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  1. #1

    65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    [
    Last edited by martie6621; 06-15-19 at 07:28 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    That would be considered within factory neck angle tolerance, but a bit on the shallow side. I owned an extremely early block marker original 1962 335 that when set to a comfortable ,low action, the thumbwheels were only about 1/8" off the guitar top. It was my personal favorite of the 8 or so ES family guitars I have owned during my lifetime....just a great sounding and playing lightweight 335. As you may know Many 1958 and some early '59 models had neck angles so shallow, that the bottoms of the ABR 1 bridges had to be shaved to get their actions low enough. Remember, the necks/neck tenons were fit and adjusted by hand, so there is definitely some variation in the neck angles. Hope this helps.

  3. #3

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Thanks that does help. Usually i get concerned with a ski slope high string angle with high setting on the posts. This one is just the opposite which is why I am asking. Maybe some others will chime in as well. It just worries me on any setting on a guitar that is maxed out either too high or too low.

  4. #4

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Tops looks sunken in at the bridge area. I would question whether there is a loose brace inside. Needs professional attention.

  5. #5

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Yep, the top looks like it is collapsing. Which is weird since there should be a block under there.

    Maybe this is an ES 330 converted to humbuckers and not a 335?

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member GuitarMikey's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Can we see some pics of the entire guitar?
    GuitarMikey

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member OKGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    There are no braces in a 335, so that isn't the issue. The photo looks like the top has sunk but that really is unlikely in a 335 because the center block would stop that from occurring. I have seen 335's that have had the top separate from the center block but that leaves a very small space between the block and the top-small, like 1/16" or less so I don't think that that's the issue. The idea that it's a converted 330 is worth exploring. It could also be the angle of the photo making it look like the top has sunk. It could also simply be an unusually shallow neck angle for a mid 60's 335. For the record, the best 335's I've had have often had a very shallow neck angle with the bridge sitting right on the top of the guitar. They are usually 58's and 59's. The factory spec changed in early 59 to a steeper angle.

  8. #8

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    H
    Last edited by martie6621; 06-15-19 at 07:29 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    What was the question?

  10. #10

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Someone asked if it was a converted 330 - they asked for a pic

  11. #11

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Via the pic, it appears the guitar is completely normal; no collapsing of the body, and the bridge posts themselves are not bent. I think the camera angle of your original side view pic showing the position of the thumb wheels gave a slight optical illusion of that. For more verification about the factory "shallow" neck angle phenomenon, check Charlie Gelber's website (posted above as OK guitars) on 3x5 family guitars. He has documented examples across the "golden era" years with factory modified (shaved) bridges, sometimes only on one side, due to shallow neck angles. Even today, the 335 neck tenons/ body pockets are fitted by hand and as such there is a slight amount of construction tolerance/variation, even when using a neck angle jig. BTW, I actually preferred the string/action feel of my '62 over any other 3x5 I have played. Supposedly some of those original '58 low neck angled instruments are highly touted for their playability....never played an original, so can't comment from personal experience. Some more of the early era 3x5 experts want to chime in?
    Last edited by reddeluxe; 06-13-19 at 12:32 AM.

  12. #12
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    If the top were sunk, the bridge would need to be higher. Low bridge means the neck is pulling up. Check that it is straight. That will buy more bridge height with same action. Yes, itís a neck angle issue.

    if the neck is straight and you canít lower the bridge enough, youíll need a reset.

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post

    if the neck is straight and you canít lower the bridge enough, youíll need a reset.
    Or you get a repro bride and shave it down a bit. Put the original bridge in the case and play that thing without messing with a neck reset.

  14. #14
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKGuitar View Post
    For the record, the best 335's I've had have often had a very shallow neck angle with the bridge sitting right on the top of the guitar.
    Agreed, thumb wheels very close to the top, while maintaining a good low action, is a good sign.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member latestarter's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    I can only jump on the pile and also say this is a good sign...looks very much a similar neck angle and resulting bridge height as my ‘60 335, a keeper.

    Last edited by latestarter; 06-13-19 at 03:27 AM.
    Otherwise known as Grant.

  16. #16
    All Access/Backstage Pass Progrocker111's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    I have seen some of the early to mid 60s ES 3x5s with such low neck angle. Not so rare...
    My diagnosis is: Hiwatt and Norlinphilia


    2014 Gibson Les Paul Junior 1957 Custom Shop
    1972 Hiwatt DR103, 1972 Hiwatt SE4122

  17. #17
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by fakejake View Post
    Or you get a repro bride and shave it down a bit.
    Sooo..did you shave your bride

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?




    With a stop tail it's a different story but with the height of that tension bar on the bigsby that break angle reminds me more of what you'd see in old Gretsch's, looks real shallow. Maybe it's just the angle of the pic, the Sheraton I had with a bigsby I remember the bridge sitting real low too but it still seemed to have a modestly robust break angle. Either way, if you dig how it sounds/feels, like everyone said, it's not a big deal.

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member Little Jake's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by latestarter View Post
    I can only jump on the pile and also say this is a good sign...looks very much a similar neck angle and resulting bridge height as my Ď60 335, a keeper.

    I too have a wonderful '60 345 with a bridge that sits very low like the one pictured. In my case, I don't think it's all because of neck angle. There's evidence that the fretboard was shaved during a re-fret, especially around the higher frets, which I think is a likely contributor.

  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member gregc's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    FYI, I have a new 2019 dot neck and it is the same situation, and the neck is also very straight, with little relief. Plays great. I'd prefer this to having to jack things way up. So long as you can set it up, all good, IMO.
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  21. #21
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by GASIYA View Post
    As you may know Many 1958 and some early '59 models had neck angles so shallow, that the bottoms of the ABR 1 bridges had to be shaved to get their actions low enough. Remember, the necks/neck tenons were fit and adjusted by hand, so there is definitely some variation in the neck angles. Hope this helps


    Neck angle issues were corrected by around Nov 58. I've owned four from that period, and all had good neck angles.

    On bridges, the very early guitars had bridges shaved to allow for shallow neck angle, but before the neck angle matter was corrected, Gibson also had shallow bridges made, where the mould was thinner, rather than shaving the bridge down. They're quite rare, but they are factory original. I have a few.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  22. #22

    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by fakejake View Post
    Or you get a repro bride and shave it down a bit. Put the original bridge in the case and play that thing without messing with a neck reset.
    My wife would object to me getting a repro bride - especially a shaved one

  23. #23
    All Access/Backstage Pass Progrocker111's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jake View Post
    I too have a wonderful '60 345 with a bridge that sits very low like the one pictured. In my case, I don't think it's all because of neck angle. There's evidence that the fretboard was shaved during a re-fret, especially around the higher frets, which I think is a likely contributor.
    Wow, just for comparison, here is 2015 Memphis 63 reissue, with historical accuracy on her own.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    My diagnosis is: Hiwatt and Norlinphilia


    2014 Gibson Les Paul Junior 1957 Custom Shop
    1972 Hiwatt DR103, 1972 Hiwatt SE4122

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    WOW! I never saw any Norlins with bridges that high! .

    How the hell did that guitar pass QC checks? What that tells you is the factory workers had unrealistic production schedules to meet; and they did not have the training or skills to be able to churn them out that quickly without flaws.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

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  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: 65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

    Yeah, it varies but the bridges tend to be higher and IMO what @Progrocker111 has posted isn't too out of line with many modern 335's I've seen reissue or not. Real stout. Sometimes it's not even the angle, if you look at the set there's a good hunk of heel above the body before the binding line. Some/many of the real old ones the neck binding touches the body binding at the set.

    If it's any consolation I suppose this old hunk of junk featured in a few records could fit another 1.5 thumbwheels between the two that are already there:


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