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Gibson ES construction with figured maple

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
I've never seen anything on this subject.
I notice that with the 2019 ES models with figured wood, Gibson mentioned they are "veneer"
https://youtu.be/3iO0l2u-wcA
I also went to the Gibson site and see as far back as 2014 they mention "veneer" for the figured ES models. They are all spec'd with 3 ply maple/poplar/maple.

My question is this: Do the figured models all have a flame veneer on top of the top ply of maple? Or is the top ply entirely flame maple?
I assume(?) veneers are much more thin than a "ply" of the 3-ply used. And I also assume Gibson would not use the term "veneer" if they didn't mean it literally.
I don't need anyone's guesses, as I can guess myself.
Does anyone know for sure what they use?




 

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
No, your later statement is correct, the top ply is the figure you see.
You very well may be correct. I had always assumed so. If so, why does Gibson call it veneer? Is a ply as thick as used on an ES accurately called a veneer? How thick is each ply?

The "correct" answer to my question should be able to be quantified.
 

Big Al

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Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
It's called a veneer because it is. It also avoids assumptions about solid wood. Veneers are not paper thin or a regulation size. I've made 3 ply maple/mahogany/figured maple veneer 3 ply pickguards that matched 335 ply size.
 

wmachine

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Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
It's called a veneer because it is. It also avoids assumptions about solid wood. Veneers are not paper thin or a regulation size. I've made 3 ply maple/mahogany/figured maple veneer 3 ply pickguards that matched 335 ply size.

Thanks, but again, I want to quantify the answer. What is veneer? Most info I find on guitar veneers are Typically in the .3-.6mm range. That is too thin for the top ply, I believe. I've never heard of a top ply of plywood referred to as veneer. Doesn't mean it is not so, just not anything I've run across.

I'd ask Gibson, but I'm not sure they'd be forthcoming with answers on this. I would think they would simply say the top ply is flamed maple if it was, not use the term veneer. As paper thin as some guitar veneers are, I have doubts they'd use that term if the whole top ply was flame maple.
Again, not saying it is not.
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,274
You very well may be correct. I had always assumed so. If so, why does Gibson call it veneer? Is a ply as thick as used on an ES accurately called a veneer? How thick is each ply?

The "correct" answer to my question should be able to be quantified.

To be clear, definitionally, a ply is an application of a veneer. Hence plywood is the result of layered veneer wood known as 'plys' in the context of its application. The broader categorization is the ply being a type of veneer.

Further, there is no absolute quantification of any layered veneer, beyond per application specifications. Gibson ES has their own. Plywood manufacturing has a standard. And so forth....

:salude
 

musekatcher

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Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
135
Not sure if this helps, or is adhered to, but "laminate" and "lamina", as well as "plywood" and "plies" are structural terms, used to describe a structural system or structural materials, construction, design, etc. "Veneer" is more often a furniture term, or ornamental term, associated with décor, appearance, etc. With guitars, I would consider most tops to be laminates or plywood constructed of lamina and plies. Some guitars may have a veneer of decorative wood to improve appearance.

I think Fender had some sandwich construction telecasters that had a core of block wood, maybe 1.25" thick, with a layer top and back of 3/4" wood. They then, covered both the top and back with another 1/8" of clear Maple veneer, so they look like they are made of one piece of solid Maple, but really are made of 5 layers, 3 of which are structural, and 2 of which are decorative.
 

DOTMKR

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Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
16
The veneer for a modern laminated guitar top and back made by Gibson is like this. Three plays are used. The show veneer is 0.06 inch thick maple, the middle layer is poplar and the grain runs crosswise with a thickness of about 0.07 inch and the inside layer is 0.06 maple. Give or take a few bazillionths.
 
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