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Why did you buy a collector's choice guitar?

Jwehrman

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
54
I got a Reeder because it was an amazing guitar. I didn't know much about the original, nor did I really care. In a way that made it better, there wasn't much hype to be lived up to. There were two in the store at the time I got this one. The other one was nice, but the flame was too much of a symetrical chevron for my taste. I suspect it was a Frehley that was re-purposed. The one I got stood out from all of the other reissues I tried. The flame and color were crazy amazing to me. The top carve is also a bit deeper than the other '17's of that time. And this one has a unique chirp to the higher end that almost mimics a French jazz horn - to my ears.
 

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iknowpeanuts

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
35
I had been searching for a nice LP for the longest time and i grew tired trying to find one that I loved vs one that i liked. i started off with far more modest budget but after countless demos being unable to find a traditional and a standard that i was happy with, sound-wise, i wound up going down the custom shop route cos i felt like i was a lot closer to what i had in mind.

I wasn't specifically looking for a CC but when the cc4 came around i felt compelled to stretch for it. In addition to the fact this cc is very well thought of, it sounded great and the rest of it aint bad either. 2pc non-brazillian board, fijian mahogany and other minutiae aside, this is virtually the closest i'd ever get in terms of feel to a real one – it's a clone after all with the neck profile and top carve being an exact copy and i remember tom saying that the clones felt very close with tiny differences. I would think the historics were based on profiles of actual bursts and at the end of the day the only thing that matters was whether or not I liked how it felt in my hands, but knowing for sure which burst it was based on was just the icing on the cake for me.
 
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duaneflowers

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,522
My first CC was CC#3 (The Babe) which I fell in love with at first sight. I didn't know anything at all about the original at that time and so that had absolutely no influence on the buying decision. It was just an amazing guitar that I felt was head and shoulders above other offerings at the time. Soon after that I bought my CC#4 (Sandy) and again the original had absolutely no impact on my decision to purchase it as it stood soundly (pun intended) on its own merits. It was only many months later that I actually even compared it to the original and it was obvious that whoever picked the top had never actually seen the original as the two are as different as night and day (although they did get the color correct). Next I bought (CC#8) Beast which I thought was just the most amazing guitar ever. Next came (CC#7) Shanks and (CC#16) Redeye as I found them to be absolutely the best Gibson had to offer at the time. I felt the CCs and Sigs were a cut above and felt like that until they started pumping out new ones every other day and while I had long waited for (CC#5) Donna at the time it was finally issued there were so many other options at the time it was lost in a sea of choices and there was no GAS at all for it when it finally came out. By then my attention had turned toward finding earlier ones, so I bought my Aged and VOS Goldies (CC#2) and my Greeny (CC#1) when people here in Japan were trading them in on younger models.

I still feel those earlier CCs and Sigs had more attention to detail, more individuality and more care put into the builds themselves and pretty much lost interest when they started releasing new ones more frequently even though I felt the quality of those was still the best Gibson had to offer. I still have them all and don't plan on letting any of them go any time soon...

52854038_10217525383543043_3066266999035265024_n.jpg
 

iknowpeanuts

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
35
...I still feel those earlier CCs and Sigs had more attention to detail, more individuality and more care put into the builds themselves...

That's genuinely interesting. From your experience, what are examples of details and care that were lacking in later CCs? if you don't mind me asking, of course.
 

duaneflowers

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,522
That's genuinely interesting. From your experience, what are examples of details and care that were lacking in later CCs? if you don't mind me asking, of course.

I remember when CC#1 (Greeny) came out... from a buyer's POV it seemed unique and rather special in that it was a limited run and sought to represent/reproduce the best of the best. The flipped mag and reversal of the neck pup made it stand out from a distance (even though its a mod anyone can perform), as did the aging and aesthetics (e.g., Gary's knobs). It seemed Gibson spent some time building just the right amount of hype and left no stone unturned in getting as many of the details as right as possible in the creation of its masterpiece... as they did with Pearly. At least that was the perception, which, many years later I can still feel, acknowledge and appreciate.

It was quite a while before we saw CC#2 (Goldie) and again there was a noticeable attention to uniqueness and detail. The double thumbwheels made it identifiable from a distance as did its unique aging and partnership with the Cherry Gloss version representing what Goldie would've looked like when she was brand spankin'. With the Bigsby and plaintop of CC#3 (the Babe) and the Zebras of CC#4 (Sandy) and the hotter neck pup of CC#7 (Shanks) and the killerness (is that a word?) of CC#8 (the Beast) and, er. red eye of Redeye there was something different in each of these guitars that attracted me to them and made them manifestly unique and cool... and hence utterly desirable.

In the early days (up to 2013) Gibson seemed to be taking their time with them which made them all the more special and GAS inducing. When they started mass producing them at breakneck speed, that perception of "more attention to detail, more individuality and more care" in general seemed to have been lost somewhere along the way. Suddenly there was just a ton of them available everywhere you looked, and whereas they were once rare they became rather commonplace and the later releases didn't really seem to represent anything special or unique. I mean look at Henry's goldtop... there is absolutely nothing at all special about it and nothing worthy of it being dubbed a Collector's Choice. The same can be said about quite a few of them.

I still think that even the later releases are amazing guitars, but even the prices reflect that they are no more special than the custom shop's other offerings. I still think they are a cut above the others in wood selection and aesthetics. But the pickups are all off the shelf with nothing unique about them which for me is just downright lazy from a custom shop that can do so much more.

Had they carried on releasing them every once in a while and keeping them at the top of the pyramid the later ones would be just as amazing and desirable as the early ones... but as it stands they just don't stack up in my book which is why I turned my attention to finding some of the early ones, which remain my favorites.

I hope that clarifies... and again, its just my perception which will no doubt differ from that of others. :salude
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
The CCs are great. The ones I owned exemplified everything I like about the post 2012 Historics. Some of the later ones such as Nicky and Carmelita have true historic specs. JD Simo did a video with Nicky through an earlier Marshall Bluesbreaker and the tone is one of the best Les Paul tones I’ve heard

Please keep in mind that every guitar made out of wood will have its own unique tone. There will always be some variation because of the tone woods used are they will never identical from guitar to guitar. The CCs use the same wood used in the historic line and the same construction methods.


Where the extra attention to the CCs comes in is:
A. selection of maple top wood to aesthetically matchthe Burst being emulated
B. top carve and neck carve to match the target Burst.
C. Pickups are wound to match the dc resistance of the target pickups (if this DC info is available)
On the Greeny Burst the polartity of the magnets is reversed so that that the middle position is out of phase and Charles Daughtry spec’d in custom Burstbuckers for Nicky

I think the CCs are extremely cool. The Beast and Greeny are aesthetically my favorites. Some of these early ones tend to be more expensive and sought after even though they lack the true historic specs of the later ones because the Bursts they emulate are just more iconic and thus demand is greater. As far as attention to detail is concerned, every post 2012 historic or cc I’ve owned or played has been stellar with regard to fit, finish and playabilty with tone being a variable from very good to great depending on the particular guitar. Binding bleed would be the only exception to this.

4 very cool CCs to consider: 1 early and 3 later are tributes to Bursts owned by LPF founders Charles Daughtry and Tom Wittrock and include Sandy, Nicky, Carmelita and Donna with the later 3 having true historic specs.



That's genuinely interesting. From your experience, what are examples of details and care that were lacking in later CCs? if you don't mind me asking, of course.
 

MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,166
2015_Gibson_Les_Paul_CC_24_Nicky.jpg

2015_Gibson_Les_Paul_CC_5_Donna_SN_12.jpg

2016_Gibson_Les_Paul_Collectors_Choice_35_Gruhn_Burst.jpg

Guess I got a bit carried away with Collectors Choice models! :dude:
 

LeonC

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2002
Messages
799
Here are my Collectors Choice guitars (2 threads):
2010_Gibson_Les_Paul_Historic_Gary_Moore_Aged.JPG

2012%20Gibson%20Les%20Paul%20Historic%20Collectors%20Choice%206%20SN%2011.jpg


...
2014_Gibson_Les_Paul_Collectors_Choice_30_Gabby.jpg

2015_Gibson_Les_Paul_CC_24_Nicky.jpg

2015_Gibson_Les_Paul_CC_5_Donna_SN_12.jpg

2016_Gibson_Les_Paul_Collectors_Choice_35_Gruhn_Burst.jpg

Guess I got a bit carried away with Collectors Choice models! :dude:


One gets the distinct impression that you like these guitars :biggrin:

How many CCs you've owned/tried would you say compare favorably with original "golden era" Les Pauls you've played and owned? None? Most? A few? All?
 

MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,166
One gets the distinct impression that you like these guitars :biggrin:

How many CCs you've owned/tried would you say compare favorably with original "golden era" Les Pauls you've played and owned? None? Most? A few? All?

IMO none compare with my vintage Bursts, especially if you sit down with a nice clean amp and listen to the nuances. That is also the opinion of some players I respect who have A/B'd them. However, the differences can sometimes be subtle. The CC's are great guitars that play well and sound awesome. :hank
 

iknowpeanuts

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
35
I remember when CC#1 (Greeny) came out... from a buyer's POV it seemed unique and rather special in that it was a limited run and sought to represent/reproduce the best of the best. The flipped mag and reversal of the neck pup made it stand out from a distance (even though its a mod anyone can perform), as did the aging and aesthetics (e.g., Gary's knobs). It seemed Gibson spent some time building just the right amount of hype and left no stone unturned in getting as many of the details as right as possible in the creation of its masterpiece... as they did with Pearly. At least that was the perception, which, many years later I can still feel, acknowledge and appreciate.

It was quite a while before we saw CC#2 (Goldie) and again there was a noticeable attention to uniqueness and detail. The double thumbwheels made it identifiable from a distance as did its unique aging and partnership with the Cherry Gloss version representing what Goldie would've looked like when she was brand spankin'. With the Bigsby and plaintop of CC#3 (the Babe) and the Zebras of CC#4 (Sandy) and the hotter neck pup of CC#7 (Shanks) and the killerness (is that a word?) of CC#8 (the Beast) and, er. red eye of Redeye there was something different in each of these guitars that attracted me to them and made them manifestly unique and cool... and hence utterly desirable.

In the early days (up to 2013) Gibson seemed to be taking their time with them which made them all the more special and GAS inducing. When they started mass producing them at breakneck speed, that perception of "more attention to detail, more individuality and more care" in general seemed to have been lost somewhere along the way. Suddenly there was just a ton of them available everywhere you looked, and whereas they were once rare they became rather commonplace and the later releases didn't really seem to represent anything special or unique. I mean look at Henry's goldtop... there is absolutely nothing at all special about it and nothing worthy of it being dubbed a Collector's Choice. The same can be said about quite a few of them.

I still think that even the later releases are amazing guitars, but even the prices reflect that they are no more special than the custom shop's other offerings. I still think they are a cut above the others in wood selection and aesthetics. But the pickups are all off the shelf with nothing unique about them which for me is just downright lazy from a custom shop that can do so much more.

Had they carried on releasing them every once in a while and keeping them at the top of the pyramid the later ones would be just as amazing and desirable as the early ones... but as it stands they just don't stack up in my book which is why I turned my attention to finding some of the early ones, which remain my favorites.

I hope that clarifies... and again, its just my perception which will no doubt differ from that of others. :salude

I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and you make a really good point regarding the later CCs being none more special than the regular reissues – some of them don't look any different from a regular historic. That said, i came across a really nice Kathryn but (though more of how it sounded) i couldnt afford to take her home at the time.

I actually missed out on a redeye at a very good price and was kicking myself when Sandy came along. She was far more expensive and i was initially quite tentative – but i bit the bullet on the strength on how it sounded and its 'pedigree'. The lack of true historic specs and the 2 pc board controversy bothered me at first but eventually i decided that if it sounds good and the community regarded it well then the specs didnt really matter. at that point of time i dont think i would have done the same had it been kathryn. Kathryn was amazing but Sandy had that something special about her (to me at least) that moved me enough to make the leap.
 

LeonC

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2002
Messages
799
IMO none compare with my vintage Bursts, especially if you sit down with a nice clean amp and listen to the nuances. That is also the opinion of some players I respect who have A/B'd them. However, the differences can sometimes be subtle. The CC's are great guitars that play well and sound awesome. :hank

Thanks very much for your input Mike!
 

iknowpeanuts

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
35
The CCs are great. The ones I owned exemplified everything I like about the post 2012 Historics. Some of the later ones such as Nicky and Carmelita have true historic specs. JD Simo did a video with Nicky through an earlier Marshall Bluesbreaker and the tone is one of the best Les Paul tones I’ve heard

Please keep in mind that every guitar made out of wood will have its own unique tone. There will always be some variation because of the tone woods used are they will never identical from guitar to guitar. The CCs use the same wood used in the historic line and the same construction methods.


Where the extra attention to the CCs comes in is:
A. selection of maple top wood to aesthetically matchthe Burst being emulated
B. top carve and neck carve to match the target Burst.
C. Pickups are wound to match the dc resistance of the target pickups (if this DC info is available)
On the Greeny Burst the polartity of the magnets is reversed so that that the middle position is out of phase and Charles Daughtry spec’d in custom Burstbuckers for Nicky

I think the CCs are extremely cool. The Beast and Greeny are aesthetically my favorites. Some of these early ones tend to be more expensive and sought after even though they lack the true historic specs of the later ones because the Bursts they emulate are just more iconic and thus demand is greater. As far as attention to detail is concerned, every post 2012 historic or cc I’ve owned or played has been stellar with regard to fit, finish and playabilty with tone being a variable from very good to great depending on the particular guitar. Binding bleed would be the only exception to this.

4 very cool CCs to consider: 1 early and 3 later are tributes to Bursts owned by LPF founders Charles Daughtry and Tom Wittrock and include Sandy, Nicky, Carmelita and Donna with the later 3 having true historic specs.

i saw that video! JD is sick. a great salesman for historics...

bursts like the beast, greeny, sandy, nicky to my mind are what i love about vintage LPs aesthetically. It would be a dream to own a cc1 tho. thats pretty much my childhood on the wall.
 

iknowpeanuts

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
35
IMO none compare with my vintage Bursts, especially if you sit down with a nice clean amp and listen to the nuances. That is also the opinion of some players I respect who have A/B'd them. However, the differences can sometimes be subtle. The CC's are great guitars that play well and sound awesome. :hank

What a spectacular collection, thanks for sharing.

What you said just reminds me of that video where bernie marsden plays a couple of reissues along with the beast. everything sounds killer and then the beast comes up and your jaw simply hits the ground...
 

garywright

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
15,586
IMO none compare with my vintage Bursts, especially if you sit down with a nice clean amp and listen to the nuances. That is also the opinion of some players I respect who have A/B'd them. However, the differences can sometimes be subtle. The CC's are great guitars that play well and sound awesome. :hank

Hey Mike ...I agree with you and coming from a man like yourself who owns/owned hundreds of les Pauls carrys a lot of weight ...some posters here love to play the ..can you tell blindfolded, recorded, or while watching a joe blow YouTube video angle ..but to really critique an individual guitar you need to have it in your own hand with a pick/fingers an amp and a pair of human ears ...the way a guitar responds and it’s own nuances won’t come through accurately via the media
 
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garywright

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
15,586
On topic ..while I don’t own a CC model ..I do own a 2k r9 that is a fantastic guitar ..not up to par with my burst but it’s one that I treasure and a definite keeper
 

BoomGuru

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
104
I own a few Collector's Choice - IMHO, the most versatile and the first I always pick up is The Beast CC8.


40198201783_2b309c36f1_k.jpg


47111080672_739b2000d0_k.jpg
 
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