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  1. #81
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    Why don't players who want a Bigsby or stop TP just buy a freaking git with one ALREADY on it instead of considering destroying the sellability, collectability and value of a git?

  2. #82
    Les Paul Forum Member MeHereNow's Avatar
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    Quote Originally Posted by gnappi View Post
    Why don't players who want a Bigsby or stop TP just buy a freaking git with one ALREADY on it instead of considering destroying the sellability, collectability and value of a git?
    That question came up a few times earlier on in this thread.
    It also got answered a few times.
    Get my money, buy my medicine...

  3. #83
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    Your original post read weird. If you wanted lighter feel, then a stop tail is NOT what you want.

    stop tails make them feels stiffer!

    That's why players get rid of the trapeze which feels lighter and can't get that breakover angle like a stop tail.

  4. #84
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    Quote Originally Posted by rob livesey View Post
    Hi chaps,

    Thanks for all the input regarding my guitar, it really is appreciated, and interesting to hear all the differing opinions.
    There are differing opinions about what to do with the guitar, but opinions don't matter to the laws of physics.

    A stop tailpiece feels "tighter" than a trapeze. That's a fact. Lessening the breakover angle at the bridge can make a guitar feel not as "tight".


  5. #85

    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    I think perhaps I have not been clear on how this trapeze feels different to a stoptail.

    Ok, I said the guitar felt stiffer. Strumming chords, it doesn't, it feels the same. Bending notes is a different matter. I have been comparing this trapeze tail with a stop tail yesterday. What actually happens is this. To bend a note on the trapeze tail by a whole tone, the string has to be bent further and traverse the fretboard by a greater distance than on the stoptail. I'm not going into the physics of it, because I can't, but I expect this is because the whole string from tuner to tailpiece is being stretched/tensioned to achieve the higher note, and the string on the trapeze tail is considerably longer. Therefore this results in what I meant by a tighter feel, ie I have to push the string further to achieve the same result. By reducing the string gauge by just .5, I have made this easier to achieve.

    Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Rob
    -----------------
    Rob Livesey
    Manchester, UK

  6. #86
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    Quote Originally Posted by rob livesey View Post

    Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Rob
    Completely makes sense with that explanation. There are many who don't feel that, and even claim that effect doesn't exist!

  7. #87
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    There are differing opinions about what to do with the guitar, but opinions don't matter to the laws of physics.

    A stop tailpiece feels "tighter" than a trapeze. That's a fact. Lessening the breakover angle at the bridge can make a guitar feel not as "tight".

    It's been my experience that you get the best performance and feel from a stop tailpiece when the breakover angle at the bridge is nearly identical to the breakover angle of the strings at the nut.

    On a guitar with a 17 degree headstock angle, I set the stop tailpiece to give me a 17 degree breakover angle also. This setup provides optimal "balance" of the strings. I have researched this concept from the standpoint of physics, forces, and trigonometry and everything I've read supports this tenet.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
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  8. #88
    Les Paul Forum Member StSpider's Avatar
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    Quote Originally Posted by rob livesey View Post
    I think perhaps I have not been clear on how this trapeze feels different to a stoptail.

    Ok, I said the guitar felt stiffer. Strumming chords, it doesn't, it feels the same. Bending notes is a different matter. I have been comparing this trapeze tail with a stop tail yesterday. What actually happens is this. To bend a note on the trapeze tail by a whole tone, the string has to be bent further and traverse the fretboard by a greater distance than on the stoptail. I'm not going into the physics of it, because I can't, but I expect this is because the whole string from tuner to tailpiece is being stretched/tensioned to achieve the higher note, and the string on the trapeze tail is considerably longer. Therefore this results in what I meant by a tighter feel, ie I have to push the string further to achieve the same result. By reducing the string gauge by just .5, I have made this easier to achieve.

    Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Rob
    Well you do have to push a longer string so that affects it a bit but personally my 330 plays like butter despite having bigger strings than most of my other guitars.
    - 2006 Les Paul Historic R4 Oxblood
    - 2012 ES-330TDVB
    - 1995 Les Paul Studio Ebony with B7 Bigsby

    There is NO substitute for Loudness.

  9. #89
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    I've never seen the tension bar before. Don't know how I've missed it. Looks like it works, though having that shape of bar elevated in that location is not good, IMO. Could/should be made more low profile. Still, a great idea. As far as the OP is concerned, I would not change the guitar by adding a stoptail even though I dislike trapeze tailpieces a great deal and just lok a 335 w/ stoptail. I'm not a knee-jerk anti-modder, either. But forever changing the nature of an old guitar is not something I would do. Of course you can -- you can chainsaw if for kindling, too, if you own it -- but that doesn't me you should. Things live on; we don't. There's a reason why the value will drop greatly once changed, even though most players want stoptails. I have a phenomenal sounding Gibson acoustic from 1936. It has a massive neck, and could easily be recarved to play much more easily. Not gonna happen. Of course, it's up to you, not me, not us.

  10. #90
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

    I had a 1966 Gretsch Chet Atkins 6120 a few years ago. The combination of the 10 degree fingerboard radius & narrow nut made it so hard for me to play even after I refretted it with larger wire(StewMac#141). Almost all original Gretaches came with smaller wire( .035x.070). I played it for a few years before selling to a really wonderful chap in Greece.

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