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My new 1958 les paull replica

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
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the original builders and designers of the 59 LP are all dead (probably) so it’s just a big corporation that has changed hands several times that has the right to build these replicas.



That's what it was in the 50's...owned by a big ass conglomerate manufacturer of mass produced instruments. Orville built like 10 instruments a year, carved from hand and the young guys who were there in the 50's witness the older workers wax poetic about the good ole 20's-30's! :hee Think about for just a minute...the company went from a one man operation to shipping out 35,000 units/instruments a year by 1959.

In the 50's/60's Gibson had pressure from the top to continue to increase market share, expand the company big time, increase quota's, etc etc, which they did.

No one ever carved a 'burst from hand in the 50's paying exacting detail to every inch of the guitar, that's stupid and the guitars themselves prove otherwise as does the history on record. Every detail of the old guitars is all over the place and if any logical assumption can be made (on the basis of "holy grail" status) it's that mass manufacture of guitars works pretty damn well.

Every replica builder & boutique company that pretends it doesn't do replicas (which is a joke) simply categorizes certain nuances that they feel makes a superior guitar. And, for every one of those silly rules they make....there are 50's Gibsons out there which break those rules which I'm sure sound just fine & dandy. After all, what they're trying to replicate is something a bunch of country boys with little to no experience built by using Henry Ford styled work specific stations....you know..an assembly line, not a Ferrari, not a Rolex, not a Van Gogh, Gibson was the biggest instrument company in the world operating out of a huge factory employing at least 500+ people on the union roster with many more temps.

There's this absolutely gross penchant for sycophantry underlying all the ridiculous historical revisionism & tone worship. Get a guitar you like and be your own man, make your own ****ing rules.
 

JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
The way I see it this guitar belongs in the category of an "unlicensed copy" of a Gibson Les Paul. It's not a fake or counterfeit as others have stated. It's an unlicensed copy.

Just like with other commodities (e.g., firearms, select aircraft, clothing, sporting goods, etc.) manufactuers often grant a license to a independent company to manufacture their product(s), or parts of their products, in an independent factory (most often in a foreign country) utilizing the identical designs and drawings as the original article. The company that makes the article pays a royalty or fee to the original manufacturer which allows the company to make the article.

The original manufacturer often stations a quality control inspector in the factory of the company reproducing the article. That way, the original manufacturer is able to insure the article meets or exceeds the appropriate design specifications.


I don’t think anyone questions the quality of some of these guitars. But unlicensed copy? Lol.
Semantic tricks or more specifically euphemisms have a pretty awful track record if you look back throuhout history. Yet certain fake news organizations use euphemisms regularly to obfuscate the truth. Maybe the next time I pass the Bel-Air country club I’ll tell them that I’m an undocumented member.
 

JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
That's what it was in the 50's...owned by a big ass conglomerate manufacturer of mass produced instruments. Orville built like 10 instruments a year, carved from hand and the young guys who were there in the 50's witness the older workers wax poetic about the good ole 20's-30's! :hee Think about for just a minute...the company went from a one man operation to shipping out 35,000 units/instruments a year by 1959.

In the 50's/60's Gibson had pressure from the top to continue to increase market share, expand the company big time, increase quota's, etc etc, which they did.

No one ever carved a 'burst from hand in the 50's paying exacting detail to every inch of the guitar, that's stupid and the guitars themselves prove otherwise as does the history on record. Every detail of the old guitars is all over the place and if any logical assumption can be made (on the basis of "holy grail" status) it's that mass manufacture of guitars works pretty damn well.

Every replica builder & boutique company that pretends it doesn't do replicas (which is a joke) simply categorizes certain nuances that they feel makes a superior guitar. And, for every one of those silly rules they make....there are 50's Gibsons out there which break those rules which I'm sure sound just fine & dandy. After all, what they're trying to replicate is something a bunch of country boys with little to no experience built by using Henry Ford styled work specific stations....you know..an assembly line, not a Ferrari, not a Rolex, not a Van Gogh, Gibson was the biggest instrument company in the world operating out of a huge factory employing at least 500+ people on the union roster with many more temps.

There's this absolutely gross penchant for sycophantry underlying all the ridiculous historical revisionism & tone worship. Get a guitar you like and be your own man, make your own ****ing rules.

Beautifuly said Deytook.
 

marshall1987

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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
I don’t think anyone questions the quality of some of these guitars. But unlicensed copy? Lol.
Semantic tricks or more specifically euphemisms have a pretty awful track record if you look back throuhout history. Yet certain fake news organizations use euphemisms regularly to obfuscate the truth. Maybe the next time I pass the Bel-Air country club I’ll tell them that I’m an undocumented member.

Ordinarily I wouldn't waste my time with rubbish like this, however..........

This .....from your vast experience and knowledge of civil tort law, and patent and trademark statutes? What patent or trademark filings and/or cases have you worked on recently? That's what I thought. None.

I have to conclude you really know nothing. And so typical too. :3zone
:dang
 

pinefd

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Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,060
...Maybe the next time I pass the Bel-Air country club I’ll tell them that I’m an undocumented member.

Good luck with that. Last I heard, they were building a 30 foot high border wall around the club to keep your type out. And I believe they were getting non-members to pay for the wall.

:hmm

:peace2
 

JPP-1

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Messages
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Good luck with that. Last I heard, they were building a 30 foot high border wall around the club to keep your type out. And I believe they were getting non-members to pay for the wall.

:hmm

:peace2

Lol, yes well to be quite honest I wouldn’t want to belong to a club that would have me as a member anyways, documented or otherwise.
 
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JPP-1

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1,336
Frankly I don’t care what you call yourself or what your wall plaque says any more than I care about propagandists masquerading as journalists because they have a little Id card that says they are. I happen to know what is is.

It is my understanding an unlicensed copy is a term typically used to describe copyrighted material such as software from that actual copyright holder that is being used but is not licensed. On the other hand, Rolex watches, Luis Vuitton bags, hermes scarves, Les Pauls. The quality has no bearing on infingent and all are consider counterfeits unless they are made by or for their respective owners who have the rights to manufacture sell distribute etc. But you're an attorney so you should know this right?

You want to argue a point and enlighten me, argue it. High handed condescension and double talk mentioning civil tort law and patent and trademark filings and calling me stupid is just a lot of hot air by someone who clearly lacks the ability to mount a cogent and convincing argument.

And since you asked, The last patent I worked on admittedly was awhile back when I was just out of college but I managed to get all our claims approved when our patent attorneys couldn’t. The science was pretty cool too as I recall, it was a novel method for high throughput drug screening utilizing fluorescent spectroscopy. When’s the last time you invented something? That’s what I thought, never.

i don't judge folks who want to buy one of these guitars. I even understand the appeal. However, i have no tolerance and do judge those that lack intellectual integrity and cover up the true nature of something inside a sweet sounding euphemism. Because that has been a primary hallmark of tyranny. So despite knowing nothing at least I know that. You want to leave your door unlocked and consider the strangers you find wandering in your home uninvited guests that's your business. You want to argue for your more humanistic approach to property ownership, argue it on it's merits, don't obscure the truth behind semantic tricks like some tyrant's propagandist and call me antisocial because i prefer to keep my door locked and consider strangers in my home intruders.



Ordinarily I wouldn't waste my time with rubbish like this, however..........

This .....from your vast experience and knowledge of civil tort law, and patent and trademark statutes? What patent or trademark filings and/or cases have you worked on recently? That's what I thought. None.

I have to conclude you really know nothing. And so typical too. :3zone
:dang
 
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brandtkronholm

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Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,737
Frankly I don’t care what you call yourself or what your wall plaque says any more than I care about propagandists masquerading as journalists because they have a little Id card that says they are. I happen to know what is is.

No, you do not know "what it is."


It is my utter lack of understanding an unlicensed copy is a term typically used to describe copyrighted material such as software from that actual copyright holder that is being used but is not licensed. On the other hand, Rolex watches, Luis Vuitton bags, hermes scarves, Les Pauls. The quality has no bearing on infingent and all are consider counterfeits unless they are made by or for their respective owners who have the rights to manufacture sell distribute etc. But you're an attorney so you should know this right?

I fixed it for you. You're welcome.

You want to argue a point and enlighten me, argue it. High handed condescension and double talk mentioning civil tort law and patent and trademark filings and calling me stupid is just a lot of hot air by someone who clearly lacks the ability to mount a cogent and convincing argument.

And since you asked, The last patent I worked on admittedly was awhile back when I was just out of college but I managed to get all our claims approved when our patent attorneys couldn’t. The science was pretty cool too as I recall, it was a novel method for high throughput drug screening utilizing fluorescent spectroscopy. When’s the last time you invented something? That’s what I thought, never.

...meh.

i don't judge folks who want to buy one of these guitars. I even understand the appeal.

Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.

However, i have no tolerance

...this feels true on so many levels...

and do judge those that lack intellectual integrity and cover up the true nature of something inside a sweet sounding euphemism.

The wall is a euphemism for racism.

Because that has been a primary hallmark of tyranny.

So true.

So despite knowing nothing

So true.

at least I know that.

No, you probably don't know "that."

You want to leave your door unlocked and consider the strangers you find wandering in your home uninvited guests that's your business. You want to argue for your more humanistic approach to property ownership, argue it on it's merits, don't obscure the truth behind semantic tricks like some tyrant's propagandist

What does Kelly Conway have to do with fake Les Pauls? She works with fake presidents.

and call me antisocial because i prefer to keep my door locked and consider strangers in my home intruders.

You really are Trump's mark in his con-game.

Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.

...I don’t see much of an analogy with Trump, love him or hate him, it would be hard to deny that you have one guy against the tyranny of propagandist elite media, hedge fund billionaires, Silicon Valley lottery winners, Hollywood celebrities, global corpratists, not to mention universities that serve as indoctrination camps where any dissent is shunned with religious fervor.

Clearly, you are making an overt connection to Trump.

Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.
 

Patek

Active member
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
415
Frankly I don’t care what you call yourself or what your wall plaque says any more than I care about propagandists masquerading as journalists because they have a little Id card that says they are. I happen to know what is is.

It is my understanding an unlicensed copy is a term typically used to describe copyrighted material such as software from that actual copyright holder that is being used but is not licensed. On the other hand, Rolex watches, Luis Vuitton bags, hermes scarves, Les Pauls. The quality has no bearing on infingent and all are consider counterfeits unless they are made by or for their respective owners who have the rights to manufacture sell distribute etc. But you're an attorney so you should know this right?

You want to argue a point and enlighten me, argue it. High handed condescension and double talk mentioning civil tort law and patent and trademark filings and calling me stupid is just a lot of hot air by someone who clearly lacks the ability to mount a cogent and convincing argument.

And since you asked, The last patent I worked on admittedly was awhile back when I was just out of college but I managed to get all our claims approved when our patent attorneys couldn’t. The science was pretty cool too as I recall, it was a novel method for high throughput drug screening utilizing fluorescent spectroscopy. When’s the last time you invented something? That’s what I thought, never.

i don't judge folks who want to buy one of these guitars. I even understand the appeal. However, i have no tolerance and do judge those that lack intellectual integrity and cover up the true nature of something inside a sweet sounding euphemism. Because that has been a primary hallmark of tyranny. So despite knowing nothing at least I know that. You want to leave your door unlocked and consider the strangers you find wandering in your home uninvited guests that's your business. You want to argue for your more humanistic approach to property ownership, argue it on it's merits, don't obscure the truth behind semantic tricks like some tyrant's propagandist and call me antisocial because i prefer to keep my door locked and consider strangers in my home intruders.



There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They can’t even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
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Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They can’t even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.

A "replica builder" could do all of that, without forging the Gibson logo, and the Les Paul Model logo.
Instead, they counterfeit it just to make extra money OR satisfy some buyer who has to have this look [which is why I call it posing].
Those aspects have no effect on the quality of the guitar. :rolleyes
 

deytookerjaabs

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Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They can’t even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.



I should be practicing :laugh2:, sorry!


But, for real here. The lacquer: I don't know, there is slight formula modifications but guess what: I have my own and have seen many modern Gibsons with noticeable wear and checking like vintage guitars. My '13 SJ100 top has a good bit of checking, very thin finish, great guitar. Heck, my AV'54 Fender Stratocaster is checking and starting to get finger board wear. Thing is, climate control isn't the best in my house and my instruments get left in a trunk during the winter many times. I saw a mid-00's ES335 that was well checked with some wear in a pawn shop a little while back, lots of low end Gibson I see like this too cause they get road hard & put up wet...like the old guitars did.

Expecting checking/wear in the climate controlled house/closet ain't gonna happen and in the 60's/70's and even today it's just not feasible in many situations to keep instruments in perfect climate control...in fact I hate that mentality as if the musician world runs on heated gear trailers, lol.

As for the processes, I disagree. Although certainly the aesthetic merit of older tooling is neat the modern presses Gibson Custom has are far more precise for seaming wood together versus the old cheap dowel clamps rigs they set up. The CNC's are now programmable to ridiculous tolerances to assure said seams come out perfect. Anyone who's subscribed to woodworking magazines that publish university forestry department studies regarding the bonds formed by certain modern glues on woods knows they hold a better molecular bond than doped up farmer's glue.. end of story there.

I'm not dissing what the builders do, per se, I really dig Yaron and similar minds taking it to the streets and going to the nth degree in their pursuit of trying to exact a certain, uh, "tonal specimen." Just like I think ThroBak is cool to keep using all those machines & reverse engineer alloys or just like I dig what Heritage guitars used to be.

A Les Paul was never ever designed to nor did it ever undergo hand tool carving or tap tones and similar process certain flat & arch tops had. It's just maniacal nonsense when everyone drools over a picture of a top carve "dish" saying junk like "they'll never do it right." Garbage talk, they laser scan those damn things to crazy resolutions then they're programmed into the cutter at Gibson then super fine sanded to assure no mess. Sure, not as cool on the aesthetic meter as the old stuff, but the old stuff was still filled with up to date electric powered machinery in the 50's, the only difference is the old ways were less precise.

But, basic engineering tells me that when I look at a modern press that evenly distributes pressure across the entire block of wood (and measures it while do so to assure perfection) that I'd be smoking the good stuff to believe it's inferior a set of dowel clamps no matter how much replica builders say, without being honest, that "sloppy methods and inferior products are crucial to the tone." It's either a back asswards world or I'm just nuts.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
Messages
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Here's a different analogy to sum up my views:



I really love electronic music gear, and certain composers etc. Years back I would scour used/pawn shops and get cool gear at great prices. Then I got into modular synth stuff & made a couple real cool vintage scores...bad ass old analogue systems/modules. I even got things for free that were being thrown away from university music departments.


Around the dawn of people ebay-ing frequently prices really started to creep on the old analogue ****. From the 80's Roland 303's/808's to the Buchla modules and Moogs and big box Arps bla bla bla. All of which I'd had or owned or had access to at some point, and loved. Being I wasn't in it to get rich I didn't mind selling off things at certain times to make the rent and eventually unloaded everything when a baby was born.


Funny thing happened when those prices went up...the old guard of analogue builder came back....and they killed and are still killing it! We're talking killer sounding boxes that every knob if fully programmable/sequenceable, programmable tunings, way more powerful than ever with endless possibilities and huge sound to boot!! Good gawd the sounds out of the new stuff...for next to nothing in price too!!


Yet, as the prices continue to get uber stupid, every time I look at some synth aficionados forum I can't believe the dumb **** I hear and read regarding the premium "vintage" gear. Mother****ers in turtlenecks paying 5 figures for old modular setups then uploading garbage samples of filter sweeps on one frequency spending hours in rhetorical flourish over how that old Modular has some tone no one else could ever comprehend :laugh2: :rolleyes Even the emails I got when I cashed in on some buchla stuff were just asinine! And, it just gets worse and WORSE!!! I mean, ANY difference in sound we're talking is a super tiny hair of noise or graininess or drift that's just normal in old gear...stuff that ain't got **** to do with composing or, at the least, won't make or break a piece/track. For some of the well off synth heads it's as if the end game of buying that old modular system revolved around one thing: BLOVIATING like a cow in heat.


Then, people who never touched an old Buchla read that **** and mope about how awesome it must be to own one and they'll never have that kind of sound bla bla bla or some even place orders on super expensive new Buchlas etc, good gawd the whole thing is just pathetic. Yes, an old Buchla system is cool, they can fill your living room, and today IF YOU HAVE A SHRED OF CREATIVITY you can get far more possibilities with a few hundred bucks in analogue gear than you had with the Buchla decades ago!!





So, whatever, if you think your guitar hero(s) career would have been moot if they had titebond or CNC in 1959 all I can say is you are your own worst enemy. Those guys were usually trying to push the envelope...not dabble in conservatory like study of their predecessors with rigid execution of emulating their own heroes like a lot of the popular guys whose opinions are ****ing written in stone in the minds of some today. We're supposed to progress...not regress.


Guitars have attitudes, brighter, tighter, looser, soft, aggressive, thin, thick, rough, smooth, they don't ****ing "Blow The Doors Off Everything Else" just because yours might sound a hair more preferable for you. :salude
 

J.D.

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Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
10,030
Excellent rant, not sure I completely understand it though.

Still doesn't change the fact that anyone besides the owner of the Gibson brand making a Les Paul guitar with Gibson on the headstock is infringing on their IP.

I'm not a patent attorney but that doesn't make it less fact.
 

JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
Patek, I see the point you’re trying to make with your analogy but I think you are being overly generous not to mention somewhat hyperbolic in your adulation of these replica builders. It isn’t a secret society. If Historics sucked so bad they were commensurate to a reprint we’d all be playing replicas.

To use your analogy, I see it more like two high quality paintings only one uses blue made with 100 year old lapis vs blue made from 50 year old lapis with the 50 year old lapis mined somewhere else, deemed but not proven, less desirable. Now some people swear, even in the context of a very intricate painting they can tell you how old the lapis is and where it was mined from. Thing is, I’ve never seen it proven in any sort of objective, quantifiable fashion. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Just I’ve never seen it or more accurately in this case heard it. And I have been around the block,

Precise routing and cavity dimensions and not having R9 stamped in the cavity doesn’t make for better tone but could make for a better fake. The greatest art fraud ever perpetrated utilize art created by a middling semi pro artist from queens, not some scholarly gifted art student creating a tribute to the master works.

Afaic, it either is an original burst or its not. I mean, who verifies and documents the genus of woods used, the age of woods with these replicas. The guy who has no problem taking someone else’s design? But by all means, buy what you like, what inspires you, be it original, relic, replica whatever. I am not here to judge. But calling a historic a textureless reprint while bestowing adulation and romanticizing some guy who copies someone else’s design and has the balls to put his name on it an homage? Lol, To quote a great line from a movie “Don’t go believing that jack, That way lies damnation”





There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They can’t even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.
 

ourmaninthenorth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,119
I laugh to scorn the idea that Gibson can't make their own guitars in their own image.

The fakes - I've done my groundwork, and played a fair few. Good guitars all, one in particular, sensational. Whilst they have Gibson on the headstock I wouldn't take one for free, literally you couldn't gift me one of these moody guitars.

Is this the longest thread was the cry? Not by a long chalk, but most of the epic threads on this Forum have had at their epicentre the consequential fallout from the skullduggery arising from fake acrobatics.

I've also found that the Replica versus Historic argument to be not as clear cut as the fake lovers would suggest.

I was recently involved in an evidence based comparative test...one of many I've been lucky to do, out of 4 guitars, my old 2001 Murphy (and the cheapeast guitar in the room by a distance) literally left the rest for dead, a Yaron, a HM Makeover, and an outright UK made fake. The same Murphy has been up against 2 well known 'Bursts in separate tests, it was second best on both occasions, but not by the country miles some would have you believe.

One thing to bear in mind - I'm the player behind these opinions, my playing has it's technical limitations but it in itself forms my opinion on what I consider great, by nature my opinion is descriptive.

Further, my compass by nature is mine to steer to, any direction or position is descriptive. When expressing a view I'm simply describing, I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. Nobody needs my approval, nor do I seek the same.


Where I find myself in conflict with many is trying to ally that descriptive opinion with the prescriptive opinion that seems to be currency in any discussion of fakes. ie It's not a Gibson made guitar, but it's how Gibson should be making them...OR...Gibson can't make them like this, thereby in some perverse sense justifying outright fakery. I find it absolute nonsense.

Why does it matter?

A place where anything goes is a place where eventually no-one goes.

There is a marked paucity of contribution to this Forum, the question is, does this overall subject matter - fakes- have a direct bearing on that position. The LPF is missing a trick in my humble opinion, that being a fake free zone. It'd certainly give us a USP.

This stuff used to be fun, it just isn't anymore.

Back to the wood and wire methinks, that stuff just doesn't lie.
 
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JPP-1

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Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
I have no connnection to Trump or fake Les Pauls. Why make this political.

The wall is a euphemism for having sovereign borders.
You must be deep in that coolaid, living in your well manicured safe space, eating gluten free muffins with the other snowflakes, suddenly defending the borders of a nation has become racist? Lmfao.

But that’s how it is with you illiberal, intolerant fanatics. The elders in Salem used to call those that disagreed with them witch and heretic. You use terms like racist and xenophobe to silence shame and destroy any one who doesn’t submit to your world view.

Intellectual Diversity and open discourse are an anathema to you, trendy race shaming, pc censorship and cultural euphemisms are all you have when logic, reason and history prove that everything you propagate is fallacious not to mention dangerous. Tying privilege to someone’s identity is a great tactic when your goal is absolute power regardless of how many millions suffer and die. It’s been done before to horrific effect. Turn off CNN and pickup a history book.

I never made a judgement on Trump any more than I made a judgement on those who buy counterfeit replica guitars. I made a judgement on euphemisms and propagandists that use them for the legitimate reasons I stated.

You think euphemisms are good than argue that point. If you think open borders and millions of needy unskilled people are going to help working poor documented American families living in depressed urban and rural areas who will end up sharing government services with these “undocumented citizens”. Argue it. Just not here.

If you think unlicensed copy is not the appropriate term to describe legitimate software used without a valid license but Better suited to describe counterfeit Rolex watches and Les Pauls Argue it. Don’t change my words like a petty intellectually weakling. That’s the thing with trigger warnings, safe spaces, where SJW thought police are totally ascendent, after awhile your mind turns to mush, you can only repeatedly shout racist and stamp your feet when faced with a diversity of opinions.

Changing my words and insinuating those who support border security are racist reveals your own ignorance and intolerance not to mention lack of intellectual vigor. Life must be bliss for you inside your nondiverse bubble.



No, you do not know "what it is."




I fixed it for you. You're welcome.



...meh.



Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



...this feels true on so many levels...



The wall is a euphemism for racism.



So true.



So true.



No, you probably don't know "that."



What does Kelly Conway have to do with fake Les Pauls? She works with fake presidents.



You really are Trump's mark in his con-game.

Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



Clearly, you are making an overt connection to Trump.

Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.
 
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Shocktop99

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
92
We should try to do it!

Maybe we should all try to meet up and do songbirds or have a meet at one of the big guitars shows

I did try to get some traction for a golf thing here in Pinehurst... Golf and Guitar hang kind of thing-- that did not get much tho!

would love to meet some of you guys in person

while we quibble about some of this stuff and it gets heated in the grand scheme of things we have a lot more in common amongst ourselves here than we do with the rest of the world out there!

I second this, i'd love to hang with some of you guys! sounds like fun!!
 

Wallace

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
877
I laugh to scorn the idea that Gibson can't make their own guitars in their own image.

The fakes - I've done my groundwork, and played a fair few. Good guitars all, one in particular, sensational. Whilst they have Gibson on the headstock I wouldn't take one for free, literally you couldn't gift me one of these moody guitars.

Is this the longest thread was the cry? Not by a long chalk, but most of the epic threads on this Forum have had at their epicentre the consequential fallout from the skullduggery arising from fake acrobatics.

I've also found that the Replica versus Historic argument to be not as clear cut as the fake lovers would suggest.

I was recently involved in an evidence based comparative test...one of many I've been lucky to do, out of 4 guitars, my old 2001 Murphy (and the cheapeast guitar in the room by a distance) literally left the rest for dead, a Yaron, a HM Makeover, and an outright UK made fake. The same Murphy has been up against 2 well known 'Bursts in separate tests, it was second best on both occasions, but not by the country miles some would have you believe.

One thing to bear in mind - I'm the player behind these opinions, my playing has it's technical limitations but it in itself forms my opinion on what I consider great, by nature my opinion is descriptive.

Further, my compass by nature is mine to steer to, any direction or position is descriptive. When expressing a view I'm simply describing, I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. Nobody needs my approval, nor do I seek the same.


Where I find myself in conflict with many is trying to ally that descriptive opinion with the prescriptive opinion that seems to be currency in any discussion of fakes. ie It's not a Gibson made guitar, but it's how Gibson should be making them...OR...Gibson can't make them like this, thereby in some perverse sense justifying outright fakery. I find it absolute nonsense.

Why does it matter?

A place where anything goes is a place where eventually no-one goes.

There is a marked paucity of contribution to this Forum, the question is, does this overall subject matter - fakes- have a direct bearing on that position. The LPF is missing a trick in my humble opinion, that being a fake free zone. It'd certainly give us a USP.

This stuff used to be fun, it just isn't anymore.

Back to the wood and wire methinks, that stuff just doesn't lie.

well said.
:salude

Where's the like button?
 

brandtkronholm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,737
I have no connnection to Trump or fake Les Pauls. Why make this political.

The wall is a euphemism for having sovereign borders.
You must be deep in that coolaid, living in your well manicured safe space, eating gluten free muffins with the other snowflakes, suddenly defending the borders of a nation has become racist? Lmfao.

But that’s how it is with you illiberal, intolerant fanatics. The elders in Salem used to call those that disagreed with them witch and heretic. You use terms like racist and xenophobe to silence shame and destroy any one who doesn’t submit to your world view.

Intellectual Diversity and open discourse are an anathema to you, trendy race shaming, pc censorship and cultural euphemisms are all you have when logic, reason and history prove that everything you propagate is fallacious not to mention dangerous. Tying privilege to someone’s identity is a great tactic when your goal is absolute power regardless of how many millions suffer and die. It’s been done before to horrific effect. Turn off CNN and pickup a history book.

I never made a judgement on Trump any more than I made a judgement on those who buy counterfeit replica guitars. I made a judgement on euphemisms and propagandists that use them for the legitimate reasons I stated.

You think euphemisms are good than argue that point. If you think open borders and millions of needy unskilled people are going to help working poor documented American families living in depressed urban and rural areas who will end up sharing government services with these “undocumented citizens”. Argue it. Just not here.

If you think unlicensed copy is not the appropriate term to describe legitimate software used without a valid license but Better suited to describe counterfeit Rolex watches and Les Pauls Argue it. Don’t change my words like a petty intellectually weakling. That’s the thing with trigger warnings, safe spaces, where SJW thought police are totally ascendent, after awhile your mind turns to mush, you can only repeatedly shout racist and stamp your feet when faced with a diversity of opinions.

Changing my words and insinuating those who support border security are racist reveals your own ignorance and intolerance not to mention lack of intellectual vigor. Life must be bliss for you inside your nondiverse bubble.

TLDR
You’re an easy mark!
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
No, you do not know "what it is."




I fixed it for you. You're welcome.



...meh.



Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



...this feels true on so many levels...



The wall is a euphemism for racism.



So true.



So true.



No, you probably don't know "that."



What does Kelly Conway have to do with fake Les Pauls? She works with fake presidents.



You really are Trump's mark in his con-game.

Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



Clearly, you are making an overt connection to Trump.

Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.

What's with all the political BS? :wah
 
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