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65 335 - thumbwheels almost down to the body - anyone seen this? problem?

reddeluxe

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Apr 27, 2017
Messages
82
That would be considered within factory neck angle tolerance, but a bit on the shallow side. I owned an extremely early block marker original 1962 335 that when set to a comfortable ,low action, the thumbwheels were only about 1/8" off the guitar top. It was my personal favorite of the 8 or so ES family guitars I have owned during my lifetime....just a great sounding and playing lightweight 335. As you may know Many 1958 and some early '59 models had neck angles so shallow, that the bottoms of the ABR 1 bridges had to be shaved to get their actions low enough. Remember, the necks/neck tenons were fit and adjusted by hand, so there is definitely some variation in the neck angles. Hope this helps.
 

martie6621

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Joined
Dec 9, 2001
Messages
436
Thanks that does help. Usually i get concerned with a ski slope high string angle with high setting on the posts. This one is just the opposite which is why I am asking. Maybe some others will chime in as well. It just worries me on any setting on a guitar that is maxed out either too high or too low.
 

Showco

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Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
14
Tops looks sunken in at the bridge area. I would question whether there is a loose brace inside. Needs professional attention.
 

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,020
Yep, the top looks like it is collapsing. Which is weird since there should be a block under there.

Maybe this is an ES 330 converted to humbuckers and not a 335?
 

OKGuitar

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Jan 20, 2011
Messages
938
There are no braces in a 335, so that isn't the issue. The photo looks like the top has sunk but that really is unlikely in a 335 because the center block would stop that from occurring. I have seen 335's that have had the top separate from the center block but that leaves a very small space between the block and the top-small, like 1/16" or less so I don't think that that's the issue. The idea that it's a converted 330 is worth exploring. It could also be the angle of the photo making it look like the top has sunk. It could also simply be an unusually shallow neck angle for a mid 60's 335. For the record, the best 335's I've had have often had a very shallow neck angle with the bridge sitting right on the top of the guitar. They are usually 58's and 59's. The factory spec changed in early 59 to a steeper angle.
 

reddeluxe

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Apr 27, 2017
Messages
82
Via the pic, it appears the guitar is completely normal; no collapsing of the body, and the bridge posts themselves are not bent. I think the camera angle of your original side view pic showing the position of the thumb wheels gave a slight optical illusion of that. For more verification about the factory "shallow" neck angle phenomenon, check Charlie Gelber's website (posted above as OK guitars) on 3x5 family guitars. He has documented examples across the "golden era" years with factory modified (shaved) bridges, sometimes only on one side, due to shallow neck angles. Even today, the 335 neck tenons/ body pockets are fitted by hand and as such there is a slight amount of construction tolerance/variation, even when using a neck angle jig. BTW, I actually preferred the string/action feel of my '62 over any other 3x5 I have played. Supposedly some of those original '58 low neck angled instruments are highly touted for their playability....never played an original, so can't comment from personal experience. Some more of the early era 3x5 experts want to chime in?
 
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Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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20,854
If the top were sunk, the bridge would need to be higher. Low bridge means the neck is pulling up. Check that it is straight. That will buy more bridge height with same action. Yes, it’s a neck angle issue.

if the neck is straight and you can’t lower the bridge enough, you’ll need a reset.
 

fakejake

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Sep 3, 2010
Messages
1,274
if the neck is straight and you can’t lower the bridge enough, you’ll need a reset.

Or you get a repro bride and shave it down a bit. Put the original bridge in the case and play that thing without messing with a neck reset. :hank
 

F-Hole

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Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,171
For the record, the best 335's I've had have often had a very shallow neck angle with the bridge sitting right on the top of the guitar.

Agreed, thumb wheels very close to the top, while maintaining a good low action, is a good sign.
 

latestarter

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Nov 9, 2009
Messages
4,173
I can only jump on the pile and also say this is a good sign...looks very much a similar neck angle and resulting bridge height as my ‘60 335, a keeper.

ggzM8pM.jpg
 
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Progrocker111

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Dec 10, 2003
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4,013
I have seen some of the early to mid 60s ES 3x5s with such low neck angle. Not so rare... :)
 

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
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1,592
2v7ym1g.jpg



With a stop tail it's a different story but with the height of that tension bar on the bigsby that break angle reminds me more of what you'd see in old Gretsch's, looks real shallow. Maybe it's just the angle of the pic, the Sheraton I had with a bigsby I remember the bridge sitting real low too but it still seemed to have a modestly robust break angle. Either way, if you dig how it sounds/feels, like everyone said, it's not a big deal.
 

Little Jake

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May 15, 2004
Messages
196
I can only jump on the pile and also say this is a good sign...looks very much a similar neck angle and resulting bridge height as my ‘60 335, a keeper.

ggzM8pM.jpg

I too have a wonderful '60 345 with a bridge that sits very low like the one pictured. In my case, I don't think it's all because of neck angle. There's evidence that the fretboard was shaved during a re-fret, especially around the higher frets, which I think is a likely contributor.
 

gregc

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Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
349
FYI, I have a new 2019 dot neck and it is the same situation, and the neck is also very straight, with little relief. Plays great. I'd prefer this to having to jack things way up. So long as you can set it up, all good, IMO.
 
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