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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I know the past couple of years has seen the True Historic line and Collectors Choice line discontinued

    So what's really the reason for closing down the CC line

    Obviously they did not sell well. no one stops doing something if it makes them money. but were there others reasons?

    From what I gather quality wise its your normal historic line (pre 2015 CC did not even have true historic features which comes standard in 2018-2019 historics) , at 10-12k. so you pay the extra 6k for the work they put in making it look like the original relic/top wise?

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I really do not share your opinion for one IMO glue does not make a guitar nor does carve or plastics or no tube on truss rod .
    The CC guitars Ive played are killer how much better then the Historics I own owned well this is very subjective .
    Some members of the forum have original guitars that Gibson chose to CC Tom might chime in and articulate CC builds & the demise .
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

  3. #3
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I had a CC run of 8-7049. The CC guitars are so far from the original as to make the exercise pointless. The only thing even remotely "right" is the colour.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  4. #4
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Guessing a bit...The CC line was very expensive and the guitars did not have the long neck tennon. I have a feeling the long neck tennon adds about $20.00 to the cost of any given LP. But, at the time the difference in price was considerable with both the CC and True Historics well out of reach for me.

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I think it was shut down to manage the perception that they were diluting. Look at the comments here whenever a new one was announced..."Hey look...ANOTHER CC we didn't ask for".

    Even the CCs runs that sold 60 or 70 guitars are very profitable. Obviously not as profitable as those that sold a full 300, but given the margin on them, they were making lots of money.

    I was happy with the guitars they did for 9-0676. I played a bunch, and while not spot-on, they were 'in the neighborhood'. Part of me would be bummed if they built a 100% perfect replica. ;)

    And yes, it had a long tenon.

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    I think it was shut down to manage the perception that they were diluting. Look at the comments here whenever a new one was announced..."Hey look...ANOTHER CC we didn't ask for".

    Even the CCs runs that sold 60 or 70 guitars are very profitable. Obviously not as profitable as those that sold a full 300, but given the margin on them, they were making lots of money.

    I was happy with the guitars they did for 9-0676. I played a bunch, and while not spot-on, they were 'in the neighborhood'. Part of me would be bummed if they built a 100% perfect replica. ;)

    And yes, it had a long tenon.
    Didn't all CC have long tenon ? I always assumed they did !
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

  7. #7
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    I think it was shut down to manage the perception that they were diluting. Look at the comments here whenever a new one was announced..."Hey look...ANOTHER CC we didn't ask for".

    Even the CCs runs that sold 60 or 70 guitars are very profitable. Obviously not as profitable as those that sold a full 300, but given the margin on them, they were making lots of money.

    I was happy with the guitars they did for 9-0676. I played a bunch, and while not spot-on, they were 'in the neighborhood'. Part of me would be bummed if they built a 100% perfect replica. ;)

    And yes, it had a long tenon.

    Prices for CC are all over the place, you can get a Nicky for 5.5K and someone else lists them 11k. same for most of these CC models.
    not sure about how well they retain resale value

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    A Sandy sold locally for 7000.00 I played the guitar liked everything about the guitar felt 7 was high 6 would be more like my comfort zone .
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member KS 5150's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by AA00475Bassman View Post
    Didn't all CC have long tenon ? I always assumed they did !
    Yes, all of the Historic Reissues have long tenons. The only exception was the CS run in 2015.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member musekatcher's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    As a collector of several things, including archtops and flattops, I find almost all manufacturers have taken too many liberties with re-issues. The re-issue thing goes back 40 years, yet, they are still releasing "even more authentic" re-issues. Credibility has been shot for a long time. Its more than obvious, they will never release a definitively accurate, fully faithful re-issue: that would end all need for future production of the very lucrative re-issue, lol. What a game...

  11. #11
    Administrator MikeSlub's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    All good things must come to an end, including the CC series. It was the dream child of previous Gibson Custom leadership. It was a very successful lineup overall. It was an honor to participate with CC#6 early in the series.
    Mike Slubowski

    * "Gibson guitars are like potato chips - you can't have just one!"

    * "So many Gibsons to love, so little time..."

  12. #12

    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I think Gibson just released too many CCs in a short time period. They should have prolonged it and only offered two per year. That would have made them more desirable.
    Tim

  13. #13
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Agreed too many too quickly. I had a couple and kept Nicky as my go to.

    They were also wildly inconsistent in terms of tops, great guitars and mines a keeper, in fact I stopped looking for a new Lester, moved a few on and I'm happy with my only CC.

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member ff1337's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    Agreed too many too quickly. I had a couple and kept Nicky as my go to.

    They were also wildly inconsistent in terms of tops, great guitars and mines a keeper, in fact I stopped looking for a new Lester, moved a few on and I'm happy with my only CC.
    +1

  15. #15
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Here is my 2 cents , I believe that the maple tops are very hard to find exact matches to the original vintage instruments that they are crafted for , and thusly there are variations in looks on the tops . Trees are not knowing for knocking out exact reproductions of figure . Now that would be something cool if the guys in the lab could get big leaf maple and rock hard maple to come out in certain figures !

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I think the El loco El Gringo nailed the top syndrome, I’ve been shopping Rossingtons the tops & prices are all over the place . So inconsistent my wife now asks how the flame top syndrome is (like the China syndrome Babe)
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

  17. #17
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by AA00475Bassman View Post
    I think the El loco El Gringo nailed the top syndrome, I’ve been shopping Rossingtons the tops & prices are all over the place . So inconsistent my wife now asks how the flame top syndrome is (like the China syndrome Babe)
    You know what , I kind of like the El Loco El Gringo . Last week , I was addressed as El Kabongo and made me think back fondly on my school days . I most certainly am El Loco for Les Paul's and recent activity can most certainly prove that ! Top hunting is a most laborious duty , but the rewards are astronomical when you find the right one , and then KAPOW !!!!!!!

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I think the project had come to the end of it's natural life when, upon the next numbered release, people were uttering "who?"
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  19. #19
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    .....and let's not forget those CC original guitar owners who were stiffed by Gibson when they went into Chapter 11. All outstanding royalty payments as of that date went up in smoke.

    The whole process was a royal pain in the ass and, IMHO, the guitars were anything but "choice".
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  20. #20
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Another thing that always got me was their inconsistency with hardware ageing (see fender custom shop for how to do it). I accept you never going to get similar tops - ball park yes is the best you can expect. But I’ve seen nickys with aged pup covers and poles my pup covers look brand new, so quality control and ageing were suspect.

  21. #21
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    You can only sell so many of these when they are almost exclusively being purchased by the same small pool of wealthy customers.

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Wealthy is a relative term.

    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  23. #23
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    Another thing that always got me was their inconsistency with hardware ageing (see fender custom shop for how to do it). I accept you never going to get similar tops - ball park yes is the best you can expect. But I’ve seen nickys with aged pup covers and poles my pup covers look brand new, so quality control and ageing were suspect.
    Most, if not all, CC guitars were aged by third parties outside the Gibson factory (and one in particular). I have photos of one of the Ralphs production run getting the good news.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    .....and let's not forget those CC original guitar owners who were stiffed by Gibson when they went into Chapter 11. All outstanding royalty payments as of that date went up in smoke.

    The whole process was a royal pain in the ass and, IMHO, the guitars were anything but "choice".
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the CC models sold out and completed by the time Gibson filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy? That being the case, many of the original owners who collaborated with Gibson more than likely received timely royalty payments. And we're not talking about huge sums of money here either.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

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  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Most, if not all, CC guitars were aged by third parties outside the Gibson factory (and one in particular). I have photos of one of the Ralphs production run getting the good news.
    Did not know that. I was lead to believe it was done in the area of the shop with the 10 or so 'aging' people.

  26. #26
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    And in addition to royalty payments from Gibson for each CC model sold, the original owners also were compensated with a brand new CC Les Paul, and in some cases a prototype. Right there that's two CC guitars provided as compensation for participating in the CC program.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

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  27. #27
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    Did not know that. I was lead to believe it was done in the area of the shop with the 10 or so 'aging' people.
    Mine were done in house. Never heard a mention of them being done elsewhere.
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  28. #28
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Mine were done in house. Never heard a mention of them being done elsewhere.
    Oh, they didn't "mention" it to me either Tom.....but I've seen it. You saw all 300 being built and aged?

    Predictably, Gibson stiffed the external guys doing the work...........so, guitars sold, builders not paid, CC owners not paid.

    It's the American dream!
    Last edited by F-Hole; 08-30-19 at 07:52 PM.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  29. #29
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the CC models sold out and completed by the time Gibson filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy? That being the case, many of the original owners who collaborated with Gibson more than likely received timely royalty payments. And we're not talking about huge sums of money here either.
    Payments were, if memory serves, to be remitted quarterly. In general it was $100/guitar, most runs limited to 300 (although I have a vague memory that they lied to Tom about numbers produced on Sandy). That's $30k.....rather in my pocket than theirs, and not entirely insignificant to most. The early CC runs were probably paid out in full, but that's certainly not the case for the later runs.

    In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!

    So, Gibson shafted some CC original guitar owners, shafted third party builders, shafted "celebs" names used for branding, produced generally crap guitars that bear no real resemblance to the original..........and kept all the money.

    As Mark Agnesi would probably say, "Let's keep it real Gibson".
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  30. #30

    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Payments were, if memory serves, to be remitted quarterly. In general it was $100/guitar, most runs limited to 300 (although I have a vague memory that they lied to Tom about numbers produced on Sandy). That's $30k.....rather in my pocket than theirs, and not entirely insignificant to most. The early CC runs were probably paid out in full, but that's certainly not the case for the later runs.

    In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!

    So, Gibson shafted some CC original guitar owners, shafted third party builders, shafted "celebs" names used for branding, produced generally crap guitars that bear no real resemblance to the original..........and kept all the money.

    As Mark Agnesi would probably say, "Let's keep it real Gibson".
    Sadly, Mark Agnesi's mindless parroting adds zero to Gibson's credibility, he comes across as a hired mouthpiece and nothing else, maybe the younger kids admire him but I personally loathe his arrogant manner

  31. #31
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Payments were, if memory serves, to be remitted quarterly. In general it was $100/guitar, most runs limited to 300 (although I have a vague memory that they lied to Tom about numbers produced on Sandy). That's $30k.....rather in my pocket than theirs, and not entirely insignificant to most. The early CC runs were probably paid out in full, but that's certainly not the case for the later runs.

    In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!

    So, Gibson shafted some CC original guitar owners, shafted third party builders, shafted "celebs" names used for branding, produced generally crap guitars that bear no real resemblance to the original..........and kept all the money.

    As Mark Agnesi would probably say, "Let's keep it real Gibson".
    So, my oft repeated question in relation to Gibson's new dawn little house on the prairie, everything's coming up roses etc etc ad nausea nonsense..." who didn't get paid...? " is finally answered.

    A laugh a minute this eh Lads?
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  32. #32
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    So, my oft repeated question in relation to Gibson's new dawn little house on the prairie, everything's coming up roses etc etc ad nausea nonsense..." who didn't get paid...? " is finally answered.

    A laugh a minute this eh Lads?
    That's the upside/downside of Chapter 11 bankruptcy...depending on which side of the fence you are on.

  33. #33
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    That's the upside/downside of Chapter 11 bankruptcy...depending on which side of the fence you are on.
    I'm most assuredly on the bollocks to Gibson side of the fence.

    They literally couldn't give me a guitar.

    I'm choosy in who's company I keep.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  34. #34
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold M. View Post
    Sadly, Mark Agnesi's mindless parroting adds zero to Gibson's credibility, he comes across as a hired mouthpiece and nothing else, maybe the younger kids admire him but I personally loathe his arrogant manner
    Help me understand what role, if any, Mark Agnesi had/has in the overdue royalty payments owed to the original owners of certain Collector's Choice Les Pauls?

    And I would add that Mark Agnesi's new job with Gibson requires that he support the senior leadership and managers within the organization. It goes without saying... Mark is not free to publicly belittle, ridicule, deride, or mock Gibson corporate policies, objectives, goals, and programs. Obviously he can not speak badly of or discredit past and present Gibson management decisions. Let me ask you this...would you publicly deride or mock your employer?

    I don't get all the butt hurt over Mark Agnesi. He had a long and successful career at Norm's. I'm just guessing, but It sounds like you have a personal gripe with Mark over a past transaction when he worked at Norm's.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

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  35. #35
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    So with regards to actuall quality of these CC guitars, what would you guys recommend for someone looking to get one of these, are they really worth the average 8000 usd price tag? They cost as much as true historic murphy aged guitars, and it makes me wonder if they live up to that monster price tag, or I am basically getting an inflated historic with some random aging

  36. #36
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanban View Post
    So with regards to actuall quality of these CC guitars, what would you guys recommend for someone looking to get one of these, are they really worth the average 8000 usd price tag? They cost as much as true historic murphy aged guitars, and it makes me wonder if they live up to that monster price tag, or I am basically getting an inflated historic with some random aging
    Just play any you come across and if one speaks to you, go for it.

    I have completely fallen in love with my Donna copy [#5] and have played it at almost every gig for about a year now.
    It is exceptional!






    And of course, the pickguard sticker is off it.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

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  37. #37

    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Agree with Tom, if you found one that you love the sound/tone then go for it, so what if it's overpriced.

  38. #38
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    I like these CC's I will be buying one !
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

  39. #39
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    TW's CC Donna (in the photo above) just blows me away. That figured maple top is exceptional. There are New York City models who aren't that pretty!
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
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  40. #40
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: Why did Gibson close down the "Collectors Choice" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    In my case, I directed that Gibson pay Mick Ralphs 100% of production royalties (it's his name they used, so it seemed appropriate).............he's still waiting!




    Okay, of all the things stated here this would piss me off to no end.

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