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Adding a Stoptail to a 1969 335?

rob livesey

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Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
655
Hi Chaps,

I picked this one up this week. I think it's 69 based on features. One piece neck, no volute, no "Made in USA", witch hats, no dot over the "i" in Gibson and the one pot I can read with a dental mirror is dated 11th week of 1968.

I have a desire to add a stoptail, as it is a little tight on the tension front, but the guitar is in very very good all original condition, I would say 9/10. This does present a dilemma, as it's just so clean and original. But I do want to keep it and play it.

Will I devalue the guitar greatly if I do this?

Also, where can I find a 68/69 repro chrome stoptail, studs and bushings that I would need to keep the look of the guitar as "period correct"?

Thanks in advance,
Rob.

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fakejake

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Sep 3, 2010
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1,274
I would really not do this. The guitar is in such a fine condition, looks almost mint. And the trapeze really isn't such a bad feature.
I have a 1970 335, and I considered this mod for quite a while. I'm glad I didn't go through with it. There are plenty of threads on various forums, where guys report how the mod changed the guitar for the worse.
And what if you find an earlier 335 at some point with the stop tail already added, and want to sell this one? You'll loose a lot of money by converting it.
It's a beautiful as it is, and I bet it plays and sounds great! Just my 2c...
 

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
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1,017
IMHO - all adding a stop tail would do is devalue the guitar. Forever.

It is a gorgeous example and trapeze guitars play perfectly fine.
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,025
A Bigsby is another option. Gets good sustain like a stop tail and covers up the holes from the trapeze mount. And of course the vibrola.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
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Owned several trapeze ES guitars over the years never kept one very long something IMO lacking , really like stops , would not alter any guitar .
 

OKGuitar

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Jan 20, 2011
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Actually, stop tailed 60's 335's are easier to sell than trap tails. The stop tail mod doesn't seem to significantly diminish the value on anything but a mint guitar unless your luthier puts it in the wrong location. Then it looks like it was done by an amateur and nobody (except maybe Larry Carlton fans) will want it. If you do the conversion, make your luthier reads this.
 

fakejake

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Actually, stop tailed 60's 335's are easier to sell than trap tails. The stop tail mod doesn't seem to significantly diminish the value on anything but a mint guitar unless your luthier puts it in the wrong location. Then it looks like it was done by an amateur and nobody (except maybe Larry Carlton fans) will want it. If you do the conversion, make your luthier reads this.

Charlie, I'm surprised that you of all people would encourage converting such a fine looking 335. :dang Aren't there enough stoptailed 335's out there already? It's a bit like putting a TOM bridge on a '54 wraptail Les Paul.
Some people actually prefer the trap tails!
 

rob livesey

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Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
655
Actually, stop tailed 60's 335's are easier to sell than trap tails. The stop tail mod doesn't seem to significantly diminish the value on anything but a mint guitar unless your luthier puts it in the wrong location. Then it looks like it was done by an amateur and nobody (except maybe Larry Carlton fans) will want it. If you do the conversion, make your luthier reads this.

Thanks for chiming in Charlie, even though I am surprised by what you say!

But, I don't think anyone knows more about 335's and the market than you do.

I'm still on the fence about it, and won't make a hasty decision. Most opinions I hear say no, don't do it, but I should make up my own mind.

Thanks for the input guys.

Rob
 

garywright

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Aug 17, 2002
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15,553
the only thing that I would add to that beauty would be set of black reflector knobs
 

Grog

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Apr 7, 2012
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A Bigsby is another option. Gets good sustain like a stop tail and covers up the holes from the trapeze mount. And of course the vibrola.

I found one with a factory Bigsby. I agree with JD that it gets better sustain than a trapeze tailpiece....


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rob livesey

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Feb 28, 2007
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655
That one ^ looks nice with the bigsby.

I do have two concerns about a bigsby as an alternative solution, the first being the added weight (not a biggie), but the second being that the actual string length, nut to tail is increased even beyond that of the trapeze. Won't this make the guitar feel tighter?

Rob
 

guitplayer

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Mar 8, 2008
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2,114
Very, very ,good condition... I would`nt mess with that.
Play it for what it is. :)
 

mdubya

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That one ^ looks nice with the bigsby.

I do have two concerns about a bigsby as an alternative solution, the first being the added weight (not a biggie), but the second being that the actual string length, nut to tail is increased even beyond that of the trapeze. Won't this make the guitar feel tighter?

Rob

I believe it is break angle and not string length that makes tension feel tighter or slinkier.

If that is your main concern, I think you can actually pull up on the trapeze to decrease the beak angle making the string tension feel more slinky.

FWIW-I never wish my ES 330 had a stop bar tail piece. Never. And when my 330 is set up right, it rivals any of my other guitars, including my stop bar ES 335's and my stop bar Epi Sheraton.
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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If you want a stop tail, put one on there. That period would be a light alloy chrome (that’s why the Les Plauls got).

a properly mounted stop bar on a 335 is a very different guitar. A bigsby won’t help. Imnsho, Bigsby’s don’t make it that much tighter feeling and you still get the tuning issues. You can’t beat the sharp attack and long sustain of a stop tail on a 335.

My 1965 ES-335 with full width neck is was converted by a PO.
 

Gold Tone

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Apr 2, 2002
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6,825
If you “need” to mod it permanently to make it “right”...it isn’t the guitar for you. Sell it so that it can get into the right person’s hands unharmed.

You’ll find yours...it’s out there!
 

rob livesey

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Feb 28, 2007
Messages
655
I understand everyone saying, buy a stoptail if that's what I want. However, in the UK a 60's original stoptail 335 is 2 to 3 times the money.

I got this guitar at the right price, some would say at 60% of what it should have been from a dealer. Indeed I saw a '67/68 at the northwest guitar show on Sunday, very like it, in similar condition, and it was £2k more than I paid this week.

There is no way I can afford a '64 or '65, so this is the only way in to a guitar like that. There was a '64 at the show, in poorer condition than this one and it was £12k.

It's a dilemma!

Rob
 

rob livesey

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
655
If you want a stop tail, put one on there. That period would be a light alloy chrome (that’s why the Les Plauls got).

a properly mounted stop bar on a 335 is a very different guitar. A bigsby won’t help. Imnsho, Bigsby’s don’t make it that much tighter feeling and you still get the tuning issues. You can’t beat the sharp attack and long sustain of a stop tail on a 335.

My 1965 ES-335 with full width neck is was converted by a PO.

I will source the correct parts if I do it, I think Crazyparts have lightweight alloy chrome stoptails.

I have been in touch with my trusted luthier, Ged Green, and asked him about the process. He's done it before many times. I have also sent him Charlie's link to stoptail positioning so he knows just how I want it doing........if I do it.

Rob.
 

K_L

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Sep 11, 2014
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566
Actually, stop tailed 60's 335's are easier to sell than trap tails. The stop tail mod doesn't seem to significantly diminish the value on anything but a mint guitar unless your luthier puts it in the wrong location. Then it looks like it was done by an amateur and nobody (except maybe Larry Carlton fans) will want it. If you do the conversion, make your luthier reads this.

Is the measured distance between the bridge and a factory-installed stop tailpiece always the same on all Gibson guitars? [ie LP`s, SG`s etc]?
 

ourmaninthenorth

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Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,106
Devalue is such a pejorative term.

If you prefer a stop Rob, get it done and play the paint off the bugger - plenty of value in that. If keeping it original, but not really to your playing taste, is your thing, leave it original and alone.

It's your guitar, and your call.

However ( isn't there always a bloody however...)

Gun to my head? I wouldn't change a bloody thing - it's gorgeous as it is.

You're a good enough player to get around/adapt to the tension issue. Give it a month and re-visit.

Good luck whichever way. :salude
 

rob livesey

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Feb 28, 2007
Messages
655
Devalue is such a pejorative term.

If you prefer a stop Rob, get it done and play the paint off the bugger - plenty of value in that. If keeping it original, but not really to your playing taste, is your thing, leave it original and alone.

It's your guitar, and your call.

However ( isn't there always a bloody however...)

Gun to my head? I wouldn't change a bloody thing - it's gorgeous as it is.

You're a good enough player to get around/adapt to the tension issue. Give it a month and re-visit.

Good luck whichever way. :salude

Paul, sage advice as always.

And flattery will get you everywhere.

Sorry I missed you at the show, I was there for over three hours and it seems I managed to miss most folks!

Rob
 
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