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  1. #41

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Hello again. Today is a great day for me, I had tried several bridges and cordales that I had at home without improvements or appreciable changes in sound. But yesterday I received the new longer posts of Faber steel ... I installed it and the change has been radical .... it is what I was looking for, the highs and strident middle have disappeared and the strings now sound much softer and thick. It's like the sound comes from inside the body and not from the front cover ... I do not know if I explain myself, Now I need to modify the electronics. Thank you all so much for your help

    Last edited by rafalynch; 06-16-19 at 11:58 PM.

  2. #42
    Les Paul Forum Member OKGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    I have question for the gentleman who judges his electric guitars by playing them acoustically. I haven't read the entire thread so if it has been answered, my apologies for being the department of redundancy department. It is this: If the guitar sounds great unplugged, do you assume it will sound great plugged in? Or does it have to sound great both plugged in and unplugged before you would accept it? As a dealer with a brick and mortar store, I get to watch a lot of people checking out guitars they are interested in buying and many of them try them unplugged first and then plug them in. Nothing strange there. But the wrinkle is that I've had guitars that sound pretty terrible unplugged but sound spectacular when plugged in. 335's can sound very banjo-ish unplugged. If I was judging a 335 and was eliminating all of those that didn't sound great unplugged, I would have missed out on some of the best guitars I've ever played. I'm sure there is a relationship between unplugged and plugged in but it shouldn't, in my opinion, be a hard and fast rule.

  3. #43
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Quote Originally Posted by OKGuitar View Post
    I have question for the gentleman who judges his electric guitars by playing them acoustically. I haven't read the entire thread so if it has been answered, my apologies for being the department of redundancy department. It is this: If the guitar sounds great unplugged, do you assume it will sound great plugged in? Or does it have to sound great both plugged in and unplugged before you would accept it? As a dealer with a brick and mortar store, I get to watch a lot of people checking out guitars they are interested in buying and many of them try them unplugged first and then plug them in. Nothing strange there. But the wrinkle is that I've had guitars that sound pretty terrible unplugged but sound spectacular when plugged in. 335's can sound very banjo-ish unplugged. If I was judging a 335 and was eliminating all of those that didn't sound great unplugged, I would have missed out on some of the best guitars I've ever played. I'm sure there is a relationship between unplugged and plugged in but it shouldn't, in my opinion, be a hard and fast rule.
    That's a huge question. No they don't always correlate, but they often do, and then there's the different taste and or explanation about what a player is listening/feeling for.

    For me, I like a more"acoustic" sounding Les Paul as I know that's going to give the complex overtones and dynamics that I like. I'm also "feeling" the guitar's response. It tells me how stiff the neck is which translates into more range in the low end as well as the trademark sustain. That doesn't mean I want minutes of sustain, it means the attack/decay envelope. It also shows the overall range and harmonic content that may/may not be there. If that isn't there acoustically, it ain't there.

    For others a very heavy/solid Les Paul may be more "focused" and tighter feeling with a very stiff neck. That guitar will shine for heavy rock and it won't get all "muddy" as a more acousticy sounding guitar.
    Last edited by Wilko; 06-26-19 at 02:58 PM.

  4. #44

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Thank you very much for your answers and advice. Maybe I'm personally very obsessed with the acoustic sound of the guitars, I have about 8 gibsons from a Melody Marker from 1961 to a CC17 2013 .. but several Les Paul custom 1979 ... 1987 .. and some vintage SG etc. I have been involved in the construction of Les Paul for about 4 years and I am now on number 7. I got mahogany from Honduras ... Brazilian mahogany and select several planks by weight and direction of the grain, always trying to imitate the acoustic sound of the best of my les Paul, use animal glue on scales ... the best ebony and rosewood tuning forks ... etc. The truth is that of the 7 that I have built, I have managed to get a bit closer to a tonal balance similar to the Gibson quality, but only a little, still any of the original paul gibson of which I own sounds better. And I always talk with the unplugged guitar, what sounds like wood as the voice of a singer and something else is the microphone. I'm a fan of the 70 'sound of Zeppelin and AC / DC and I like the TTop 70 pickups. I've tried plugged into my Marshall 1971 superlead with the same pickup and I can assure that the sound changes from one guitar to another with the same pickup .... the guitar that does not sound balanced acoustically plugged in does not reach the full and great tone of the best of my Les Paul Gibson. Perhaps these low output TTop pickups still collect more the real tone of the wood than other pickups with more output than what sounds when amplifying is the pickups, not the wood. If this reasoning would not be like that ... why buy a Gibson ... any fucking Chinese guitar with a TTop pickup would do the job for me and it's not like that. Another thing is the 335 that is an instrument that I did not know, I thought it would sound disconnected more balanced and not so sharp and narrow .... I will try to find more 335 to try and compare with mine to see if it is something of this model or simply My guitar has a fucking sound. Thank you and excuse my english.

  5. #45

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    buy a bridge kit Abr1 Faber. The best the longer posts, they have gotten a bit of improvement in grabs, as the sound comes out of the body now, not the front cover, I do not know if I explain, but the bridge abr1 sounds even more acute and the Nashville I like more .. thicker. I really like the mast game of this guitar and it is a great instrument. surely it is me that I have not been very conscious when buying the guitar online without having tried it before. thank you

  6. #46
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Quote Originally Posted by OKGuitar View Post
    I have question for the gentleman who judges his electric guitars by playing them acoustically. I haven't read the entire thread so if it has been answered, my apologies for being the department of redundancy department. It is this: If the guitar sounds great unplugged, do you assume it will sound great plugged in? Or does it have to sound great both plugged in and unplugged before you would accept it? As a dealer with a brick and mortar store, I get to watch a lot of people checking out guitars they are interested in buying and many of them try them unplugged first and then plug them in. Nothing strange there. But the wrinkle is that I've had guitars that sound pretty terrible unplugged but sound spectacular when plugged in. 335's can sound very banjo-ish unplugged. If I was judging a 335 and was eliminating all of those that didn't sound great unplugged, I would have missed out on some of the best guitars I've ever played. I'm sure there is a relationship between unplugged and plugged in but it shouldn't, in my opinion, be a hard and fast rule.
    Good question and well asked.
    From my experience, there would be no "terrible unplugged" guitar that would sound "spectacular" plugged in. I suggest if you have one that seems to be that way, it would (or could) sound even better coming from one with good unplugged characteristics. All the electronics can be tweaked or even replaced, but you can't bring an acoustically bad guitar back from the dead. (For example, how can you get great sustain from a guitar that lacks it acoustically?)
    I won't argue the extremes of a dead one sounding great plugged in and the other way around. But to me, those at best would be exceptions to the rule. And I'm sticking with my rules.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  7. #47

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Quote Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
    Good question and well asked.
    From my experience, there would be no "terrible unplugged" guitar that would sound "spectacular" plugged in. I suggest if you have one that seems to be that way, it would (or could) sound even better coming from one with good unplugged characteristics. All the electronics can be tweaked or even replaced, but you can't bring an acoustically bad guitar back from the dead. (For example, how can you get great sustain from a guitar that lacks it acoustically?)
    I won't argue the extremes of a dead one sounding great plugged in and the other way around. But to me, those at best would be exceptions to the rule. And I'm sticking with my rules.
    Changing sadles? Strings? Bridge nut or tailpiece?

  8. #48
    Les Paul Forum Member wmachine's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Quote Originally Posted by lare65 View Post
    Changing sadles? Strings? Bridge nut or tailpiece?
    You're not taking that comment in context. Add "by plugging it in" to that comment. You can't pick up sustain by plugging it in. Meaning it can't go from dead unplugged to alive plugged in.
    Last edited by wmachine; 06-25-19 at 02:45 PM.
    "I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

  9. #49
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    I had a great sounding '63 ES-345 w/stoptail that had something I rarely find on any guitar....the fabled "Dead Spots." Nothing fixed the fact from about the 10th fret to the 15th fret the notes just died right off. It was odd. I had a mad lust for that guitar and spent all my moneyz on it at the time but we just didn't get along. Saddle swap, changed strings & gauges, etc didn't do the fix. I worked at a shop at the time and the tech was just like "that's how it is sometimes." I've also encountered an SG that was similar but its a rare occurrence and I've never played a 25.5" guitar that did that nor a Les Paul. It was certainly worth getting 50% more than I paid for it though, if it were today...look out, pretty penny as those suckers have gone up and up and up.

    So, in that sense, if the string doesn't perform a certain way when properly set up that's not a matter you can really fix from what I can tell.

    Timbre though? That's a different thing to wrap your head around because the guitar pickup/string combo can be it's own beast with all sorts of odd order partials introduced and others sucked out etc. String swapping is funny like that, sometimes you put on a brighter sounding set that sounds more mellow when plugged in and vice versa. Much of the time, the stuff you think you hear/feel doesn't actually mean anything after it hits the microphone but it still makes me more comfortable for some reason.


    So, if in terms of "sound" the concept being that good unplugged timbre will translate into preferable plugged in sound? Maybe, maybe not. Yet, if it performs well unplugged one can certainly jack with the pickup/pot combos to eventually get what they desire as the guitar will never be half dead.

  10. #50

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Paul Reed Smith builds guitars that have "bloom" - unplugged. The "bloom" translates when plugged in. It's freaky.

    Some Gibsons do this, but PRSs do it just about all the time.

    However perfect PRSs are (and they really are perfect) they don't sound like Les Pauls. If I judged electric guitars by their acoustic sound I'd be on the PRS forum talking about the new locking tuners or John Mayer signature PRS (aka Strat) and the new Private Stock I just ordered right now. But here I am on the Les Paul Forum because Les Pauls (and other Gibsons) simply sound better than PRSs plugged in.

  11. #51
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    I would get a set of the VIP 500k pots and wire the guitar to 50's wiring and have the cap on the centre lug of the volume pots so it stays clean when you roll it back

  12. #52

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Unplugged, my ES-225 sounds like a little cello. Rich, warm, fat... I wish I could do something with that tone. My Les Paul is quite a bit quieter, but has a nice bassy thump that amplifies well. Unplugged, my ES-335 sounds like a transistor pocket radio. Plugged in, it sounds like a giant Telecaster. I had an Epiphone ES-335 Pro that sounded much warmer unplugged. It wasn't as good plugged in, though.

    I had a 5-1/2 pound mid '60s Epiphone Olympic that had a beautiful acoustic sound. Very lively. I've played old SGs that were like it. They sounded awesome plugged it, too.
    Had exactly same thoughts when bought my daughter a cello. The sound was close to my epiphone. But that depends, though. We got Cremona like this, but she tried some at music stores, and they are not all the same

  13. #53
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    I'm not as experienced as you guys when it comes to playing dozens and dozens of different Gibsons or Fenders over the decades, however my rule of thumb with solid body guitars is that, if it doesn't sound good acoustically it won't sound great plugged in, and with my latest acquisition of a 335 it's somewhat the same appraisal in that it rings out acoustically(with it's semi hollow body) and is just great plugged in. Don't know what it would be like to find a semi hollow that didn't have the 'resonating sound' as it were........I know it wouldn't be a keeper that's for sure.

  14. #54

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Change .... Tailpiece and bridge to Faber aluminum and worse, much sharper. The great improvement, but as from water to wine, has been to change the longer posts of the bridge, for some Faber and I keep the tuneomatic bridge and the Gibson tailpiece.
    20200604-125620

  15. #55

    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    When someone asks me to compare the Les Paul to a ES-335, I liken it somewhat to the difference between a saxophone and trumpet in terms of timbre, but obviously there's other things going on with attack/response and all. But yeah some are surprised the the 335 isn't more like a hollow body jazz guitar because of the F-holes and such. It can be on sth neck pickup with certain ton settings, but in general it's a brighter and spankier guitar plugged in that isn't as much of a 'cannon' in the mids like the LP, but can be snappier and more forward in the upper mids. Less sustain, but more snap.

    I guess the OP was expecting more of a full-hollowbody acoustic quality, but the semi-hollow construction, maple block and laminated top/back kind of cancels out a lot of that, I think. At least compared to a LP which is like having a big brass gong connected to it. Maybe it's less about 'acoustic' performances and more about how the guitars resonate differently and can translate into how they're heard/felt while playing unplugged. But essentially, don't let it dictate how much you like it, plugged in is what it's all about.
    Last edited by Minibucker; 06-06-20 at 11:19 AM.
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  16. #56
    Les Paul Forum Member Gold Tone's Avatar
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    Re: Gibson ES 335 help

    Quote Originally Posted by Minibucker View Post
    I guess the OP was expecting more of a full-hollowbody acoustic quality, but the semi-hollow construction, maple block and laminated top/back kind of cancels out a lot of that, I think. At least compared to a LP which is like having a big brass gong connected to it. Maybe it's less about 'acoustic' performances and more about how the guitars resonate differently and can translate into how their heard/felt while playing unplugged. But essentially, don't let it dictate how much you like it, plugged in is what it's all about.
    +1

    I was going to respond but it would have been exactly this to the word. I might only add an observation that a 335 is best thought of as a solid body guitar with attached hollow side wings.

    And yes, always judge an electric guitar plugged in...”ELECTRIC” guitar

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