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Ideal setup for a les paul

bluesroom

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Jul 17, 2001
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443
Curious to know what you guys consider an ideal action. I know guitars are different and people like different setups.
My favorite guitar of all time is this 2017 58 les Paul Chicago music exchange run. I left it alone, and loved it just the way it was. I had a well respected player pick it up and he was like, you gotta lower the action on this. So I had it done, again by a well respected tech. Can’t believe the difference. Not in a good or bad way, just different. It is a more critical action, the strings are closer to the frets. I believe he also filed down the nut. It buzzes a little more, as expected, but most interesting to me. Is that the D G and E strings are harder to bend. And I have them too wrapped. Another thing is that the high E string feels slightly higher than the string before it.like if I run my hands over the top of the strings I’m aware of the last string.
Now I don’t know if I just knew the guitar so well that I notice such a difference. I have always been superstitious about fooling with a good thing. I mean the strings are much lower visually.
What do you think is the cause of me feeling the tightness of tension. If the neck was adjusted straighter with less relief would this cause this?
How do you guys set you guitars up for ease of playability but with maximum tone. I have 10’s on there now and top wrap.
 

jrgtr42

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Mar 24, 2005
Messages
2,308
I don't think there's any one ideal setup. It depends on the player, the guitar, and a couple other factors.
I generally prefer mine a hair lower action than "normal", with just a touch of relief in the neck, .010 - .46 strings. I have so many guitars that some of them don't like to play with that setup. Some like it lower, some higher, I have a BC Rich Mockingbird that won't play with .010s, I need to keep .011s on that one. Even though I usually keep that one a half step down, it plays perfectly with the heavier strings.
Some people like higher action, some like it right down on the frets.
I don't bother top-wrapping - I tried it one time and didn't find any difference.
It also comes down to the style playing - solos and shredders like the actions down low (generally) and rhythm guys usually like it a bit higher.
 

RocknRollShakeUp

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Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
766
My ideal set up:

10 gauge strings.

Neck Relief: .008-.010"

Action at 12th fret: .060" high E, .070-.075" low E

Pickups: I use the Custom Shop/Historic Les Paul recommendations for the pickup heights (I forget the numbers at the moment), and I put both E pole pieces flush with the pickup cover and then raise the rest to basically follow the 12" radius of the bridge.

I top wrap the strings over the tail piece.
 

Thundermtn

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
548
Those are pretty close to my numbers

10's with .008" at low E relief, I may have a little twist as my high E is at .002-.003", I usually like a hair more but this is the sweet spot where I can feel the most vibration.

.045-.050" on the high E, .075-.080" on the low E

Tail piece to the deck then backed off an eighth or so of a turn, no top wrap
 

rick c

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Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
282
A few comments:

"My favorite guitar of all time is this 2017 58 les Paul Chicago music exchange run" Why? An odd comment suggesting that you have had/played very many guitars but this one stood out for some reason.


"I left it alone, and loved it just the way it was. I had a well respected player pick it up and he was like, you gotta lower the action on this. So I had it done, again by a well respected tech." Why? if you loved it just the way it was and acknowledge that people like different set-ups and that this was the favourite of all time then why didn't you just leave it the way it was? Who cares what someone else says if you liked it the way it was? Why get a "well respected tech" to do this and not do it yourself?

"Can’t believe the difference. Not in a good or bad way, just different. It is a more critical action, the strings are closer to the frets. I believe he also filed down the nut. It buzzes a little more, as expected, ."
So the action was higher than "respected player" height and was probably dropped to factory spec. The tech found a problem with the nut slots and corrected it. Where does it buzz? Buzzing may suggest that the frets are not right at a particular zone on the neck, may just be the way you play.

"but most interesting to me is that the D G and E strings are harder to bend. And I have them too wrapped."
The guitar's scale length didn't change so assuming you tune the strings to regular pitch, the only thing that makes a string harder to bend is string gauge. You probably had skinnier strings to compensate for the higher action and when the action was lowered, the tech probably put thicker strings on. String tension is a function of string length, string gauge and tuning pitch. Lets not get into the top wrap argument.

"Another thing is that the high E string feels slightly higher than the string before it.like if I run my hands over the top of the strings I’m aware of the last string."
Measure it. Determine the distance between the E string and the frets, let's say at the 12th fret, and the same for the B string; the E should be lower. The difference in slot height at the nut between E and B is tiny and probably unnoticeable and at the bridge the E should be lower than the B as the E bridge piece should be lower. The only way the E string can be higher than the B is if the bridge pieces are mixed up; look at the bridge; the bridge profile should roughly follow the finger board profile. Maybe the respected tech got the E and B strings mixed up and what you are noticing is the incorrect tensions in those two strings at regular pitch. An 0.013" tuned to E will be very stiff and hard to bend.

"Now I don’t know if I just knew the guitar so well that I notice such a difference. I have always been superstitious about fooling with a good thing. I mean the strings are much lower visually.
What do you think is the cause of me feeling the tightness of tension. If the neck was adjusted straighter with less relief would this cause this? "
Yes but by a tiny fraction; not enough to change the string tension at regular pitch. As stated above, the only way for tension to increase at regular pitch is for string gauge to change. Not all "0.010" string sets are the same; it's possible you were used to Ernie Ball Regular Slinkies and the tech put on a set that starts at 0.010" but has thicker gauges on down. Sounds to me that you don't like the new set-up; get/borrow a micrometer/vernier caliper and measure the string gauges. If they are too thick for you drop down to a lighter gauge set.

"How do you guys set you guitars up for ease of playability but with maximum tone. I have 10’s on there now and top wrap."
As stated, what does "10's" really mean? Who cares about top wrap?

My 87 Custom, bought new, has an almost flat neck, 5/64" low E action at 12th fret, 3/64" high E action at 12th fret and I use 0.008" to 0.038" EB Extra Slinky strings. The tailpiece is raised just enough to prevent the trailing edge of the string from touching the edge of the bridge. I don't top wrap as I don't see the point; it's a personal preference thing. The guitar plays great and only buzzes when played hard and then only up beyond the 16th fret. This is due to string movement; light strings and light action.

My 88 ES-335: almost flat neck, 5/64", 3/64", 0.010" to 0.046" EB Regular Slinky strings, tailpiece the same as above.

Tone is highly subjective; the guitar is important but just as critical is the signal path and how you play. What amp(s) do you use? Effects?
 
Last edited:

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,020
Neck as straight as it can go without negative effect.

String action low enough to play fast/easy, high enough to vibrate and push out of the way when bending adjacent strings.

IME, most guitars come alive when you nail the setup. I strive for that sweet spot.
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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A few comments:


"String tension is a function of string length, string gauge and tuning pitch. Lets not get into the top wrap argument."

It's a fact. Since you are unable to notice it, you are unqualified to comment on it.


"...the E should be lower than the B as the E bridge piece should be lower. "

WTF? They should be the same.

"...the only way for tension to increase at regular pitch is for string gauge to change. "

Bullshit. A neck with more relief can/will feel "looser" than one that is more straight. A lower tailpiece will feel tighter, etc.


A real tech knows the physics and how to set up a guitar.
 

rick c

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May 28, 2016
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282
Wilco: Chill. Just because you think you know everything doesn't mean you do. Don't invoke "physics" without actually using it to defend your position; I studied physics at university and I've been servicing my guitars since I was 15 years old; never needed to use a luthier. I've been playing 47 years; you think I've never top wrapped? Just more mojo; the subject always deteriorates quickly and goes down the toilet. Jack White thinks guitar color impacts tone; more mojo; each to his/her own. Way too much mojo and not enough real physics on this forum but that's OK; it's just a guitar forum.
 
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Wilko

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Flat profile bridge? Wtf? Radius. Frets are curved.

Why would i need to explain this?
 

rick c

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May 28, 2016
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Wilco chill. Frets are curved and so is the profile of the Gibsons tun-o-matic bridge so at the bridge end, the E string is a little lower than the B. I was trying to answer a weird observation from the OP regarding his feeling that the E was higher. You missed this somehow; probably because I don't care about top-wrapping and this blew one of your fuses.

If you are a guitar "tech" then I'm sorry if I offended you; doesn't make my comments less valid; there's nothing truly technically complex about setting up a guitar; very, very simple stuff. If you are a "tech" you know this; you are making money from other people's ignorance/lack of confidence and that's fine; supply and demand capitalism at work. Tweaking truss rods, dressing frets, guitar electrics; very, very simple stuff.

Have a great week.

I note you edited your post. Thanks.
 
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Wilko

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Have a great week.

I note you edited your post. Thanks.

It was this sentence that messed me up:
" Determine the distance between the E string and the frets, let's say at the 12th fret, and the same for the B string; the E should be lower. "

That measurement should be about the the same (or very close). Sure the saddle is lower, but the string distance from fret should be the same (or tweaked for taste--I like the bass strings to have more room), Does that make sense?

Sorry
 

rick c

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May 28, 2016
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No worries Wilco; makes perfect sense. I was trying to work out how the OP felt that the top E was "higher". It's very unlikely that the tech made any changes to the bridge other than intonation moves which is why I suggested that the OP physically measure the string heights; just didn't make sense to me. It will be interesting to see if the OP responds.

Have a great week!
 

Wilko

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No worries Wilco; makes perfect sense. I was trying to work out how the OP felt that the top E was "higher". It's very unlikely that the tech made any changes to the bridge other than intonation moves which is why I suggested that the OP physically measure the string heights; just didn't make sense to me. It will be interesting to see if the OP responds.

Have a great week!


I've had customers bring me guitars complaining of that and as someone posted above, the strings were swapped!

Cheers
 
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