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  1. #1

    Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Basketcase if there ever was one, or fun project maybe, but at $1,500 it's A-OK I guess.. (not mine though, and more likely a '64)

    https://reverb.com/item/26060766-gib...show_sold=true


  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    An interesting beater. But I wouldn't call it a basket case, especially if it is "ready to play" as it appears to be. I'd but it if it was cheap enough. But $1500 is not nearly cheap enough.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Not such a bad price for a set of pickups, wiring harness, tuners, and braz fretboard.
    Plus whatever is left of that body...

  4. #4

    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by fakejake View Post
    Not such a bad price for a set of pickups, wiring harness, tuners, and braz fretboard.
    Plus whatever is left of that body...
    Belongs in a dog's home.

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member Red Rogue's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    I hope that you can get it back in shape!


    - Blues is the road -

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Freakin' 80's.

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Oh the humanity....

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    I would guess the Bigsby wasn't dive bomby enough.
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by crashbelt View Post
    Belongs in a dog's home.
    All I can say about that is............woof.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Turdelicious.

    In a really turdful way.


  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Looks like that guitar has the wide F-holes common to post 1967 Gibson ES-3XX guitars! I doubt it's a 1962.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
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  12. #12

    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Oh dear God, why? WHY?!?!?!?!?!

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member maxcarp709's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Arggggh! Now I need Mind Bleach!

  14. #14

    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    Looks like that guitar has the wide F-holes common to post 1967 Gibson ES-3XX guitars! I doubt it's a 1962.
    Agree. The guitar was over priced.

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member OKGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    Looks like that guitar has the wide F-holes common to post 1967 Gibson ES-3XX guitars! I doubt it's a 1962.
    Nope. Those look to me like the narrow f-holes but the body shape says 64-67. The ears are rounder in 68 (when the bigger f-holes started).
    It would be unusual for a 345 to have the pointy ears and the big f-holes but not impossible. Show me the nut and the headstock and I'll nail down the year.

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member GuitarMikey's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Click the link in the original post. The headstock inlay position looks 66 or earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by OKGuitar View Post
    Nope. Those look to me like the narrow f-holes but the body shape says 64-67. The ears are rounder in 68 (when the bigger f-holes started).
    It would be unusual for a 345 to have the pointy ears and the big f-holes but not impossible. Show me the nut and the headstock and I'll nail down the year.
    GuitarMikey

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Geez that guitar is chopped badly! It has a replacement headstock grafted on around the 3rd or 4th fret. The back is cut out too! The pickups are pooched. I wouldn't give $500 for that thing.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
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  18. #18

    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    Geez that guitar is chopped badly! It has a replacement headstock grafted on around the 3rd or 4th fret. The back is cut out too! The pickups are pooched. I wouldn't give $500 for that thing.
    A mess indeed, but worth the sale price IMO. The grafted headstock is actually the only pro looking 'repair' done on it - the stamped '64 serial number also seems to correspond to the remaining visible digits on the orange label.

    I would have the front and back holes patched up plus a total refin in aged black. This could be a great gigging guitar.


    Agreed though - this really HURTS..


  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch D. Bunker View Post
    And it had a Strat style trem before this.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

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  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    What define's this guitar age , state of alteration , price , considerations of vintage allure ?

    One thing absolute shame what has happened over the years , to list a old used altered to this point guitar & have interest & a sale wow!!!
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by AA00475Bassman View Post
    What define's this guitar age , state of alteration , price , considerations of vintage allure ?

    One thing absolute shame what has happened over the years , to list a old used altered to this point guitar & have interest & a sale wow!!!
    I think it is pretty simple. It is either serviceable or not. By serviceable, I mean can it be used with minimal work. Its not junk if it can be used.
    It is not unusual (or an absolute shame) for guys to try all kinds of things with their guitars. Eddie Van Halen carved up his all the time. Have you ever seen Brad Gillis's original Fender Strat? He bought it as a box of parts. Carved it up over the years enough to make a groundhog jealous.

    Sorry, but I see nothing "wrong" here. I see *real* wear and tear, not a fake relic.
    Last edited by wmachine; 07-16-19 at 10:51 AM.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    I see someone who wanted a different guitar, but instead of spending money to actually get a guitar that more suited their needs, decided to spend money to booger up that one.

    On the other hand, since the headstock was broken, they might have just decided why not it's already screwed up.
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    I'd be embarrassed to show up at a paying gig with that guitar. It doesn't really inspire confidence or communicate a positive impression.......
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
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  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    I'd be embarrassed to show up at a paying gig with that guitar. It doesn't really inspire confidence or communicate a positive impression.......
    Okay, if that's the way you feel. One needs to get their confidence where they can find it.

    But I don't get it. What happened to real confidence? What happened to the rock & roll "I don't give a @#$ what you think, this is me".
    Has self conscientiousness eroded the classic rock & roll self confidence? Is this why so much new music sucks?
    One might as well put their guitar on a stand, hit the play button on a prerecording and walk off the stage. And go look for one's balls.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  25. #25

    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Confidence, truth in presentation, authentic play wear, etc. not withstanding, the body ear shape is incorrect for any '62 I have seen (I personally have owned both a 335 and 345 from 1962). The f hole shape is NOT the wide style to my eye: I think the finish wear on the treble side f hole is slightly creating that optical illusion...look carefully at the more unmolested bass side f hole. The plastic control knobs are definitely post '66, but those are so easily changed, it is of no consequence. Without seeing the guitar in person, I am just guessing, but the body/ear shape suggests late '63 through '65 vintage, with the correct higher flower pot inlay on the headstock. The spliced neck kills value, but with the other "personalized modifications", probably doesn't really detract all that much, in context of everything else. If you like the general playing feel/neck profile, it could be a worthy restoration project, especially if refinished in an opaque color. The wood cavities can be repaired/filled. Just depends if it is worth it to you personally to pay for the substantial $ repairs. Good luck.
    Last edited by reddeluxe; 07-17-19 at 08:08 PM.

  26. #26
    Les Paul Forum Member jrgtr42's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    OUch. that one hurts.
    However, if it is a good player, and could be got for a better price, under a grand off the top of my head, it might be worth it as a restoration piece.
    Dump the trem, and the matching locking nut.
    Fill the holes, set up with period-correct bridge and tailpiece (maybe go for a Bigsby?)
    full on refin, maybe some subtle relicing, you may have something.
    Problem is, how would it sound now, and what difference if that mass is put back?
    ********************************
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    "It is if you don't drop it."
    - Trent Lane, Daria, Episode 1-2.

  27. #27
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by jrgtr42 View Post
    OUch. that one hurts.
    However, if it is a good player, and could be got for a better price, under a grand off the top of my head, it might be worth it as a restoration piece.
    Dump the trem, and the matching locking nut.
    Fill the holes, set up with period-correct bridge and tailpiece (maybe go for a Bigsby?)
    full on refin, maybe some subtle relicing, you may have something.
    Problem is, how would it sound now, and what difference if that mass is put back?
    Now wait a minute. First, I'll say my disclaimer, and state the I think relicing is one of the stupidest charades ever in the guitar world.
    That said, I see a new low now:
    Fully refinish a guitar and add relicing????????????????
    Ruin the original real genuinely worn (by refinishing) and replace it with a fake worn finish??????????

    Sorry, but that just beats all.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  28. #28
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Is that label inside the body that faded????

    Okay, I went to the auction and saw he pics. Yes, the headstock is grafted on and is from the early ‘70’s, imho. It looks to be a good graft job. The label in the body was an orange oval, but the number in the picture is indecipherable, so I have no idea when the body was built. It appears that someone spent a lot of time keeping this guitar going in some fashion according to what they wanted to do with it.
    I am going to think it was played a lot by someone who enjoyed it. FWIW, looking at the bridge saddles, it appears that the player also was concerned about intonation.
    I know of on of those limited edition The Les Pauls with the rosewood knobs, pickup surrounds, the oval mother of pearl Ltd Ed number on the back of the hadsock, and super flame maple everywhere. The fellow got it for his high school graduation back in the day.his first wife surprised him for his birthday...lathe had a Kahler installed in that fantastic maple top....the hole was gouged out with a chisel...not that that matters, right?
    Last edited by Wally; 07-18-19 at 03:43 PM.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  29. #29
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    Okay, if that's the way you feel. One needs to get their confidence where they can find it.

    But I don't get it. What happened to real confidence? What happened to the rock & roll "I don't give a @#$ what you think, this is me".
    Has self conscientiousness eroded the classic rock & roll self confidence? Is this why so much new music sucks?
    One might as well put their guitar on a stand, hit the play button on a prerecording and walk off the stage. And go look for one's balls.
    You're barking up the wrong tree chief. Who the hell are you to cast dispersions at me? You don't know me or my background. Apparently you have too much free time on your hands. You got nothing better to do than cast dispersions at long-time forum members? Does that build you up?

    I never said I approached music like Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughn!, or other players that carve up perfectly good guitars. My roots are firmly planted in the 1960s and 1970s. And I have no lack of self confidence as you alluded. Perhaps that's an issue with you?

    I couldn't even begin to discuss "new music". I don't care for computer music whatsoever.

    Lastly, I'm not here to win a popularity contest with basement Internet wookies, so I stand by what I said previously.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  30. #30
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Sheesh, at one time these were just tools and cheap, used guitars. I've unfortunately seen much worse. Who are we to judge?

  31. #31
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    You're barking up the wrong tree chief. Who the hell are you to cast dispersions at me? You don't know me or my background. Apparently you have too much free time on your hands. You got nothing better to do than cast dispersions at long-time forum members? Does that build you up?

    I never said I approached music like Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughn!, or other players that carve up perfectly good guitars. My roots are firmly planted in the 1960s and 1970s. And I have no lack of self confidence as you alluded. Perhaps that's an issue with you?

    I couldn't even begin to discuss "new music". I don't care for computer music whatsoever.

    Lastly, I'm not here to win a popularity contest with basement Internet wookies, so I stand by what I said previously.
    Sorry you got your feeling hurt. Super defensive for someone who doesn't care. You weren't even attacked. I just pointed out your point of view isn't shared with some others.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  32. #32

    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    This object has clearly been sent to us as a metaphor for the state of contemporary society. We must reflect upon the lessons it teaches us

  33. #33
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by crashbelt View Post
    This object has clearly been sent to us as a metaphor for the state of contemporary society. We must reflect upon the lessons it teaches us
    Ah, yes indeed. And to that end: "It is better to wear out than rust out"
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  34. #34
    Les Paul Forum Member jrgtr42's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    Now wait a minute. First, I'll say my disclaimer, and state the I think relicing is one of the stupidest charades ever in the guitar world.
    That said, I see a new low now:
    Fully refinish a guitar and add relicing????????????????
    Ruin the original real genuinely worn (by refinishing) and replace it with a fake worn finish??????????

    Sorry, but that just beats all.
    I hear what you're saying.... I don't know that I'd necessarily add the relicing, (notice I did say MAYBE)
    But for many people, who want to show that it's an old guitar, they'd want to have some of it on there.
    Personally, if it was me, I would want to fill those holes with as close a match to the original wood as I could get,
    refin with a stain - how dark would depend on the matching of the grain, and a thin lacquer finish.
    Any relicing - ding, dents, scratches etc, would be come through naturally.
    IF I was doing it to sell, I 'd relic it. There are lots of buyers who wouldn't want a vintage guitar that looked that pristine - not a player, anyway - yeah, museum pieces, etc.
    ********************************
    "Do you call sleeping with a guitar in your hands practicing?"
    "It is if you don't drop it."
    - Trent Lane, Daria, Episode 1-2.

  35. #35
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    That said, I see a new low now:
    Fully refinish a guitar and add relicing????????????????
    New? A "low"? Not hardly.

    I watched it done in the early 70s. Nice restoration finish on a worn vintage guitar. Relicing was perfectly appropriate, as it still can be today.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  36. #36
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    New? A "low"? Not hardly.

    I watched it done in the early 70s. Nice restoration finish on a worn vintage guitar. Relicing was perfectly appropriate, as it still can be today.
    Okay, then a old return to a lower low. Just to be clear, you mean that guitar was refinished (common, yes) and *then* reliced? That's what I'm referring to here. Even if it was, I don't why that makes it appropriate.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  37. #37
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    Okay, then a old return to a lower low. Just to be clear, you mean that guitar was refinished (common, yes) and *then* reliced? That's what I'm referring to here. Even if it was, I don't why that makes it appropriate.
    You keep engaging posted opinion's ridiculous !!
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

  38. #38
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    Okay, then a old return to a lower low. Just to be clear, you mean that guitar was refinished (common, yes) and *then* reliced? That's what I'm referring to here. Even if it was, I don't why that makes it appropriate.
    Yes. It was common even back then to do refins on vintage Fender bodies [with worn original finish neck] that were already refined poorly. Do a two tone burst and enough simple aging to make it match the neck. In other words, not a shiny new finish. It was restoration work. Like redoing 50's Goldtops. You don't want that refin to stand out as "new".
    Same with conversions, even back in the early 70s.

    As for people doing it to their modern guitars?
    It's merely personal taste.
    There are hacks, and artists. And everything in between.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  39. #39

    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    You're barking up the wrong tree chief. Who the hell are you to cast dispersions at me? You don't know me or my background. Apparently you have too much free time on your hands. You got nothing better to do than cast dispersions at long-time forum members? Does that build you up?

    I never said I approached music like Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughn!, or other players that carve up perfectly good guitars. My roots are firmly planted in the 1960s and 1970s. And I have no lack of self confidence as you alluded. Perhaps that's an issue with you?

    I couldn't even begin to discuss "new music". I don't care for computer music whatsoever.

    Lastly, I'm not here to win a popularity contest with basement Internet wookies, so I stand by what I said previously.
    Yay for standing up to that BS!!! I own several very different guitars and I play very different styles on nearly all of them. Maybe that's why there is more than one type of guitar in the world. Hahaha! I completely understand the "confidence quote" I just call it "Mojo" When I pick up a guitar, I quickly go into mojo mode, and play what feels right on that guitar. Thin neck 24 fret Ebony FB with low action just makes me NEED to shred. Semi hollow makes me feel like playing blues or more chords and melodies. LP Custom for hard rock, typically, and chunky rhythm stuff when drop tuned and more standard rock when not drop tuned. Low frets with ebony FB and good sustain makes me play more Satriani-type stuff. I get it man. Sometimes I feel like the guitar nearly plays it's self. I would have zero confidence playing...say Slayer Raining Blood on that guitar. That is exactly why I sold 6 PRS guitars after meeting Paul Reed Smith. It made me want to puke to see PRS on my guitar and I would never want anyone to think I support that person. I had zero joy or inspiration with PRS stamped on my instrument. Guitars seem to have a soul and I respect what they are intended for, or just where it leads me.

    Cheers for knocking "computer music" A computer has no soul, heart, talent, or anything that can be considered artistic. I'm happy you stated that. REAL music seems to be seriously lacking these days as the greats pass away.

  40. #40
    Les Paul Forum Member GuitarMikey's Avatar
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    Re: Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

    This one is looking better
    It's not mine and I'm not doing the work. Just came across it on instagram.

    View post on imgur.com
    GuitarMikey

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