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Today's turd - '62 345 with Kahler

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
What define's this guitar age , state of alteration , price , considerations of vintage allure ?

One thing absolute shame what has happened over the years , to list a old used altered to this point guitar & have interest & a sale wow!!!

I think it is pretty simple. It is either serviceable or not. By serviceable, I mean can it be used with minimal work. Its not junk if it can be used.
It is not unusual (or an absolute shame) for guys to try all kinds of things with their guitars. Eddie Van Halen carved up his all the time. Have you ever seen Brad Gillis's original Fender Strat? He bought it as a box of parts. Carved it up over the years enough to make a groundhog jealous.

Sorry, but I see nothing "wrong" here. I see *real* wear and tear, not a fake relic.
 
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J T

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
10,501
I see someone who wanted a different guitar, but instead of spending money to actually get a guitar that more suited their needs, decided to spend money to booger up that one.

On the other hand, since the headstock was broken, they might have just decided why not it's already screwed up.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
I'd be embarrassed to show up at a paying gig with that guitar. It doesn't really inspire confidence or communicate a positive impression.......:dang
 

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
I'd be embarrassed to show up at a paying gig with that guitar. It doesn't really inspire confidence or communicate a positive impression.......:dang

Okay, if that's the way you feel. One needs to get their confidence where they can find it.

But I don't get it. What happened to real confidence? What happened to the rock & roll "I don't give a @#$ what you think, this is me".
Has self conscientiousness eroded the classic rock & roll self confidence? Is this why so much new music sucks?
One might as well put their guitar on a stand, hit the play button on a prerecording and walk off the stage. And go look for one's balls.
 

reddeluxe

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
82
Confidence, truth in presentation, authentic play wear, etc. not withstanding, the body ear shape is incorrect for any '62 I have seen (I personally have owned both a 335 and 345 from 1962). The f hole shape is NOT the wide style to my eye: I think the finish wear on the treble side f hole is slightly creating that optical illusion...look carefully at the more unmolested bass side f hole. The plastic control knobs are definitely post '66, but those are so easily changed, it is of no consequence. Without seeing the guitar in person, I am just guessing, but the body/ear shape suggests late '63 through '65 vintage, with the correct higher flower pot inlay on the headstock. The spliced neck kills value, but with the other "personalized modifications", probably doesn't really detract all that much, in context of everything else. If you like the general playing feel/neck profile, it could be a worthy restoration project, especially if refinished in an opaque color. The wood cavities can be repaired/filled. Just depends if it is worth it to you personally to pay for the substantial $ repairs. Good luck.
 
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jrgtr42

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
2,308
OUch. that one hurts.
However, if it is a good player, and could be got for a better price, under a grand off the top of my head, it might be worth it as a restoration piece.
Dump the trem, and the matching locking nut.
Fill the holes, set up with period-correct bridge and tailpiece (maybe go for a Bigsby?)
full on refin, maybe some subtle relicing, you may have something.
Problem is, how would it sound now, and what difference if that mass is put back?
 

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
OUch. that one hurts.
However, if it is a good player, and could be got for a better price, under a grand off the top of my head, it might be worth it as a restoration piece.
Dump the trem, and the matching locking nut.
Fill the holes, set up with period-correct bridge and tailpiece (maybe go for a Bigsby?)
full on refin, maybe some subtle relicing, you may have something.
Problem is, how would it sound now, and what difference if that mass is put back?

Now wait a minute. First, I'll say my disclaimer, and state the I think relicing is one of the stupidest charades ever in the guitar world.
That said, I see a new low now:
Fully refinish a guitar and add relicing????????????????
Ruin the original real genuinely worn (by refinishing) and replace it with a fake worn finish??????????

Sorry, but that just beats all.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
Is that label inside the body that faded????

Okay, I went to the auction and saw he pics. Yes, the headstock is grafted on and is from the early ‘70’s, imho. It looks to be a good graft job. The label in the body was an orange oval, but the number in the picture is indecipherable, so I have no idea when the body was built. It appears that someone spent a lot of time keeping this guitar going in some fashion according to what they wanted to do with it.
I am going to think it was played a lot by someone who enjoyed it. FWIW, looking at the bridge saddles, it appears that the player also was concerned about intonation.
I know of on of those limited edition The Les Pauls with the rosewood knobs, pickup surrounds, the oval mother of pearl Ltd Ed number on the back of the hadsock, and super flame maple everywhere. The fellow got it for his high school graduation back in the day.his first wife surprised him for his birthday...lathe had a Kahler installed in that fantastic maple top....the hole was gouged out with a chisel...not that that matters, right?
 
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marshall1987

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Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
Okay, if that's the way you feel. One needs to get their confidence where they can find it.

But I don't get it. What happened to real confidence? What happened to the rock & roll "I don't give a @#$ what you think, this is me".
Has self conscientiousness eroded the classic rock & roll self confidence? Is this why so much new music sucks?
One might as well put their guitar on a stand, hit the play button on a prerecording and walk off the stage. And go look for one's balls.

You're barking up the wrong tree chief. Who the hell are you to cast dispersions at me? You don't know me or my background. Apparently you have too much free time on your hands. You got nothing better to do than cast dispersions at long-time forum members? Does that build you up?

I never said I approached music like Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughn!, or other players that carve up perfectly good guitars. My roots are firmly planted in the 1960s and 1970s. And I have no lack of self confidence as you alluded. Perhaps that's an issue with you?

I couldn't even begin to discuss "new music". I don't care for computer music whatsoever.

Lastly, I'm not here to win a popularity contest with basement Internet wookies, so I stand by what I said previously.
 

J.D.

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
10,030
Sheesh, at one time these were just tools and cheap, used guitars. I've unfortunately seen much worse. Who are we to judge?
 

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
You're barking up the wrong tree chief. Who the hell are you to cast dispersions at me? You don't know me or my background. Apparently you have too much free time on your hands. You got nothing better to do than cast dispersions at long-time forum members? Does that build you up?

I never said I approached music like Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughn!, or other players that carve up perfectly good guitars. My roots are firmly planted in the 1960s and 1970s. And I have no lack of self confidence as you alluded. Perhaps that's an issue with you?

I couldn't even begin to discuss "new music". I don't care for computer music whatsoever.

Lastly, I'm not here to win a popularity contest with basement Internet wookies, so I stand by what I said previously.

Sorry you got your feeling hurt. Super defensive for someone who doesn't care. You weren't even attacked. I just pointed out your point of view isn't shared with some others.
 

crashbelt

Active member
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
103
This object has clearly been sent to us as a metaphor for the state of contemporary society. We must reflect upon the lessons it teaches us:##:laugh2:
 

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
This object has clearly been sent to us as a metaphor for the state of contemporary society. We must reflect upon the lessons it teaches us:##:laugh2:

Ah, yes indeed. And to that end: "It is better to wear out than rust out"
 

jrgtr42

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
2,308
Now wait a minute. First, I'll say my disclaimer, and state the I think relicing is one of the stupidest charades ever in the guitar world.
That said, I see a new low now:
Fully refinish a guitar and add relicing????????????????
Ruin the original real genuinely worn (by refinishing) and replace it with a fake worn finish??????????

Sorry, but that just beats all.

I hear what you're saying.... I don't know that I'd necessarily add the relicing, (notice I did say MAYBE)
But for many people, who want to show that it's an old guitar, they'd want to have some of it on there.
Personally, if it was me, I would want to fill those holes with as close a match to the original wood as I could get,
refin with a stain - how dark would depend on the matching of the grain, and a thin lacquer finish.
Any relicing - ding, dents, scratches etc, would be come through naturally.
IF I was doing it to sell, I 'd relic it. There are lots of buyers who wouldn't want a vintage guitar that looked that pristine - not a player, anyway - yeah, museum pieces, etc.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
That said, I see a new low now:
Fully refinish a guitar and add relicing????????????????

New? A "low"? Not hardly. :wah

I watched it done in the early 70s. Nice restoration finish on a worn vintage guitar. Relicing was perfectly appropriate, as it still can be today. :ganz
 

wmachine

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
303
New? A "low"? Not hardly. :wah

I watched it done in the early 70s. Nice restoration finish on a worn vintage guitar. Relicing was perfectly appropriate, as it still can be today. :ganz

Okay, then a old return to a lower low. Just to be clear, you mean that guitar was refinished (common, yes) and *then* reliced? That's what I'm referring to here. Even if it was, I don't why that makes it appropriate.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
Okay, then a old return to a lower low. Just to be clear, you mean that guitar was refinished (common, yes) and *then* reliced? That's what I'm referring to here. Even if it was, I don't why that makes it appropriate.
You keep engaging posted opinion's ridiculous !!
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Okay, then a old return to a lower low. Just to be clear, you mean that guitar was refinished (common, yes) and *then* reliced? That's what I'm referring to here. Even if it was, I don't why that makes it appropriate.

Yes. It was common even back then to do refins on vintage Fender bodies [with worn original finish neck] that were already refined poorly. Do a two tone burst and enough simple aging to make it match the neck. In other words, not a shiny new finish. It was restoration work. Like redoing 50's Goldtops. You don't want that refin to stand out as "new".
Same with conversions, even back in the early 70s.

As for people doing it to their modern guitars?
It's merely personal taste. :salude
There are hacks, and artists. And everything in between.
 

Boosttt

New member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
14
You're barking up the wrong tree chief. Who the hell are you to cast dispersions at me? You don't know me or my background. Apparently you have too much free time on your hands. You got nothing better to do than cast dispersions at long-time forum members? Does that build you up?

I never said I approached music like Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughn!, or other players that carve up perfectly good guitars. My roots are firmly planted in the 1960s and 1970s. And I have no lack of self confidence as you alluded. Perhaps that's an issue with you?

I couldn't even begin to discuss "new music". I don't care for computer music whatsoever.

Lastly, I'm not here to win a popularity contest with basement Internet wookies, so I stand by what I said previously.

Yay for standing up to that BS!!! I own several very different guitars and I play very different styles on nearly all of them. Maybe that's why there is more than one type of guitar in the world. Hahaha! I completely understand the "confidence quote" I just call it "Mojo" When I pick up a guitar, I quickly go into mojo mode, and play what feels right on that guitar. Thin neck 24 fret Ebony FB with low action just makes me NEED to shred. Semi hollow makes me feel like playing blues or more chords and melodies. LP Custom for hard rock, typically, and chunky rhythm stuff when drop tuned and more standard rock when not drop tuned. Low frets with ebony FB and good sustain makes me play more Satriani-type stuff. I get it man. Sometimes I feel like the guitar nearly plays it's self. I would have zero confidence playing...say Slayer Raining Blood on that guitar. That is exactly why I sold 6 PRS guitars after meeting Paul Reed Smith. It made me want to puke to see PRS on my guitar and I would never want anyone to think I support that person. I had zero joy or inspiration with PRS stamped on my instrument. Guitars seem to have a soul and I respect what they are intended for, or just where it leads me.

Cheers for knocking "computer music" A computer has no soul, heart, talent, or anything that can be considered artistic. I'm happy you stated that. REAL music seems to be seriously lacking these days as the greats pass away. :dang
 

GuitarMikey

Active member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
910
This one is looking better :salude
It's not mine and I'm not doing the work. Just came across it on instagram.

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