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Sucked Back Into Tube Rolling - Anyone Else?

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,030
Seems there are a number of decent new production tubes available at reasonable prices from reputable vendors who further match and screen them. I've been buying some different brands and flavors and having a blast listening to the subtle but audible tone differences, similar to pickup swapping in some respects. I'm playing in the 12ax7 preamp and EL34/6CA7 power tube types.

I'm surprised to say the Groove Tubes and similar rebranded Chinese Shuguang 12ax7s sound really great from both tone and noise perspectives, as do their EL34-Ms. Maybe it's just a familiar sound to me. Electro Harmonix big bottle 6CA7s and Mullard reissue EL34s sounded excellent to my ears as well. Not really impressed with some of the JJ and Sovtek preamp tubes I've tried.

The =C= EL34 used to be my go to power tube years ago but the cost has really increased, and what I've read is the current production is a different tube. Lot of good old tubes also available but I've stayed out of that segment for now.

Anyone else tube rolling?
 

thin sissy

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Jan 2, 2006
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2,691
It's been years since I've bought tubes, but I know what you mean. I bought a couple of NOS 12AX7's (Brimars, Philips, Telefunken) a couple of years ago because I couldn't find a quiet new 12AY7 for the tube driver position in a Princeton reverb (I'm sure there are good new ones though). During that time I experimented in the PR and a JTM45 with all the different NOS tubes in the preamp.

Honestly I was kind of bummed that there was a difference, the old ones sounded nicer. I wish there wasn't a difference between the JJ's I had in and the old ones I bought, because the NOS tubes aren't cheap. I ended up putting a NOS tube in the V1 position on the two amps and saved the rest, the other positions still have the JJ's.

Of the "new" tubes I had (today they are like 10 years old though), the Electro Harmonix 6V6's were nice I thought.

I would also be interested in hearing others experiences on new tubes today as I've been out of the loop for a couple of years :) .
 

J.D.

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I agree, some of the old European and US tubes I tried years ago were really good. Problem is these days they've gotten expensive, or at least NOS have (used ones can be very reasonably priced). Only way to try them is to buy them. From what I read the older tubes, generally speaking, tend to last longer (meaning total hours of use).
 

thin sissy

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Yepp, that sounds right. The older tubes in V1 have outlasted the others.

I wonder, with the big tube amp craze, will there start a 2old timey hipster" tube factory that builds them like the old ones? If it did, they would probably be as expensive as nos tubes though :hmm
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,030
If/when you find a vintage tube you really dig, there's always the question, will you find the exact tubes again. Not so much an issue with current production (although =C= is an example where it has happened).

Since most current production tubes are fairly inexpensive, I'm ok with the slightly lower service life.

Other problems I have with vintage tubes is identifying subtle differences, spotting fakes, knowledge of who made which rebranded tube, and sellers screen them differently - I don't have a proper vacuum tube tester to verify any claimed measured values.
 

ourmaninthenorth

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I just like the old valves and will always seek them out over the new stuff..and considering some of the eye watering prices of the NOS, I definitely can hear the difference, honest...

:biggrin:
 

J.D.

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No kidding :hee

For the most part I find them all sounding "good", just slightly different. Finding a great sound with a very low noise floor is what I'm after, and interestingly the relatively cheap Chinese-made tubes seem best so far. Might be due to the Groove Tubes screening process. Only a couple of the really low noise new style preamp tubes with the short plates and spiral filaments (Sovtek IIRC) sounded really dull and lifeless. Guess that's the trade-off for a really low noise floor. Might be good for a really bright and screechy amp though.
 

ourmaninthenorth

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This is an interesting read, though not claiming to understand nuclear physics - which appears to be a prerequisite in any discussion of this stuff, I kinda like this geezers findings when saying ...


"...The Mullard is a superior device from a bygone era..."


The errand is pretty simple for us enthusiasts I reckon, second best is never going to quite cut it...get yer wallets out Lads, and seek out them Blackburn's...


https://www.effectrode.com/knowledg...reissue-vs-original-an-electrical-comparison/
 

J.D.

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I don't subscribe to the single universally best tube theory. Much like guitars, there's different tools for different jobs.

Don't even get me started on speakers...:hee
 

ourmaninthenorth

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Mar 28, 2009
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I don't subscribe to the single universally best tube theory. Much like guitars, there's different tools for different jobs.

Don't even get me started on speakers...:hee

Me neither, but I gravitate to those favourites that I've enjoyed enormous success with.

They just happen to have Mullard, Brimar and GEC on the labels..I have to keep this stuff simple or I just naturally fall down every single rabbit hole...

I think I liked it better when I was a young geezer when you just played what you could get your hands on.

:biggrin:
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,030
Yes and no. New Sensor clearly has made a modern tube that is not physically identical but has remarkable similarities to the Mullard original, and available at a fair price. Not unlike what Gibson is doing with the Historics.
 

sonar

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Jan 10, 2003
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3,589
I think I made an honest effort with eastern european, new production 9-pin preamp tubes. Maybe a weirdly large amount of bad luck was involved, but I experienced a lot of rattle, noise and the worst offender, microphonics with modern euro 12AX7's. I've since reverted back to all old production 9-pin pre's in all but one of my amps.

Better luck with modern 6V6's (I like both JJ and Tung Sol 6V6's) and still evaluating 6L6 varieties.

I'm completely lost with EL34's. I think I currently have a quartet of JJ's in my old Super Lead? They're fine, not great, not as creamy as the pre-war Tesla's that used to be in that amp.
 

ourmaninthenorth

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I believe a firm called Techtubes had a go at getting a venture off the ground making Mullard valves using old Blackburn machinery. It went under though after a few months, maybe 7 years ago?

There is a similar venture doing the same with Brimar valves, again with old Mullard machines, that is still a going concern, let me have a dig around and see if I can't find the links.
 

buckaroo

Formerly Tweedguy
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Feb 17, 2009
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Several years ago I purchased a large bulk supply of NOS original boxed Amperex 12AX7 tubes made in the mid 1960’s. I would say those and 1960s era RCA 12AX7 and have proven to be my favorites in just about any Fandor amp. The biggest sleepers are probably the GE tubes From the same era.
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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Didn't a lot of those tube operations (including equipment) move to far east countries as tube production began to wind down?

Would be interesting to see if someone could revive those old machines and make exact replicas of the old tubes. I'm sure Reflektor and Shuguang have the ability.

Thanks for the tip on the RCA and GE tubes :hank
 

ourmaninthenorth

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Didn't a lot of those tube operations (including equipment) move to far east countries as tube production began to wind down?

Would be interesting to see if someone could revive those old machines and make exact replicas of the old tubes. I'm sure Reflektor and Shuguang have the ability.

Thanks for the tip on the RCA and GE tubes :hank

My understanding is that the Brimar project in the UK has been about bringing those Mullard machines back home from Eastern Europe, in an attempt at getting them re-commissioned to start making valves in Britain again.



The link to a website I have is a little confusing, I need to read it properly before I post it here.

:hmm
 

J.D.

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Yes, I think I found the Brimar project information that you are mentioning. Interesting. Looks like they have quite a bit of work to do yet.

On the same website, seems they are selling new production tubes under the Brimar name, but I'm assuming they are buying someone else's tubes and just rebranding them Brimar. Or are these their own exclusive tube designs just made by a 3rd party?
 

ourmaninthenorth

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Yes, I think I found the Brimar project information that you are mentioning. Interesting. Looks like they have quite a bit of work to do yet.

On the same website, seems they are selling new production tubes under the Brimar name, but I'm assuming they are buying someone else's tubes and just rebranding them Brimar. Or are these their own exclusive tube designs just made by a 3rd party?

I mailed them that very question yesterday, based entirely on reading their mission statement......

".......Our aim is to produce high quality vacuum tubes at an affordable price right here in Great Britain where the best engineers are today, still hungering after the reliability and classic sound they once produced. The process is complex as you can see from this public information film from the 1940s.



Brimar thermionic products is the result of the frustration of not being able to purchase high quality valves at a reasonable price. Formed from ‘The Great British Valve Project’ we have used the expertise of many engineers who have provided us with their preferred list of thermionic tubes. Whilst this may not be everybody’s choice, our tube range certainly embraces the wide scope of affordable valves and this we have to accept until the return of British valve manufacturing where Mullard, Brimar, Hivac & the MO Valve Co. were the world leaders....."
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
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I have been collecting NOS tubes for quite a while.
I have spent some money in the 'nuclear' options area.
The old military GE, RCA, Mullard and Raytheon are my primaries.
And quite a few "off branded" tubes because of it which were supposedly put out by the biggies but branded for consumer use?
Now I am playing with some cheaper NOS tubes that need adapters to work in the areas I need them.
I am finding some real surprises there.
I have been very happy with how they sound.
But I will admit that some new ones are not bad at all.
 

corpse

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Jun 9, 2007
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Finding old tubes is my alter egos mission. The only way is by word of mouth or scouring musty junk shops. Given the hours I have spent it is largely a worthless endevour. I have had a couple good scores. But really a waste of time.
That said old ones are the best. I would really like to get hard results on investigations of new production tubes and exactly which slots I should be putting my NOS glass in.
 
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