is doing OK, but how cool to re-acquire or provide license to build out of Kalamazoo?!


  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    OL, Michigan
    Posts
    59

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Yahoo! Gabriel's work is amazing. When I handled one the Echopark V's, I was sure it was better than the real thing.

  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    1,236

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!


  5. #5

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Yikes! Dubious and divisive at best.

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member Norton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    10

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Gibson signed similar agreements with a couple of other builders, but I thought it was a license to continue to build the trademark designs and avoid the lawsuit, not to brand the instruments as Gibson. Either way I don't think I would consider Echopark guitars a triumphant return to Michigan for Gibson.

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Some place between bad wood & good wood
    Posts
    2,329

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    I could really give a Hoot , Does it really matter as long as they build in USA I've owned enough old Gibson & Historics IMO a address is moot !

    I really don't believe anything magical about Michigan , companies a 100 years old evolve change .

    I really wonder how many of my Forum brethren believe Kalamazoo was the end all .

    Is there not a guitar MFG in the old Gibson address , Hows that working out ? They must be big players on the market ?
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator CDaughtry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    12,556

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Is everyone enjoying the dust up Joe B. and Echopark are having on Instagram?

    Memo to Gibson: There’s still time to re-think this move!

  9. #9

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post
    Is everyone enjoying the dust up Joe B. and Echopark are having on Instagram?

    Memo to Gibson: There’s still time to re-think this move!
    Zoinks!

    - Could it be the licensing deal is "fake news" from EchoPark to pump up their credibility, sales?

    - Perhaps Joe is speed-dialing JC to avert potential disaster?

    Anyways... kudos to Epi for those Amos Vs!


    P.S. In related news, the Daddy Reed Burst 9-0427 still has superb color....

  10. #10

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    OK - so we now know Echopark licensing is a bona fide move... not fake news. So let's hope Joe B is dialing, per prior post.

    I think Gibson solicited these deals very specially, for IP protection reasons. Supporting boutiques may be a synergistic outcome.



    Reading the press release, follows... They way I figure this, Gibson is NOT subcontracting manufacturing per some other's interpretation(s), but licensing headstock / body shape IP to a spectrum of builders who could have been seen as infringing on Gibson's IP.


    We may never even see Gibson-branded guitars from Echopark or any of these boutique builders. I will go out on a limb and say it's doubtful we'll see 'Gibson' on the headstock -- unless Gibson are very closely involved and do extensive QC [ I know, I know -- laughs it up fuzzball ] which enables warrantee coverage and post-sales support. Perhaps we'll see "Explorer by EchoPark, (small font) licensed by Gibson" or some variation on the headstock.


    To me, this looks like Gibson approached replica builders and shepherded them into compliance in order to reinforce their IP and establish precedent of IP protection, licensing as a means to defend then pursue others... very savvy if this holds [not a lawyer, myself, but seems evident]. Check to Gibson, your move to infringers


    Link and PR text follows --


    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gibson-announces-new-collaborations-300887737.html

    Gibson Announces New Collaborations
    NEWS PROVIDED BY
    Gibson
    Jul 18, 2019, 16:37 ET
    NASHVILLE, July 18, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- Gibson is pleased to announce new creative collaboration agreements with key boutique guitar makers and music inspired partners.
    Gibson announced today that it has entered into multi-year collaboration agreements with Jimmy Wallace Guitars, Banker Custom Guitars and Echopark Guitars. Under these collaboration agreements, Gibson will give these key boutique builders and luthiers a license to use Gibson trademarks, including the Les Paul Body Shape Design® (U.S. Reg. No. 1782606), Explorer Body Shape Design® Trademark (U.S. Reg. No. 2053805), ES-335 Body Shape Design® Trademark (U.S. Reg. No. 2007277), Firebird Body Shape Design® (U.S. Reg. No. 4107670), Flying V Body Shape Design® Trademark (U.S. Reg. No. 2051790), Flying V Headstock® (U.S. Reg. No. 3976202), Headstock Design® (U.S. Reg. No. 1567052), FLYING V® (U.S. Reg. No. 1216644), FIREBIRD® (U.S. Reg. No. 5628009), EXPLORER® (U.S. Reg. No. 2641548), Firebird Headstock TM (collectively "Trademarks").
    Gibson has also committed to help showcase, promote and amplify Jimmy Wallace, Banker Custom and Echopark Guitars' pursuit for craftmanship through Gibson channels and events. "We are excited about these collaborations; Orville Gibson started as a boutique builder in 1894 in his workshop in Kalamazoo, MI, and these new collaborations are a way to pay tribute to Orville's legacy in support of boutique builders and luthiers," said Cesar Gueikian, Chief Merchant Officer of Gibson Brands.
    Jimmy Wallace Guitars was conceived by Jimmy Wallace in 1978 bringing over 40 years of experience in his "life pursuit of tone," paying tribute to American craftsmanship and design. In addition to his personal musical career, Jimmy Wallace has been an ambassador for musicians for decades. He started the Dallas International Guitar Show in 1978 and has since become a respected voice within the dealer and collector community. Wallace has been instrumental in music education and promotion of young artists, including the "Young Guns of Guitar 10 Under 20" competition, which has been supported by Gibson and is a melting pot for many young artists to reach the main stage. "I'm thrilled to reunite with Gibson through this exciting collaboration," said Jimmy Wallace. "The opportunity granted to me by the new Gibson team brings authenticity back to Jimmy Wallace Guitars in a way I would have never imagined. I'm looking forward to the future with Gibson."
    Banker Custom Guitars, started by Matthew Hughes, was born out of his love for vintage guitars and old school American Craftsmanship. When it comes to guitars, Matthew thinks there is an element of magic, passion, and artistry that goes into creating a guitar. Everything Matthew creates is done using the methods employed during the advent of the electric guitar, by hand. He is obsessed with tone and classic designs. "Banker Guitars was conceived from a passion for the rugged, innovative spirit of the guitar craftsmen whose pioneering handwork inspired the advent of Rock and Roll," said Matthew Hughes. "Gibson's influence on the inception of electric guitar is deeply embedded in American history," adds Hughes. "We are honored and humbled to have the opportunity to partner with them and utilize their iconic electric guitar designs to further the legacy of quality, playability and artistry that has inspired the greatest music of generations past, present, and future."
    Echopark Guitars was conceived in 2008 when Gabriel Currie started to make his individual mark in the guitar building community by hand-crafting instruments for various players. Currie uses his hands, eyes and ears to select and build every part of every instrument. He prides himself on his knowledge of tones and the history of the finest guitars ever built. Each and every instrument that is created by Gabriel Currie and his team is the product of a deeply bred lineage of American craftsmanship. They are instruments built with love, pieces of art that have been coddled and cared for from their inception; he makes practical, dynamic tools that are second-to-none for making music. It's not a coincidence that Echopark Guitars is based in Detroit, Michigan, just hours away from Gibson's birthplace in Kalamazoo. "Everything that is perfect about the instrument had already been developed by Gibson long before any of us got here!" says Gabriel Currie. "My goal is to help preserve this legacy and take part in building inspiring instruments," adds Currie.
    Gibson has also announced that they have entered into multi-year collaboration agreements with Thalia Brands and Aviator Nation.
    Thalia Brands was conceived by Chris Bradley and his daughter Thalia in 2010 when 8-year old Thalia was playing guitar and envisioned a beautiful capo, one that would perfectly match the Hawaiian Koa & Abalone inlaid guitar she loved. Today, Thalia designs and manufactures a full range of guitar accessories and lifestyle products in their California studio. They are known for high quality, customer service and amazing custom inlay work. "Thalia and I have been longtime fans of Gibson," says Chris Bradley, Founder and CEO of Thalia Brands, Inc. "My favorite guitar is my 1938-Reissue Gibson SJ-200 and Thalia's is her Epiphone Hummingbird. The opportunity to collaborate with Gibson to create co-branded capos, phone cases and other high-quality accessories is a dream come true for us," adds Chris Bradley. "We have ambitious plans for the future as we extend our reach into other guitar accessory categories and this collaboration with Gibson will enable us to make even better products that Gibson Guitar fans will surely love".
    Aviator Nation is a 1970's inspired California lifestyle brand. It was born in Paige Mycoskie's garage in Venice Beach, 2006, and has since grown into a global lifestyle brand. Paige's passion for 1970's fashion and the music that defined that time period inspired her to create her own clothing stitched by hand. While working at a surf shop in Southern California, she purchased a sewing machine and spent nights after work teaching herself to sew, determined to create garments with the same look and feel of the vintage pieces she had been collecting for years. Paige believes in the universal power of music to unite people for positive change. Her garments are all handmade in California, in the Aviator Nation factory where each item is distressed to a degree of perfect imperfection, creating a one-of-a-kind piece. Keeping the garments Made in America is a core value of Aviator Nation which will be available late 2019.
    Over the last few months, Gibson has also entered into over 40 fee-free IP licenses in support of TV and movie productions, some of which are expected to become global feature film releases. "We are honored by the demand for use of our IP by renowned producers and directors around the world and we look forward to more collaborations with the creative industry," said Cesar Gueikian.
    For more information on Gibson, visit:
    GIBSON.COM | TWITTER | INSTAGRAM | FACEBOOK | YOUTUBE
    About Gibson:
    Gibson Brands, the world's most iconic guitar brand, has shaped the sounds of generations of musicians and music lovers across genres for more than 100 years. Founded in 1894 and headquartered in Nashville, TN, Gibson Brands has a legacy of world-class craftsmanship, legendary music partnerships and progressive product evolution that is unrivaled among musical instrument companies. The Gibson Brands portfolio includes Gibson, the number one guitar brand, as well as many of the most beloved and recognizable music brands, including Epiphone, Kramer, Steinberger and Gibson Pro Audio division brands Cerwin Vega, KRK Systems and Stanton. Gibson Brands is dedicated to quality, innovation and sound excellence so that music lovers for generations to come will continue to experience music shaped by Gibson Brands. Learn more at http://www.gibson.com and follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.
    SOURCE Gibson
    Last edited by jb_abides; 08-30-19 at 07:28 PM.

  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    OL, Michigan
    Posts
    59

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Gibson simply reigning in the builders who operate on the fringe of copyright /patent infringement. It's a form of flattering these builders into a licensing deal as a new source of revenue. (echoing what others have suggested).

    I would buy from Echo. Love their work. I also wondered how he was building and selling Flying Vs that were nearly exact copies of the real thing (and not getting busted). I think that activity was all part of an audition.

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Lost in the Ozarks [again]
    Posts
    42,167

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post
    Is everyone enjoying the dust up Joe B. and Echopark are having on Instagram?
    I haven't heard anything about it. Please give us the details.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,382

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I haven't heard anything about it. Please give us the details.
    Echopark posted a photo of one of their V builds (which was based on Joe's Amos) AND one of Joe's Epiphone Vs, with a caption of "REAL vs made in china" (something to that effect). Joe responded with this now deleted comment:



  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Blighty.
    Posts
    5,909

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    I wonder what the unendorsed and the endorsed Amos's have on the headstock?
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,382

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    I wonder what the unendorsed and the endorsed Amos's have on the headstock?
    The endorsed Amos had a Gibson logo which it was sold. But I've also seen a vid of Joe playing it without a logo. The unendorsed said Echopark.

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Blighty.
    Posts
    5,909

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    The endorsed Amos had a Gibson logo which it was sold. But I've also seen a vid of Joe playing it without a logo. The unendorsed said Echopark.
    So the endorsed fake Amos bore a Gibson logo when it was sold.

    And the person who both commissioned and endorsed the fake ( which magically in the space of a paragraph morphs from the descriptor of replica to fake) is taking issue with the faker, about another unendorsed fake.

    I seem to remember Mr Bonamassa commenting in the t-shirt C & D thread about the probity of Gibson trademark and their implicit right to defend it, and sharing the same opinion.

    Seems in action that doesn't necessarily apply. Mr Bonamassa may own Amos, but he doesn't own the right to have it copied with a Gibson logo, rendering it a fake...ie a non Gibson made guitar bearing a Gibson logo. Whatever the rationale for commissioning it in the first instance.

    Or in Orwellian fashion all infringements are equal, but some are more equal than others.

    Seems one can run with the hare and the hounds.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Lost in the Ozarks [again]
    Posts
    42,167

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Thanks Scott!
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  18. #18

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    So the endorsed fake Amos bore a Gibson logo when it was sold.

    And the person who both commissioned and endorsed the fake ( which magically in the space of a paragraph morphs from the descriptor of replica to fake) is taking issue with the faker, about another unendorsed fake.

    I seem to remember Mr Bonamassa commenting in the t-shirt C & D thread about the probity of Gibson trademark and their implicit right to defend it, and sharing the same opinion.

    Seems in action that doesn't necessarily apply. Mr Bonamassa may own Amos, but he doesn't own the right to have it copied with a Gibson logo, rendering it a fake...ie a non Gibson made guitar bearing a Gibson logo. Whatever the rationale for commissioning it in the first instance.

    Or in Orwellian fashion all infringements are equal, but some are more equal than others.

    Seems one can run with the hare and the hounds.
    Valid point. To provide some rationale for a defense: on other forums there's been mention Joe received permission to get this specific replica produced via Echopark after Custom Shop passed. OK, a bit wobbly to then sell it with Gibson logo in place - although it was CLEARLY identified as a celeb-owned fake/replica upon sale. I would've taken the logo off for the sale, perhaps slipped it into the case post-sale. Then again, nothing prohibits others from passing any replica off as legit downstream.

    To muddy the waters, it's been reported elsewhere [other fourms] that an inquiring customer alleged Echopark informed said to prospective customer EP would deliver a replica/fake WITH the Gibson logo affixed right out of their shop, which is NOT part of the public agreement -- at least per press release [and certainly not kosher in my book!]... Unless there's some partner agreement we aren't aware of; if there is, I would most certainly expect Gibson, Inc. to QC, warranty and provide customer service for such a thing.

    Therefore, one or more of these statements must be true:
    - Gibson have not [yet] publicized or been clear on the full scope of the partner program, and Gibson will authorize and stand behind subcontracted replicas identified as such
    - Gibson have not [yet] thought through all the dimensions and implications of this program
    - the prospective customer's reporting is unclear or mendacious
    - Echopark is engaging in dodgy business practices...

    Given widespread reporting of EP dubious quality and business tactics elsewhere, the lack of details in Gibson's presser, and the highly visible Joe B dust-up, -- this whole situation is shaping up to be a godawful mess. Surely, Gibson will get past it, perhaps tarnished. For EP, it'll be an uphill battle at best. Haters will lambast Joe, but he's a grown-up now. OK to call him out on things: for example others are dinging him for passing this on as a pump n' dump, without knowing what Joe B did to improve the guitar before he moved it on. I wonder if the whole truth regarding his Not Amos story is out... otherwise, he's drawing fire. I am not defending him, just envisioning all the areas which might fall in place, to give him the benefit of doubt RE charges of hypocrisy. For EP, on the other hand, there's a preponderance of evidence being submitted from hither and yon, and it doesn't trend well...

    My further SPECULATION is there's some EP/Agnesi backstory which led Gibson down the garden path, with EP's admittance into this program. Both were LA-based until recently, purveyors of vintage vibe, which probably eased EP's entrance into the partner program without enough due diligence. FFS, there needs to be some discretion on who you grant license, versus pursue to cease and desist, versus forcing them to change designs, take legal action, etc. There needs to be a strict rationale. You can't just let your lackluster bros in when you are trying to provide sound legal groundwork for IP protection...

    THIS IS THE AREA I HAVE MOST ISSUE WITH IF TRUE, as it highlights further weaknesses in the new management team, when folks are pulling for the new Gibson to hit it hard, and trend better.

    Seriously, there are folks elsewhere saying bring back HJ.
    I never though he was the boogeyman others did, nor did I agree with all his moves. I credit him for bringing back the company and producing some great instruments on his watch. Likewise, I remain hopeful the new crew will get their act together -- but SMH at rookie mistakes.

    It just doesn't illustrate the thoughtfulness, care, and business acumen most expect from the premier guitar brand we envision Gibson to be. And this may be the issue. Many, arguably most companies these days are more hapless than skilled, and the benchmarks have slackened. Sigh.

    This whole deal is to build a strategy for Gibson's IP protection, licensing, and alternative revenue streams, which aren't necessarily bad -- but I fervently hope they put this much effort into taking the Custom Shop and its offerings to the next level!!!


    Last edited by jb_abides; 08-31-19 at 04:12 PM.

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Blighty.
    Posts
    5,909

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    jb_abides, rather than directly quote your thoughtful narrative out of context to make my own points, I'd much rather thank you for your opinion, particularly the penultimate paragraph, and not drag you, by inference, into what I'm about to say.

    Fakes.

    The elephant that haunts this small room of interest which we share.

    I abhor them, I abhor the arrogance of them, I abhor the presumption of their very existence. I abhor the haughtiness of those that think, because they're "holding", they can do as they wish.

    Follow the money, that'll show you how facile the claims of protecting the "legacy" of these iconic guitars actually is. I have zero confidence in the self appointed keepers of the flame (sic) no names, no pack drill - if that cap fits, wear it.

    One cannot throw half a cap into the ring, you're either what you say you are, or just another chancer that thinks they can do as they wish as long as they get paid.

    This game gets nastier and more sordid by the hypocritical, censored minute.

    Balloons are going down everywhere.

    And to quote, Keats I believe..."fuck it..."
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    1,236

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jb_abides View Post
    My further SPECULATION is there's some EP/Agnesi backstory which led Gibson down the garden path, with EP's admittance into this program.
    Ah hah! *Light Bulb Goes Off*

    That would make a lot of sense, though it is still speculation at this point that story comes together like PB&J.




    I exhausted myself on this topic elsewhere, as can be seen, lol. But, bottom line is I had to pick up the mantle cause it seemed many of those who reprimand the use of logos where they don't belong were mysteriously absent on the internetz, which I thought was very strange. Massive respect for the consistency of many of you on this board.

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Blighty.
    Posts
    5,909

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    This discussion is also in the wrong section.

    No Gibson made guitars featured.
    Last edited by ourmaninthenorth; 09-01-19 at 05:02 PM.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,382

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    This discussion is also in the wrong section.

    No Gibson made guitars featured.

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member Norton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    10

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    I just saw that the "not Amos" flying V in question will be on the block at heritage auctions in Oct:

    https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/vin...ription-071515

    Still sporting it's Gibson logo and has a letter from Joe included.

  24. #24

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
    LOL, that's exactly what I thought!

  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Some place between bad wood & good wood
    Posts
    2,329

    Re: Gibson returns to Michigan?!!!

    I spent the time reading all , The faith was gone when these clowns convinced a guy his firebird would be a better guitar with a set neck & no wings .

    Disclaimer : Ive owned & own several & many Firebirds . I know different ........!!!!!
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Scroll Down And Click On All Of Our Sponsors' Logos For Their Websites!






i