• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

My new 1958 les paull replica

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
If you want to pay Gibson 6 or 7 k for a reissue of a 59 with plastic lacquers, farm raised wood and electronics that are not even close to
an original 59, that is your right to do so, I'd rather pay a private luthier to use old growth woods and the correct parts true to
a 59. You can call replicas fakes all day long, it doesn't bother me. I like them for the tone and the feel. I pickup the Gibson true historics
and feel as though those are fake 59's.. They're still great guitars, but not as true to a 59 as some of us would like. It's about what you like.

And where does the forged logos play into this "better" guitar?
Do these guitars play and sound better because the logos? I defy anyone to prove that.

If it's about "what you like", would you own one that did not have the forged logos?
If not, why not? :ganz
 

NYCBURST

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
288
I didn't say it was because they owned them. Go back and read my posts. You have jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I call people "posers" who demand that Gibson and Les Paul be written on their replicas and will not buy them otherwise.

I also asked what other purpose is their for forging these names and never got an answer.
Please answer that question NYCBURST. :hmm

Tom, Why would you Have a complete replica without the logo?
 

Patek

Active member
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
415
well it's not a replica it's a fake, a ripoff. Otherwise it would not have Gibson on it as they are still in business.

Oxford English Dictionary:

[COLOR=rgba(17, 50, 111, 0.909804)]replica
UK <amp-audio class="circle fcdo fcdo-volume-up i-amphtml-element i-amphtml-layout-fixed i-amphtml-layout-size-defined i-amphtml-layout" controlslist="nodownload" height="30px" width="30px" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: inline-block; position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 50%; border-top-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-left-radius: 50%; text-align: center; font-stretch: normal; line-height: 30px; font-family: cdoicons; font-size: 0.875em; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); vertical-align: middle; text-rendering: auto; background-color: rgb(232, 68, 39); width: 30px; height: 30px; overflow: hidden !important;"><audio controls="" controlslist="nodownload" class="i-amphtml-fill-content" style="width: 100px; height: 0px; min-height: 31px; --inline-controls-bar-height: 31px; box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: block; vertical-align: baseline; max-height: 100%; max-width: none; margin: auto; opacity: 0; position: absolute; top: 0px; left: 0px; bottom: 0px; right: 0px;"></audio></amp-audio> /ˈrep.lɪ.kə/ US <amp-audio class="circle fcdo fcdo-volume-up i-amphtml-element i-amphtml-layout-fixed i-amphtml-layout-size-defined i-amphtml-layout" controlslist="nodownload" height="30px" width="30px" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: inline-block; position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 50%; border-top-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-left-radius: 50%; text-align: center; font-stretch: normal; line-height: 30px; font-family: cdoicons; font-size: 0.875em; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); vertical-align: middle; text-rendering: auto; background-color: rgb(232, 68, 39); width: 30px; height: 30px; overflow: hidden !important;"><audio controls="" controlslist="nodownload" class="i-amphtml-fill-content" style="width: 100px; height: 0px; min-height: 31px; --inline-controls-bar-height: 31px; box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: block; vertical-align: baseline; max-height: 100%; max-width: none; margin: auto; opacity: 0; position: absolute; top: 0px; left: 0px; bottom: 0px; right: 0px;"></audio></amp-audio> /ˈrep.lɪ.kə/
[/COLOR]

an exactcopy of an object:

The ship is an exact replica of the original Golden Hind.





 

Pellman73

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
1,762
maybe they aren't replicas but REPLICANTS

if there was an accurate test to tell if they were real or not such as the Voight-Kampff test we would not have to worry about authentication

Ask your guitar what it would do if it found a tortoise flipped over in the desert... how it responds will tell you if its a real burst or just a replicant





BTW not that we are going to get anywhere here with our own version of the border wall stand off but I"d like to take a poll. All you need to do is AGREE or DISAGREE with the following three statements

1) It is wrong to put Gibson or LES PAUL MODEL on a guitar that's not made by Gibson

2) Any burst style guitar that was made by anyone after 1960 is a burst replica

3) Burst replicas made by Gibson are above board both morally and legally

4) Burst replicas not made by Gibson are more of an outlaw kind of thing that may, if done TOO WELL muddy the waters of the burst market and potentially hurt someone in the future if you die tragically and you family tries to sell it because they don't know you got it from some dude and its not real.

What are Collectors Choice guitars? they are REPLICAS of real bursts.... in fact... what other word can you use?

"The Gibson Custom Shop has used a combination of state-of-the-art technology and good old-fashioned elbow grease to painstakingly replicate the unique finishes, broken-in neck profiles and pickups of the originals, and the resulting guitars are nearly indistinguishable from their vintage counterparts. Needless to say, this is about as close as it gets to the real thing."


https://wildwoodguitars.com/product-category/electrics/gibson-custom-shop/collectors-choice/

if we can all agree that anything made after 1960 that is supposed to be like a burst is a replica then we can get somewhere. THEY ARE ALL REPLICAS. its just whether or not they were made by Gibson or Not...

just like in blade runner there are some replicas that are BAD.... maybe we can call the off brand les pauls like that.
 

JReeves

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
34
Oxford English Dictionary:

[COLOR=rgba(17, 50, 111, 0.909804)]replica
UK <amp-audio class="circle fcdo fcdo-volume-up i-amphtml-element i-amphtml-layout-fixed i-amphtml-layout-size-defined i-amphtml-layout" controlslist="nodownload" height="30px" width="30px" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: inline-block; position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 50%; border-top-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-left-radius: 50%; text-align: center; font-stretch: normal; line-height: 30px; font-family: cdoicons; font-size: 0.875em; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); vertical-align: middle; text-rendering: auto; background-color: rgb(232, 68, 39); width: 30px; height: 30px; overflow: hidden !important;"><audio controls="" controlslist="nodownload" class="i-amphtml-fill-content" style="width: 100px; height: 0px; min-height: 31px; --inline-controls-bar-height: 31px; box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: block; vertical-align: baseline; max-height: 100%; max-width: none; margin: auto; opacity: 0; position: absolute; top: 0px; left: 0px; bottom: 0px; right: 0px;"></audio></amp-audio> /ˈrep.lɪ.kə/ US <amp-audio class="circle fcdo fcdo-volume-up i-amphtml-element i-amphtml-layout-fixed i-amphtml-layout-size-defined i-amphtml-layout" controlslist="nodownload" height="30px" width="30px" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: inline-block; position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 50%; border-top-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-right-radius: 50%; border-bottom-left-radius: 50%; text-align: center; font-stretch: normal; line-height: 30px; font-family: cdoicons; font-size: 0.875em; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); vertical-align: middle; text-rendering: auto; background-color: rgb(232, 68, 39); width: 30px; height: 30px; overflow: hidden !important;"><audio controls="" controlslist="nodownload" class="i-amphtml-fill-content" style="width: 100px; height: 0px; min-height: 31px; --inline-controls-bar-height: 31px; box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; display: block; vertical-align: baseline; max-height: 100%; max-width: none; margin: auto; opacity: 0; position: absolute; top: 0px; left: 0px; bottom: 0px; right: 0px;"></audio></amp-audio> /ˈrep.lɪ.kə/
[/COLOR]

an exactcopy of an object:

The ship is an exact replica of the original Golden Hind.







it's using someone else's property for profit. what do you call that?
 

JerryMorganJR

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Messages
10
I never comment on the forum. Im just here for the "Burst of the week" photos. I will chime in though. It's a big responsibility owning a replica with the Gibson logo, making sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands. Then again, it's possible to rework a headstock and slap on Gibson logo as well. That's really all I can say about this subject. It's scary that they've been sold for big bucks as the real thing. As a young luthier, I can respect the work and detail that goes into them. The Bartlett in the beginning of the thread is gorgeous.

I've built some 59 LP style guitars, but the only thing I really tried replicating is the finish. Nothing that could ever pass as the real deal, as far as shapes and logos. I've not seen many realistic looking aged goldtops either. Something I hope to try out in the near future. Maybe I'll share with the forum and quit hiding in the shadows. 😎
 

Patek

Active member
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
415
it's using someone else's property for profit. what do you call that?

Totally understand what you’re saying. But What are historic and Bavarian / other Makeovers doing then?

By the time they’re done the only thing left is the piece of wood in the neck and the body, even the logos and silk screen are changed. The result is anything but an R9 and could equally be sold off as a real burst if all the hardware and electronics are changed to all original. So the chance of mistaken identity is equal with that of a replica
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
If you want to pay Gibson 6 or 7 k for a reissue of a 59 with plastic lacquers, farm raised wood and electronics that are not even close to
an original 59, that is your right to do so, I'd rather pay a private luthier to use old growth woods and the correct parts true to
a 59. You can call replicas fakes all day long, it doesn't bother me. I like them for the tone and the feel. I pickup the Gibson true historics
and feel as though those are fake 59's.. They're still great guitars, but not as true to a 59 as some of us would like. It's about what you like.

Honestly I’d put my two historics up against any replica. I’m in The NY area too. You ever want to have a tone showdown, lol, feel free to hit me up

Even if we suppose the guy comfortable with infringing on someone’s intellectual property actually uses the old wood he alleges, how does he know the lumber providers he uses aren’t equally casual about laws and ethics. Is this mythic old wood carbon dated by the Luthier or is there a chain of custody dating back to the great mythic forest the log was felled from in 1902? Old wood sounds like extra virgin olive oil, unless you buy an actual burst, you never know what you’re going to get

I have no clue what you’re talking about regarding electronics since last I looked these fakes didn’t come equipped with genuine Pafs. Preference does not equal better. There are a wide variety of excellent PAF reproductions including the custom buckers.

Drink all the old wood coolaid you want but until you can show me a scintilla actual data that all old wood sounds better than all new wood and that the fake Les Paul your slinging actually has this mythic old wood, save the farm raised condescending BS for the fish market. The one thing I know buying my Brazilian R9 from Gibson is that all the correct species of woods are used, and the build methods follow the original recipe where it counts.
.
 

ourmaninthenorth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,119
Totally understand what you’re saying. But What are historic and Bavarian / other Makeovers doing then?

By the time they’re done the only thing left is the piece of wood in the neck and the body, even the logos and silk screen are changed. The result is anything but an R9 and could equally be sold off as a real burst if all the hardware and electronics are changed to all original. So the chance of mistaken identity is equal with that of a replica


There's a raft of evidence based material on this very forum to demonstrate where fakes have muddied the waters, don't remember an occasion where a makeover of a Gibson made guitar has caused similar problems. I may be wrong, any examples?

If, as you suggest, someone is fooled by a makeover guitar to the tune of 'Burst money, I'd suggest that individual doesn't have enough numbers in their phone book of people who wouldn't be.

Isn't it a shame that one has to exercise such caution on not only Vintage guitars?

The game really is toxic. It has been made so.
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
This just gets so wild claims a nice R9 does not deliver ? But my replica does although I've never played a Burst or held a burst or been in the same room !
 

JReeves

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
34
Totally understand what you’re saying. But What are historic and Bavarian / other Makeovers doing then?

I don't see a problem with buying something from the rightful brand owner and modding it however you want.

By the time they’re done the only thing left is the piece of wood in the neck and the body, even the logos and silk screen are changed. The result is anything but an R9 and could equally be sold off as a real burst if all the hardware and electronics are changed to all original. So the chance of mistaken identity is equal with that of a replica

caveat emptor, like always. you could call a modded Gibson a replica, but these so-called 'replicas' made by other builders are fakes. I wouldn't want to own or play stolen property, it's disheartening that others are proud of their ethical lapses.
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
Get off your high horses already.


If you buy a Gibson you support an ownership who gets a fat bottom line from building guitars in factories where Gibson supervisors have seen innocent women being beaten to a bloody pulp on a factory floor for making a little mistake.


I know, getting ripped off is a much bigger deal though in our ****ed up pampered world.



We can't get out of the ****ing jungle, our sick species.
 

JReeves

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
34
Get off your high horses already.


If you buy a Gibson you support an ownership who gets a fat bottom line from building guitars in factories where Gibson supervisors have seen innocent women being beaten to a bloody pulp on a factory floor for making a little mistake.

ahh, so the fake makers are Robin Hoods!

if you are against private ownership that is called socialism.
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
ahh, so the fake makers are Robin Hoods!

if you are against private ownership that is called socialism.



Private ownership doesn't have **** to do with my statement. You can make very good/ethical decisions and own things. As someone who has bought Gibson guitars a number of times...I consider it a decision lacking in ethics on my part, I'm imperfect.



But, that facebook political edumucation always gets in the way :laugh2:
 
Top