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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    The Super arrived yesterday- the date code on the tag is JL which is Dec 1960. It is in very nice shape. The color is mocha not the cocoa brown and except for a burn on the top near the handle the tolex is really good- there is a knot shadow nearby as well.

    For comparison my 62 VL.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    The Jensens have been reconed- last week in fact, as one of them was giving off a rattly death knell. The tubes are Ruby 5881- and there are a ton of 12AX7's (six to be exact). The clean tone is wonderful- I spent more than half my play time last night on the neck pick up of my '18 59. I think the 6G4 is very similar to the VL- it has that "swallowed" sound. I run it through a Tone Preserver dropping the voltage to 117V- these things predate UL so there is no comment about voltage or wattage on the back. Of primary note is the "harmonic" Vibrato- quite different from the VL or the Deluxe. With the speed and the rate at about 2/3 it is really similar to a leslie.
    I need some more time with it to get some range ideas; I haven't even plugged into the Normal channel yet.
    Wally or Sonar- the Presence knob does something- brightens the tone I want to say- but what is it actually doing? No where near as dramatic as a Marshall- but like the '63 Bassman I used to own- it's not that big of a deal- or is some cap out of spec?
    Last edited by corpse; 03-01-19 at 07:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    GREAT amp! Maybe my favorite of the Brownies.

    The tremolo on the Super is very dynamic and when healthy the amp has an outstanding overdrive. A little more front-forward in attack compared to a Tweed with great mids and as you mentioned the clean is to die for.

    The presence control is a high frequency boost that effects the power amp, unlike the tone controls that dampen the preamp. You'll get a little more upper mids to treble when playing clean, but it's not that overly drastic. When pushing the amp hard the Presence should really help shape your overdrive tone. It's kind of hard to describe, but for example when playing my old Marshall the only knob I fiddle with is the presence knob as that has a heavy influence on my ears when pushing the amp - going from somewhat "linear" to a more jagged overdrive.

    Anyway, congrats! That's an awesome amp and I'm officially jealous.

  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Quote Originally Posted by sonar View Post
    GREAT amp! Maybe my favorite of the Brownies.

    That's an awesome amp and I'm officially jealous.
    And that's really why we buy them isn't it?
    I have to mess with the presence more when overdriving it.

  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Member LeonC's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Love the 6G4-A Super! The harmonic tremolo always reminds me of a Univibe...errr...maybe I said that backwards ; It's the swampiest sounding "tremolo" around. Anyway, congrats and enjoy!
    Full Disclosure: I built Valclone Amps

  5. #5
    Administrator MikeSlub's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Amazing amps! I love the brown Super! Congrats!

    Mike Slubowski

    * "Gibson guitars are like potato chips - you can't have just one!"

    * "So many Gibsons to love, so little time..."

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member CoyotesGator's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Freaking Fan Fugu-Tastic!

    In the best of health.
    As I see it, I serve the beat. Groove is everything.

    Big Al

  7. #7
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    love seein those knots. especially on mint tweeds. then you have a pretty good idea its the real deal! the super is one of my faves they really crack when you turnem up
    Quote Originally Posted by corpse View Post
    The Super arrived yesterday- the date code on the tag is JL which is Dec 1960. It is in very nice shape. The color is mocha not the cocoa brown and except for a burn on the top near the handle the tolex is really good- there is a knot shadow nearby as well.

    For comparison my 62 VL.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    The Jensens have been reconed- last week in fact, as one of them was giving off a rattly death knell. The tubes are Ruby 5881- and there are a ton of 12AX7's (six to be exact). The clean tone is wonderful- I spent more than half my play time last night on the neck pick up of my '18 59. I think the 6G4 is very similar to the VL- it has that "swallowed" sound. I run it through a Tone Preserver dropping the voltage to 117V- these things predate UL so there is no comment about voltage or wattage on the back. Of primary note is the "harmonic" Vibrato- quite different from the VL or the Deluxe. With the speed and the rate at about 2/3 it is really similar to a leslie.
    I need some more time with it to get some range ideas; I haven't even plugged into the Normal channel yet.
    Wally or Sonar- the Presence knob does something- brightens the tone I want to say- but what is it actually doing? No where near as dramatic as a Marshall- but like the '63 Bassman I used to own- it's not that big of a deal- or is some cap out of spec?

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    I haven't been thru it yet, but my friend gets some good amps. This one came from a guys attic in Alaska- it belonged to his father- he bought it from an ad in a music magazine in the 1990's. Amazing folks traded like that back then. Him and his partner are pretty technical and they went thru it, checked the capacitor values and replaced the filter caps. it sat largely unplayed for 20+ years but they ran them up slowly with a variac annually. I have the originals caps- or the ones that replaced the original ones in a bag. The Trem is very strong and sci-fi and magical- which says the guts are in ok shape.
    I have had it up to 5+ and it is an authoritive sounding amp- as are those era Fenders- barks and really cuts thru. I missed having 10's- they are great. Whoever reconed them knew his stuff- he is in Minneapolis named "Benson" and specializes in Jensens I guess.

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    cant tell from the pic but the 60 should have the sharp front edge. the last '60' i got was a pro from a friend at a musicians swapmeet 1400 bucks and clean as a whitle (he always had great deals) i found out day before yesterday he passed from cancer. he was a good dude. life is short. you get a few good meals.. a few laughs and... seacrest out

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    In the picture with the VL you can really notice the edges are much sharper on the Super. Nothing I would notice if they weren’t side by side.

  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member Jeff West's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    corpse- If yours is "JL", I'd really be interested to confirm that it conforms to the 11/60 6G4-A schematic, circuit-wise.

    In the fall of 1960, like my "JI" (below) which looks just like yours, there was an "in between" brown Super circuit that had "6G4-A" on the tube chart and was 6 preamp tube circuit, but had quite different tone stack arrangement (not just different component values) and a few other circuit nuances. I've seen 6 or 7 of these, mainly from 9/60, there was one at Lark Street when I was last there a year ago which they were thinking was a "prototype". But apparently there was never an official Fender schematic for these (unlike for some other mid-late 1960 models that had a schematic depicting the same "in-between" Baxandall style tone stack, e.g., the schematic for the 6G8 Twin, dated 6/60). I'm guessing that yours is actually as depicted in the 6G4-A schematic, by December, like the couple of Jan '60 Supers I've examined.

    Jeff


  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    4-String- I’d be happy to but can’t until Thursday or Friday. Headed out of town. I love how Fender has the official production line reputation and all of these variations. I posted about my VL- it had a factory- installed linear pot that was supposed to be audio taper. What a great amp.

  13. #13
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Congrats, Corpse. That is a nice looking amp.
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Wally
    I have to resist just playing that one all the time- but the VL gives it a run for it's money. 4 String I know I owe you pics- I will get to it.

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp






    Jeff
    Well it's a good thing you didn't need a kidney or anything. The pic of the PT really vexed me as the amp is so pristine. There would have been no reason to replace it. It has the copper strip in it like some have (ground strap?)- but no marking. No idea. What would fry a PT? And why would it be replaced with such an unusual one- most of these have the all-black iron showing? My friend owned this for a long time and it was like this when he got it. Another Fender three legged dog story.
    I love this amp.

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Corpse, I see an ‘8087’ model number stamped on the inside bell cover of the PT. That much is correct. The choke looks to be correct. The OT??? Is there anything stamped on the paper? 45216?
    "As soon as man does not take his existence for granted, but beholds it as something unfathomably mysterious, thought begins." Albert Schweitzer

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member Jeff West's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Thanks for more photos, Corpse! In terms of the circuit, the easiest way to tell the 2nd version from the third version brown Super of 1960 is to look at the back of the bass pot on the Vibrato channel. The "2nd" or middle version will have small caps coming off both sides of the bass pot. The standard 6G4-A like the schematic, as in 1961-62 6G4-As, will have one side of the bass pot (the right, as you face the back of the pot) unconnected to anything. Bear in mind that both the "2nd" and "3rd" versions have "6G4-A" printed on the tube chart, and 6 preamp tubes. I'm not seeing the back of the pots in your photos, but since yours is 12/60 I strongly suspect it's the 3rd version like the 6G4-A schematic (with one terminal free on the bass pot). I looked at my notes and have reference to both 11/60 and 12/60 6G4-As like that. The "2nd" versions like mine all seem to be coded 9/60 and one 10/60, from what I've seen, so far. Maybe there are some slightly earlier ones. Both versions sound good, but the tone section definitely acts differently.

    Your transformers look good, and original, to me. Super of 1960 should have an open OT like that, usually inked 45216 on the paper, nothing stamped on the top of the metal. I'm not sure what you mean by "all black iron showing", but it should not be enclosed in metal like say a bassman, etc. Mine is enameled black, like yours, (and lacquer dipped) although I think I've seen bare metal versions too, maybe on slightly later wheat grille brown Supers, still open frame.

    At one point I had a tweed 5F6-A with the same 9/60 date code as my brown Super ("JI"). It deviated a little from the 5F6-A schematic, in the presence and tone controls section. The PTs in both amps looked exactly the same in all details.

    Enjoy-

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Thanks Jeff and Wally. I was nervous as I was used to seeing bare metal (galvized) OT and the PT with a Fender part number. Sonar said it was cool too so I slept (for the first time all week- LOL). The thing looks new to me- it is so clean.
    That is amazing- they were making pink/blonde- at the same time as tweed. I just visualize the conversion from one to the other as "flip the switch".

    And for my next trick I see a 1960 Pro...

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member Jeff West's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Corpse- Are those P10Rs in yours? It seems like most if not all 1960 Supers had P10Rs stock. In contrast, all the '60 5F6-As I've seen that had known original Jensens had four P10Qs, including that one with the same date code. It hardly seems fair. If you turn up, the Super can blow those small 1" paper voice coils in a heartbeat. They don't usually go open, just get very raspy and rubbing, or worse, in a one-way death dive.

    The Minnesota "Benson Recone" was Jim Benson Electro Organ Svc, 4055 Cinnabar Drive, Eagan, MN 55122. I had numerous original P10Rs and P10Qs reconed by him 20+ years ago, he was great. I'm still using some of those, carefully. I talked to him on the phone many times. He told me he used to do many brands, but then decided to specialize in Chicago Jensens. He had the exact old parts and good new parts, original paint, Jensen stickers, great knowledge of the many Jensen variants, exactly how they had been put together and how they sounded. I also bought a couple of NOS vintage Jensens from him. Do your P10Rs or Qs have "W533" written on the cones in a nice flowing hand? Not sure if he's still with us or what (anyone here know?). I've tried to find him a few times over the years, but never did anymore, and never found a definitve update on his status. But, as they say, his work carries on . . .

  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff West View Post
    Corpse- Are those P10Rs in yours?
    Yes- reconed by Benson recently

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member Jeff West's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    interesting- so he is still around and reconing? I'll try again for an updated contact, I have at least one long- blown vintage P10R
    Last edited by Jeff West; 06-06-19 at 10:50 AM.

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Very nice condition Super, you got a good one. I have a 1960 Concert with the Pink-Brown General Tire Tolex (JK) in all original condition, the light brown dogbone handle and the four Jensen P10Q speakers with the greenish original cones. On the P10Q Jensens the cones changed to a greenish hue over the years, this is how you can tell if they are original cones at a glance. No matter what people say leave the original yellow astrons in the amp. I also have the Fender Reverb unit in the same early Pinkish Brown Tolex with the original Footswitch. The early footswitch has the round silver Belden cable for the Reverb Units with the 1/4" Jack. The first run had a 10 foot long cable, the second version has a 15 foot long cable with the smaller shaft knurled shank 1/4" jack with the white phenolic tip on the switchcraft jack. The first ones have the same 1/4" jack they used on the Guitar cables, the longer 1/4" jack with the double knurled shaft. The footswitch for my 1960 Concert is the brown single switch with the older button type and a lamp cord type cable to the RCA phono jack. The four Jensen P10Q all have the magnet bell covers and they sound great with the 1-1/4" voice coils. Orange County did a great job reconing some Jensens for me years ago with quality cones for a 58 Bassman. The 6 pre-amp tube Brownies are very special amps. You will love yours. My Concert has the Triad tweed Bassman OT in it and the rare yellow Astron Silicon Diodes near the bias caps that look like mini Lobster buoys. A pair of Celestion Gold 10" speakers would be amazing in your Super. Another thing to inspect, on the 1960 Early brown amps the first Glides have bakelite inserts inside the glides and they crumble when the amp takes a hard drop. If you remove one glide you will see if they are the bakelite inserts or rubber inserts. If they are bakelite, I always remove mine and keep in a bag for safekeeping and install rubber inserted glides. Tehy uaed the bakelite inserts in the Sphinx glides on most of the early brownface amps, 2 of my Deluxe brownies have them and a Princeton. They were a poor choice in the design of the glides and really rare to find in unbroken condition. Most have crumbled over the years. Worth a look.

  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    I hear glides I think of feet- correct? Mine are metal and there appears to be some maybe bakelite in the middle. It is largely missing.
    Interesting -the 8087PT in there is the same as a 59 Bassman?

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Yes, The feet. Your originals are the early brown bakelite inserts. You can buy a set of new Glides the same size and just replace the rubber inserts in your originals. Then I use those stick on felt pads ( 3/4" ) on the glides so they don't rattle on tile floors.

    You scored on the Super. The 8087 Triad PT is the same as the Bassman. My 1960 Concert had the new SS PT with the tweed Bassman Triad OT. These are some of the best amps Fender ever made. I have a couple brown Deluxe and one is an Export model. If you look under your chassis near the PT you will see 2 extra holes drilled in the chassis, those were for the Export voltage select board that mounts inside the export amps. This was before the BF Exports with the red switch. This export type has a small pin that simply slides out into the next voltage select. The metal the pin slides into is a hard cold roll steel and the pin fits tight.


  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    I would leave the 1 Meg LIN Vol pot in the amp, it's no mistake. It's part of the magic.

    Fender used the 1 Meg LIN Vol pots in almost all the larger tweed amps, My 1956 Bassman 2-holer has the two 1 Meg LIN Vol pots in it, and my 1957, 58,59 and 1960 tweed Twins all have the 1 Meg LIN Vol pots. All the Bassmans, Pro, Super and Bandmaster all have 1 Meg LIN Vol Pots and not the 1 Meg Audio Pots displayed in the schematics. If you look at any of these tweed amps you will see the 1 Meg LIN Vol Pots. My 1959 Twin has one LIN and one Log Vol Pot, the only amp that has one of each.

    If any of you have the old Tweeds I listed, look at the vol pots and see they are LIN taper.

    For some reason the Fender techs like the sweep on the Linear tapered Vol pots.

  26. #26
    Les Paul Forum Member Skydogfan81's Avatar
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    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Wow, its a beaut! Congrats!
    Get Something out of Everything!

  27. #27

    Re: NVAD 1960 Fender Super Amp

    Congrats! That is a beautiful looking amp.

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