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Question about Les Paul setup and action

Mikes66

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
4
I was hoping to get advice on a problem I've been having with both of my Gibsons.
One is a 2016 Traditional, the other a 2012 traditional mahogany satin.

I have been setting up my guitars for 20 + years so I am familiar with truss rod/bridge/stop piece adjustments etc.

I have been getting buzzing on both and both necks are straight, also tweaked a little relief. The problem is even if I raise the bridge to uncomfortable action higher than I always have I still get buzz on open and fretted up to 5th fret or so.

I figured the frets may be uneven or the nut is too low .
Mind you the 2016 has new jumbo frets put on by prior owner.

I had a bone nut put on by a reputable place and when I got the 2016, it had new frets so I had the luthier check them out and make them perfect.
It was okay for a coupke of weeks but now buzzes as does the other guitar.
I never have this happen with my Fenders so what could be the cause?
Any feedback appreciated.
 

rick c

Active member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
282
I understand your confusion; if the necks have slight relief, the nut slots are correct, the bridge height is correct and the frets are level then there should be no buzzing so eliminate one at a time.:
- You already state that the necks are almost flat with just a small amount of relief so it's not relief that's the problem.
- You've also played with bridge height (and I hope you measured 12th fret action at the same time); if action is correct then this isn't the problem either.

Buzzing at the head end does suggest that the nut slots are cut too low; A quick test is to finger the 3rd fret and see if there is a gap between the nut and the first fret; if there is no "action" and the strings are in contact with the first fret then your nut slots are too low.

You note that you suspect fret issues; get a credit card and use it as a rocker between three frets at a time, working from fret 1 and moving up the neck. If the frets are level then the card will not rock due to one fret being higher than its adjacent ones. I also use a steel rule to gauge fret level and neck relief.
 

Mikes66

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
4
I understand your confusion; if the necks have slight relief, the nut slots are correct, the bridge height is correct and the frets are level then there should be no buzzing so eliminate one at a time.:
- You already state that the necks are almost flat with just a small amount of relief so it's not relief that's the problem.
- You've also played with bridge height (and I hope you measured 12th fret action at the same time); if action is correct then this isn't the problem either.

Buzzing at the head end does suggest that the nut slots are cut too low; A quick test is to finger the 3rd fret and see if there is a gap between the nut and the first fret; if there is no "action" and the strings are in contact with the first fret then your nut slots are too low.

You note that you suspect fret issues; get a credit card and use it as a rocker between three frets at a time, working from fret 1 and moving up the neck. If the frets are level then the card will not rock due to one fret being higher than its adjacent ones. I also use a steel rule to gauge fret level and neck relief.


Thanks, I will try those things.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
The nut will only effect non fretted open strings. Once fretted the nut is out of play. It sounds like you may have one or more high frets in that lower region. You can fret notes from first fret up, one fret at a time until buzz stops. If it stops at fret 6, look at fret 5. Try the credit card centered on 5th fret, [ I use an unused wide metal paint scraper, the polished metal makes a handy mirror too], and moving from treble side to bass side see if it rocks. I lay it along each string from 1st to 6th on the inside edge.

If multiple low frets are the issue it may need a fret level, crown dress from nut to last high fret. A single high fret is an easier fix.
 

Mikes66

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
4
The nut will only effect non fretted open strings. Once fretted the nut is out of play. It sounds like you may have one or more high frets in that lower region. You can fret notes from first fret up, one fret at a time until buzz stops. If it stops at fret 6, look at fret 5. Try the credit card centered on 5th fret, [ I use an unused wide metal paint scraper, the polished metal makes a handy mirror too], and moving from treble side to bass side see if it rocks. I lay it along each string from 1st to 6th on the inside edge.

If multiple low frets are the issue it may need a fret level, crown dress from nut to last high fret. A single high fret is an easier fix.

The thing is there are new frets (jumbos) and I brought it to reputable tech just 2 mos ago to check for any problems.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
The thing is there are new frets (jumbos) and I brought it to reputable tech just 2 mos ago to check for any problems.

The new fret job was not properly leveled and crowned. This might not be as apparent in low humidity. It is now.

Does this "luthier" build his own guitars? If not, he is not. What qualifies this reputable tech as such? Any qualified tech would identify and fix the problem if it started fretting out 2 months after you paid for a pro setup. Does he work for the store you purchased the guitar from? Or as a luthier and reputable tech have his own, long or well established shop? Either way he should be able to quickly id and offer advise. Humidity changes have big effects, you need a summer adjustment.

Why have you not taken it back? First thing you do, before posting on forums, before attempting to fix it yourself, is take it back.

Do you know who performed the fret job? Pro job by a pro? If so they should be of help.

Frettng out or buzzing on open strings and fretted notes up to the 5th fret indicates a high 4th fret.
 

Mikes66

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
4
The new fret job was not properly leveled and crowned. This might not be as apparent in low humidity. It is now.

Does this "luthier" build his own guitars? If not, he is not. What qualifies this reputable tech as such? Any qualified tech would identify and fix the problem if it started fretting out 2 months after you paid for a pro setup. Does he work for the store you purchased the guitar from? Or as a luthier and reputable tech have his own, long or well established shop? Either way he should be able to quickly id and offer advise. Humidity changes have big effects, you need a summer adjustment.

Why have you not taken it back? First thing you do, before posting on forums, before attempting to fix it yourself, is take it back.

Do you know who performed the fret job? Pro job by a pro? If so they should be of help.

Frettng out or buzzing on open strings and fretted notes up to the 5th fret indicates a high 4th fret.


I took it to a place thats been around for 30 plus years called Music Solutions in Bolingbrook, il.

I got the guitar from GC used. A 2016 les paul traditional and it had new fret, played great.
Then 2 of the trapezoid inlays were lifting in the corners.
Also it came with an unused bone nut.

So I brought it in to get the inlays fixed, cut and install the bone nut and check all frets .

It was supposed to be a week but ended up taking 3 which is why I'm reluctant to take it back, also its a cruise and I am very busy with work.
 

rick c

Active member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
282
Hi Mike: As Al commented, a change in humidity may be responsible for the change in buzzing; it is also the most likely reason for fret markers lifting. Get out the credit card and rock around the frets to determine if there is a high spot and report back.

Good luck
 
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