Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

CAGinLA · Aug 29, 2019

You can only sell so many of these when they are almost exclusively being purchased by the same small pool of wealthy customers.

J T · Aug 29, 2019

Wealthy is a relative term.

:rolleyes

F-Hole · Aug 30, 2019

Pip said:
Another thing that always got me was their inconsistency with hardware ageing (see fender custom shop for how to do it). I accept you never going to get similar tops - ball park yes is the best you can expect. But I’ve seen nickys with aged pup covers and poles my pup covers look brand new, so quality control and ageing were suspect.

Most, if not all, CC guitars were aged by third parties outside the Gibson factory (and one in particular). I have photos of one of the Ralphs production run getting the good news.

marshall1987 · Aug 30, 2019

F-Hole said:
.....and let's not forget those CC original guitar owners who were stiffed by Gibson when they went into Chapter 11. All outstanding royalty payments as of that date went up in smoke.

The whole process was a royal pain in the ass and, IMHO, the guitars were anything but "choice".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the CC models sold out and completed by the time Gibson filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy? That being the case, many of the original owners who collaborated with Gibson more than likely received timely royalty payments. And we're not talking about huge sums of money here either.

sws1 · Aug 30, 2019

F-Hole said:
Most, if not all, CC guitars were aged by third parties outside the Gibson factory (and one in particular). I have photos of one of the Ralphs production run getting the good news.

Did not know that. I was lead to believe it was done in the area of the shop with the 10 or so 'aging' people.

marshall1987 · Aug 30, 2019

And in addition to royalty payments from Gibson for each CC model sold, the original owners also were compensated with a brand new CC Les Paul, and in some cases a prototype. Right there that's two CC guitars provided as compensation for participating in the CC program.

Tom Wittrock · Aug 31, 2019

sws1 said:
Did not know that. I was lead to believe it was done in the area of the shop with the 10 or so 'aging' people.

Mine were done in house. Never heard a mention of them being done elsewhere. :ganz

F-Hole · Aug 31, 2019

Tom Wittrock said:
Mine were done in house. Never heard a mention of them being done elsewhere. :ganz

Oh, they didn't "mention" it to me either Tom.....but I've seen it. You saw all 300 being built and aged?

Predictably, Gibson stiffed the external guys doing the work...........so, guitars sold, builders not paid, CC owners not paid.

It's the American dream!

F-Hole · Aug 31, 2019

marshall1987 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the CC models sold out and completed by the time Gibson filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy? That being the case, many of the original owners who collaborated with Gibson more than likely received timely royalty payments. And we're not talking about huge sums of money here either.

Payments were, if memory serves, to be remitted quarterly. In general it was $100/guitar, most runs limited to 300 (although I have a vague memory that they lied to Tom about numbers produced on Sandy). That's $30k.....rather in my pocket than theirs, and not entirely insignificant to most. The early CC runs were probably paid out in full, but that's certainly not the case for the later runs.

In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!

So, Gibson shafted some CC original guitar owners, shafted third party builders, shafted "celebs" names used for branding, produced generally crap guitars that bear no real resemblance to the original..........and kept all the money.

As Mark Agnesi would probably say, "Let's keep it real Gibson".

Arnold M. · Aug 31, 2019

F-Hole said:
Payments were, if memory serves, to be remitted quarterly. In general it was $100/guitar, most runs limited to 300 (although I have a vague memory that they lied to Tom about numbers produced on Sandy). That's $30k.....rather in my pocket than theirs, and not entirely insignificant to most. The early CC runs were probably paid out in full, but that's certainly not the case for the later runs.

In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!

So, Gibson shafted some CC original guitar owners, shafted third party builders, shafted "celebs" names used for branding, produced generally crap guitars that bear no real resemblance to the original..........and kept all the money.

As Mark Agnesi would probably say, "Let's keep it real Gibson".

Sadly, Mark Agnesi's mindless parroting adds zero to Gibson's credibility, he comes across as a hired mouthpiece and nothing else, maybe the younger kids admire him but I personally loathe his arrogant manner

ourmaninthenorth · Aug 31, 2019

F-Hole said:
Payments were, if memory serves, to be remitted quarterly. In general it was $100/guitar, most runs limited to 300 (although I have a vague memory that they lied to Tom about numbers produced on Sandy). That's $30k.....rather in my pocket than theirs, and not entirely insignificant to most. The early CC runs were probably paid out in full, but that's certainly not the case for the later runs.

In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!

So, Gibson shafted some CC original guitar owners, shafted third party builders, shafted "celebs" names used for branding, produced generally crap guitars that bear no real resemblance to the original..........and kept all the money.

As Mark Agnesi would probably say, "Let's keep it real Gibson".

So, my oft repeated question in relation to Gibson's new dawn little house on the prairie, everything's coming up roses etc etc ad nausea nonsense..." who didn't get paid...? " is finally answered.

A laugh a minute this eh Lads?

sws1 · Aug 31, 2019

ourmaninthenorth said:
So, my oft repeated question in relation to Gibson's new dawn little house on the prairie, everything's coming up roses etc etc ad nausea nonsense..." who didn't get paid...? " is finally answered.

A laugh a minute this eh Lads?

That's the upside/downside of Chapter 11 bankruptcy...depending on which side of the fence you are on.

ourmaninthenorth · Aug 31, 2019

sws1 said:
That's the upside/downside of Chapter 11 bankruptcy...depending on which side of the fence you are on.

I'm most assuredly on the bollocks to Gibson side of the fence.

They literally couldn't give me a guitar.

I'm choosy in who's company I keep.

marshall1987 · Aug 31, 2019

Arnold M. said:
Sadly, Mark Agnesi's mindless parroting adds zero to Gibson's credibility, he comes across as a hired mouthpiece and nothing else, maybe the younger kids admire him but I personally loathe his arrogant manner

Help me understand what role, if any, Mark Agnesi had/has in the overdue royalty payments owed to the original owners of certain Collector's Choice Les Pauls?

And I would add that Mark Agnesi's new job with Gibson requires that he support the senior leadership and managers within the organization. It goes without saying... Mark is not free to publicly belittle, ridicule, deride, or mock Gibson corporate policies, objectives, goals, and programs. Obviously he can not speak badly of or discredit past and present Gibson management decisions. Let me ask you this...would you publicly deride or mock your employer?

I don't get all the butt hurt over Mark Agnesi. He had a long and successful career at Norm's. I'm just guessing, but It sounds like you have a personal gripe with Mark over a past transaction when he worked at Norm's. :dang

hanban · Aug 31, 2019

So with regards to actuall quality of these CC guitars, what would you guys recommend for someone looking to get one of these, are they really worth the average 8000 usd price tag? They cost as much as true historic murphy aged guitars, and it makes me wonder if they live up to that monster price tag, or I am basically getting an inflated historic with some random aging

Tom Wittrock · Aug 31, 2019

hanban said:
So with regards to actuall quality of these CC guitars, what would you guys recommend for someone looking to get one of these, are they really worth the average 8000 usd price tag? They cost as much as true historic murphy aged guitars, and it makes me wonder if they live up to that monster price tag, or I am basically getting an inflated historic with some random aging

Just play any you come across and if one speaks to you, go for it.

I have completely fallen in love with my Donna copy [#5] and have played it at almost every gig for about a year now.
It is exceptional! :yah

And of course, the pickguard sticker is off it. :ganz

Phatcat · Aug 31, 2019

Agree with Tom, if you found one that you love the sound/tone then go for it, so what if it's overpriced.

AA00475Bassman · Aug 31, 2019

I like these CC's I will be buying one !

marshall1987 · Aug 31, 2019

TW's CC Donna (in the photo above) just blows me away. That figured maple top is exceptional. There are New York City models who aren't that pretty! :hee

deytookerjaabs · Sep 1, 2019

F-Hole said:
In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!

Okay, of all the things stated here this would piss me off to no end.

Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member