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Thread: vilelm

  1. #1

    vilelm

    Hi all! I recently bought a 1988 Les Paul standard and need some help identifying the pickups. I'm attaching a picture, any help is really welcome!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    They appear to be real Gibson pickups.
    I don't know if they are correct for that year, but hopefully more knowledgeable people will add info.
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  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member Shocktop99's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    I agree with Tom, They look to be real Gibson pickups, but i'm unsure of the model of pickups.

    @BigAl Would know!! I don't know, but he is pretty knowledgeable in Gibsons from the 80s!! My guess would be some form of Tim Shaw PAF and or early version of what is now a 498t/496r??? don't take my word on it!!
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  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    It is really hard to tell what they are as they did not use model identification markings except in the early mid prefix ink stamp 80's. They used the same bases and bobbins etc..

    Still, if they are original, they look to be, Standards have always had the current edition of the evolved original humbucker. Ttops in the 70's and then the various versions as they were refined. So, AlNiCo V magnets, 42 ga copper wire wound to a resistance of around 7.5k - 8k ohms. IIRC they used specific bridge and neck pickups by 1988, with a wider pole piece spread at the bridge. Most likely pu490's or 498t/496r, [those may be post Bill Lawrence pcb base pickups though],. They may also be the 1959 Reissue pickup which was used on many models replaceing the Ttop replacement, the 490.

    The 490, 498t/496r and 1959 Reissue Humbucker are very similar and IMO, excellent sounding pickups being modern takes on the old paf platform. I can't say for sure, but if you can find a 1988 catalogue or ad copy you could find out for sure. I cannot access my archives right now.
    Like to see that guitar, hint, hint.
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  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member Capt Brad's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    The PAF stickers look just like the one on my 83 Studio pickup rings?
    You can ck the lead ends at the pots to see if there is red and yellow paint marks on them.
    All of my Shaw era pups have the paint marks on them.
    Last edited by Capt Brad; 05-22-19 at 09:40 AM.

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Brad View Post
    The PAF stickers look just like the one on my 83 Studio pickup rings?
    You can ck the lead ends at the pots to see if there is red and yellow paint marks on them.
    All of my Shaw era pups have the paint marks on them.
    Shaw paf reissues did not run to 88 and ended much earlier. There is not a group of Shaw Era pickups, only the Patent Applied For humbucker, 137/138, developed for the 1980 Heritege Series 59 reissue Les Pauls. He was not a pickup maker but he is who I talked to when he was collecting data for the reissue.

    If you check the archives you'll find I was the person who initially brought up these pickups in detail almost 20 yrs ago and in fact coined the term "Shawbucker" and associated Tim with this pickup.

    Those peel n stick stickers were given to dealers on sheets and we gave 'em away or stuck 'em on the rings or pickup bases.

    All of the Shawbucker pafs had Nickle or Gold covers. They had solid 6 pole bases and not 12 pole. I've never seen red or yellow painted terminal lead ends? on any 80-84 reissue.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member Capt Brad's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    Shaw paf reissues did not run to 88 and ended much earlier. There is not a group of Shaw Era pickups, only the Patent Applied For humbucker, 137/138, developed for the 1980 Heritege Series 59 reissue Les Pauls. He was not a pickup maker but he is who I talked to when he was collecting data for the reissue.

    If you check the archives you'll find I was the person who initially brought up these pickups in detail almost 20 yrs ago and in fact coined the term "Shawbucker" and associated Tim with this pickup.

    Those peel n stick stickers were given to dealers on sheets and we gave 'em away or stuck 'em on the rings or pickup bases.

    All of the Shawbucker pafs had Nickle or Gold covers. They had solid 6 pole bases and not 12 pole. I've never seen red or yellow painted terminal lead ends? on any 80-84 reissue.
    All of my Ink stamped # PUs that I Have this yellow or red paint marks. Yellow bridge and red neck. Pardon the pun!
    Even my 137 and 138 in a XRIII have the paint marked leads.
    The ones with no code just Ink Date that I have do not have painted lead ends?

    Big Al I want to thank you for helping me learn! I hope I'm not asking too many dumb questions.



  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member Strings Jr.'s Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Brad View Post
    All of my Ink stamped # PUs that I Have this yellow or red paint marks. Yellow bridge and red neck. Pardon the pun!
    Even my 137 and 138 in a XRIII have the paint marked leads.
    The ones with no code just Ink Date that I have do not have painted lead ends?

    Big Al I want to thank you for helping me learn! I hope I'm not asking too many dumb questions.

    The paint marks on the pickup leads were simply an assembly aid to distinguish the neck pickup from the bridge pickup when you flipped the guitar over to wire it up. The letters on the metal control plate were color codes for the wires. W = White (from toggle switch) O = Orange (Neck pickup) B = Black (from toggle switch) R = Red (from toggle switch) Y = Yellow (Bridge pickup).
    Also FYI, Nashville stopped using the PAF stickers on April 9th, 1986.

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member Capt Brad's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Quote Originally Posted by Strings Jr. View Post
    The paint marks on the pickup leads were simply an assembly aid to distinguish the neck pickup from the bridge pickup when you flipped the guitar over to wire it up. The letters on the metal control plate were color codes for the wires. W = White (from toggle switch) O = Orange (Neck pickup) B = Black (from toggle switch) R = Red (from toggle switch) Y = Yellow (Bridge pickup).
    Also FYI, Nashville stopped using the PAF stickers on April 9th, 1986.
    I know what the paint marks are for . My question Why only on the pups with #date code and a three # Batch code?
    I'm not saying these pups are from 1988. I am saying they look and share features as my early 80s right down to the short legs long legs 6/12 hole base plate.

    If I may Would I like to know is? What is a Shawbucker and what is not?
    What are the 12 hole baseplate pups when not a Dirty fingers?
    Are the 137/138 the only PAF reissue 80 to 86 and how are they different from others from this era?

    Thanks for info that might clear this up.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Cap, the only paf reissue is the 137/138 pat. app. for humbucker. Bases were slowly intregrated with 12 hole Dirty Fingers bases as well as dropping the Ttop bobbin and adopting the square hole in a circle paf bobbin across the line. The pat. app. for 137/138 pickups had identical pole spreads with identical long leg 6 hole bases. Other humbuckers saw bridge poles widen around mid 80's, which may account for mixed 6/12 hole bases. There are distinct bridge and neck bases and covers.

    Gibson could explain prefix codes, no one else has them. I do not know if the later pickups continued with 3 digit prefix stamps. I am unfamiliar with the pre 57 Classic post 137/138 1959 Reissue Humbucker. Color coded painted ends was explained, no mystery involved.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  11. #11
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    Re: vilelm

    When you talk like this, you can read all your experience from working at Gibson and years of playing guitar, it kinda feels like getting into a warm bath of Gibson knowledge. Great place to get Gibson info. Keep it up Big Al for many more years.

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Quote Originally Posted by zoommutt View Post
    When you talk like this, you can read all your experience from working at Gibson and years of playing guitar, it kinda feels like getting into a warm bath of Gibson knowledge. Great place to get Gibson info. Keep it up Big Al for many more years.
    To be clear, I did not work for Gibson. I was an authorised Gibson Repair Tech in the 70's and up to the Norlin sale in late 80's. I would have to go to Kalamazoo to demonstrate my ability and to learn how they did things. I would repair guitars under their eye and spend time on the factory floor performing various functions I found interesting, or to gain better skill such as binding scraping.

    All so I could be reimbursed by Gibson for the warranty work I did in California and Nevada.

    Like many musicians I found a place in retail and was a top Gibson seller. Besides NAMN events I attended many Gibson sales seminars specific to certain gear like the Artist and RD range.
    It was a great time and I loved it all.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member Capt Brad's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    Cap, the only paf reissue is the 137/138 pat. app. for humbucker. Bases were slowly intregrated with 12 hole Dirty Fingers bases as well as dropping the Ttop bobbin and adopting the square hole in a circle paf bobbin across the line. The pat. app. for 137/138 pickups had identical pole spreads with identical long leg 6 hole bases. Other humbuckers saw bridge poles widen around mid 80's, which may account for mixed 6/12 hole bases. There are distinct bridge and neck bases and covers.

    Gibson could explain prefix codes, no one else has them. I do not know if the later pickups continued with 3 digit prefix stamps. I am unfamiliar with the pre 57 Classic post 137/138 1959 Reissue Humbucker. Color coded painted ends was explained, no mystery involved.
    Thanks for the info Al
    I find all of this very interesting and glad that I have a set of 137/138 pups.


    Seems to me their is a lot of misinformation out there about what a Tim Shaw spec PAF is.
    I guess Ink stamps and stickers confuse a lot of people Myself included?

    And just to clarify this is a 138 PAF reissue dated 1981?




  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: vilelm

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Brad View Post
    Thanks for the info Al
    I find all of this very interesting and glad that I have a set of 137/138 pups.


    Seems to me their is a lot of misinformation out there about what a Tim Shaw spec PAF is.
    I guess Ink stamps and stickers confuse a lot of people Myself included?

    And just to clarify this is a 138 PAF reissue dated 1981?



    Yup.

    The confusion is from know nothings that posted all over the web that ANY pickup with an ink stamp was an early 80's paf reissue. They present this as fact, and people searching for info get duped. Worse are the scammers who intentionally misrepresent these as "Shawbuckers" for inflated resale. 80% or more offered for sale are not the 137/138 pafs.
    The older I get, the better I was.

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