HELP: Faber ABR-59 vs. Historic ABR-1

​Quick scenario: Just purchased a new 2018 Les Paul 1958 60th Anniversary from Wildwood. Perfect setup, perfect intonation, chimey, notes ring out—no buzzing. The only thing I don’t like is that overtime (albeit in looong time) the bridge will sink and the high e doesn’t quuuuuuite clear the back of ABR-1, plus when I changed a set of strings for the first time my G string saddle popped out (plus, the G eeever so slightly is dead around the 12-14th fret—but not noticeable plugged in, whatsoever, but...anyway). No bueno.

My thought process: I just had a 2016 SG setup at RS Guitarworks with the prenotched, aged nickel saddles, Faber ABR-59 and I love it. However, Roy had to dress the frets, but no issues, rings out

clearly all over and up to the last fret on all strings.
So, I like the piece of mind that comes with the Faber having the saddles locked in, more saddle travel, tighter fabrication, tolerances. Again: I bought the same nickel aged, pre-notche, Faber ABR-59.

All things being equal to guitar’s neck relief, string guage, thumbwheel screws/posts and tailpiece height, I put the Faber on and adjusted to the action and ballparked the same spacing of the saddles for intonation and as luck would have it only the high e was sharp on the 12th and set it dead on.

Action was reset exactly the same: low E @ 3.5/64ths, high e @ 4/64ths.

Issues: the B has slight sitar buzz open, high e and B strings are dead around 14-19th fret area which was not the case with the Historic ABR-1. Also, the high e and B strings choke out at and above a whole tone. The notched saddles where slightly to the right of the bridge pole pieces.

Resolved issues: the G string is not dead anymore, and the strings have a not as steep angle from the ABR-59 to the tailpiece therefore it clears the back of the ABR-59 without any problem (which I suspect is the intent).

Now, I just can’t live with the e and B string issues. I was expecting a lower mid difference in tone and there IS.

Here are my questions, as I am not a luthier but I understand the physics and I did tinker around with tailpiece height and thumbwheel height but for the sake of keeping a scientific “control” I returned them to the specs.

Could the problem(s) be:

1. The material of the Faber saddles are different to the Historic ABR-1?
2. Faber saddle radius is off?
3. Faber slots on the high e and B are too big (all pre-notches look the same, unlike the Gibson Historic ABR-1 notches are graduated for the string width—which is visiblely noticable) or they need to filed?
4. Thumbwheel posts need to also be upgraded to Faber?
5. Saddle slots on high e and B are slightly too deep (however, all things being equal with action set at 4/64ths on the high e, why would they choke out? Less pressure from decreased pitch from the tailpiece to the saddle slot?)

Anyways, I put the Historic ABR-1 and set it back to as it was and all was as is exactly as before with the slightly dead G string but no choked out notes, ringing out beautifully and slight increase in chime (as it was in the first place).

But I’m curious and was hoping anyone had some insight.

Thanks.

Not sure if they interchange - but if so take the g saddle from the Faber to the Gibson bridge to see if that cures the deadness?? Why not just raise the tp ever so slightly so e clears back of bridge?

from my experience buzzing is caused by strings hitting the frets (low action, wrong relief or slots to deep). Sitaring is something i relate to slots that are too wide or extreme cases of magnetpull.


However - Ive had the same symptoms you describe when topwrapping - all other variables unchanged I suddenly got both slight buzz, dead notes and fretout. In general terms regular wrapping allows me to run a lower action without loss to tone or playability. Intonated for 10-46 i bring the tp up ever so slightly (1/5th of a turn) on the trebleside - fully down on the basside - to clear back of bridge. So i guess if the brakangle towards tp is lower with the Faber - try raising the action ever so slighlty?

Dont know if this is exactly what you are asking in your post. But those are my thoughts - hehe.

I appreciate your thoughts! But, the with the Faber, the strings do clear the back of the ABR. And all things being the same, with the Faber, I get buzz on the b and dead notes on the high e and b. On the Historic ABR-1 the sound is fine, but overtime and the functionality of the ABR-1 will diminish. Just surprised that the faber isn’t better than the ABR-1. And no, the saddles and threads are not interchangeable. Different size and thread count.

Oh, and I did mess with the tailpiece, et al, quite extensively and found nuances, different problems, etc. but didn’t post about them because that would confuse things further.

Keep the thoughts coming though!

pippo said:

Not sure if they interchange - but if so take the g saddle from the Faber to the Gibson bridge to see if that cures the deadness?? Why not just raise the tp ever so slightly so e clears back of bridge?

from my experience buzzing is caused by strings hitting the frets (low action, wrong relief or slots to deep). Sitaring is something i relate to slots that are too wide or extreme cases of magnetpull.


However - Ive had the same symptoms you describe when topwrapping - all other variables unchanged I suddenly got both slight buzz, dead notes and fretout. In general terms regular wrapping allows me to run a lower action without loss to tone or playability. Intonated for 10-46 i bring the tp up ever so slightly (1/5th of a turn) on the trebleside - fully down on the basside - to clear back of bridge. So i guess if the brakangle towards tp is lower with the Faber - try raising the action ever so slighlty?

Dont know if this is exactly what you are asking in your post. But those are my thoughts - hehe.

Click to expand...

I see! My (unqualified at best ...) guess is that the e and b saddles in the Faber are cut too deep or wide - or have a bad fit in the slot in the bridge somehow..
One thing to try is if the holes in the bridge have wiggleroom for the posts a slight push can relocate it in the direction you need - but then you Said you had good intonation so that is probably not it..


when talking about raising the tp slightly I was referring to keeping the abr1 in the guitar.

hope you get it sorted - even if the deadness isnt audible through an amp it kills the feeling of the guitar

Interesting thread . I recently had a new old stock ABR-1 installed on a Les Paul of mine that my tech had to cut the slots for and I think this is something that bridges that are pre cut like the Faber might not be the best thing for all Gibson's . I forgot to mention to you that maybe you should have ket the ABR1 that came with your Les Paul ? Maybe if it was still workable ?

That’s what I’m thinking too. Thanks for resonding. Anyone else have an idea?

El Gringo said:

Interesting thread . I recently had a new old stock ABR-1 installed on a Les Paul of mine that my tech had to cut the slots for and I think this is something that bridges that are pre cut like the Faber might not be the best thing for all Gibson's

Click to expand...

I just bought a 2018 historic from wildwood and had to have a new bridge sent to me for these exact same reasons. New bridge worked like a charm. Saddle slots on low E and G were too deep. G string sounded dull. Not dead, but didn't ring out as clearly. The buzzing can be fixed by either installing a secured ABR-1 style bridge or to keep the traditional historic one, If it starts buzzing, I loosen the string and seat the screw back down and hold it while I tune back up to pitch until the tension secures it down. I have a Gotoh GE104B on my 1990 classic and it works great. I may end up replacing it with one on my historic, but for now it's doing just fine. Good luck!

Saddles: Well... Brass is not all equal. There are different grades of brass from very soft to very hard. I can tell you that the grade of brass that Gibson uses for saddles is probably the least expensive grade that works.
What you want is this: https://abm-guitarpartsshop.com/ABM...0-RE/Bell-Brass/ABM-2500n-RE-Nickel::153.html
Best sounding/working T-O-M on the market! I have this on every guitar with a Tune-o-matic I own! Very Significant improvement in sustain & clarity
I would also get a pair of 2" brass 6/32" posts and the Creamtone Steel Thumbwheels.

Sitar sounds are often caused by improper filing of saddles. try a steeper angel over the saddle.