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My new 1958 les paull replica

ourmaninthenorth

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Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,119
Oh, I thought they were pretty much unmentionables elsewhere? I know TGP doesn't do replicas. I'm pretty sure I first heard about Bartletts and some of the other ones on this site! The most I know about them is from the Yaron build threads on the tele site.



Yet, partscasters with Fender logos are flippin' everywhere you look. Replica stuff all seems very hush hush to me?

You have me at a disadvantage, I don't use TGP, but bravo to them on this issue.

I believe The Other Place has no such issues...again the wind might have changed there - I've been banned for a while...so other than a little internecine cross cut and pasting in that GuitarPoint 'Burst thing a couple of years ago, I rarely feel the need to read the site, which is a little churlish on my part to be candid, there are some good Lads over there too.

A UK site I read appears to have some detractors, but in the main, fakes are openly discussed and sold (albeit with the comical proviso of sans headstock pics)

For something so self celebratory in their underground status and bespoke rarity, they are every bloody where.

I had a UK made fake in my hands weeks ago... as an aside it wouldn't have fooled The Wife...

Fake stuff, not just guitars, does indeed like to talk out of the side of it's mouth, all windswept and mysterious like. I'm not clever enough for it, I like to keep things nice and simple.

Something either is, or it ain't.

Can someone give me a nudge when these fake becomes real ?

I have a feeling it may very well be in my lifetime.
 

JPP-1

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Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
LOL, so you have no evidence to support what you claim. Hence for you the conversation is over. But not before some parting name calling: attempting to cast dispersion on my ability to discern tone because I challenge your unprovable assertions -then you run to your safe space.

I find it amusing to think that of the 1000s of different cuts of wood having varying weights and densities, from different trees of different ages, scattered across a diverse geographical region, that all of these cuts of wood have some recognizable magical tonal property, that the aurally gifted such as yourself can discern. frankly, I find that assumption preposterous, but you can believe whatever you'd like, you just can't prove it.

To your other points , my ears are just fine and i take tone very seriously, to my own amusement sometimes. I also own and have owned vintage guitars albeit not a Burst.

Here are some facts. Gibson made bursts from 1958-1960. if it wasn't built during that time its not a Burst, regardless of how old the woods might be or what magical properties you'd like to imagine the woods in your guitar have.

While my Gibson R9s were not built in 1959, tonally, they embody everything I've looked for in a great Les Paul. And, whether it matters or not, like the glorious Bursts before them, they are genuine Gibson Les Pauls.

Afaic this is as good as any Les Paul tone I've heard.



If you make a statement like you just did : That there is "no evidence that old wood sounds better than new wood" This conversation is over between you and I. It leads me to believe that you obviously do not own any vintage guitars and if you do, you just haven't the ear to hear the difference.
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
I certainly will. If you expect me to watch an hour and a half movie to see if you made your point, I'm saying your story is BULLSHIT. :rolleyes

Besides, you posted the Heritage factory, not the Gibson factory. Another fail on your part.
Got anything better to back up this claim? :ganz


On youtube you can link what part of a video you want to play, I did that, it last less that 5 minutes before Ren describes EXACTLY what I posted about. As supervisor of Epi operations he and his colleague(s) watched women being beaten in the overseas factory, he says it right in the video and describes the situation there. Thing is, believe it or not, this pissed people like Ren off!


Don't be daft. If you want to call "BULLSHIT" and I post a first person account of a well known and loved Gibson employee you have no excuse for ignoring it. I wouldn't say something like that without having some corroboration.

That's Ren Wall, he worked for Gibson for decades starting in the late 50's up through the 80's and he was director of Artist relations for a long time courting everyone from BB King to Roy Clark to Wes Montgomery.

His father, Rem Wall worked for Gibson even longer and is mentioned extensively in important Gibson historic texts like "Ted McCarty's Golden Era" and "Gibson Electrics: The Classic Years." If you don't want to use google...I'm sure you can check the appendix of those books.

Yes, many who used to be in the Heritage guitar family came from decades when not generations of Kalamazoo employees and are a great source of factual information on the Gibson company whose history we love to learn about...or do we? You don't even want to watch 5 minutes of an ACTUAL Gibson employee who spent a lot of his time on the Heritage tour talking about...Gibson. That video is a great watch for any Gibson enthusiast IMO.



Now, if you don't have the humility to own it and realize I 100% backed up what I stated...that's your problem :ganz
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
You have me at a disadvantage, I don't use TGP, but bravo to them on this issue.

I believe The Other Place has no such issues...again the wind might have changed there - I've been banned for a while...so other than a little internecine cross cut and pasting in that GuitarPoint 'Burst thing a couple of years ago, I rarely feel the need to read the site, which is a little churlish on my part to be candid, there are some good Lads over there too.

A UK site I read appears to have some detractors, but in the main, fakes are openly discussed and sold (albeit with the comical proviso of sans headstock pics)

For something so self celebratory in their underground status and bespoke rarity, they are every bloody where.

I had a UK made fake in my hands weeks ago... as an aside it wouldn't have fooled The Wife...

Fake stuff, not just guitars, does indeed like to talk out of the side of it's mouth, all windswept and mysterious like. I'm not clever enough for it, I like to keep things nice and simple.

Something either is, or it ain't.

Can someone give me a nudge when these fake becomes real ?

I have a feeling it may very well be in my lifetime.




****, if you got banned that doesn't bode well for any site :laugh2: I think I know the site you speak of and recall reading some serious chest thumping from mods out in the open from the get go, sets a bad premise, bad vibes.


Personally, I like banter, and don't mind things getting heated a little on the 'net. We're more polite in person no doubt, but we're not all robots either, yet.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
c v
Oh, I thought they were pretty much unmentionables elsewhere? I know TGP doesn't do replicas. I'm pretty sure I first heard about Bartletts and some of the other ones on this site! The most I know about them is from the Yaron build threads on the tele site.



Yet, partscasters with Fender logos are flippin' everywhere you look. Replica stuff all seems very hush hush to me?


If I'm not mistaken, companies such as Warmoth and a few others actually have obtained licenses from Fender to reproduce Fender parts, such as necks and bodies.

Warmoth and the other licensed manufacturers are not violating any trademark or patent laws in doing so, unlike some of the Les Paul copies that are made in various independent wood shops. In the latter instances, the guitar builders have not obtained licenses from Gibson to make copies of Les Pauls. BIG difference from a trademark or patent standpoint.
 
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Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
As supervisor of Epi operations he and his colleague(s) watched women being beaten in the overseas factory, ...


Now, if you don't have the humility to own it and realize I 100% backed up what I stated...that's your problem :ganz

Why didn't you say this in the first place? :hmm


You implied it was in the Gibson factory, not some overseas factory belonging to someone else. That's why I mentioned you being in Nashville, because I took your words to mean that it happened in Gibson's factory [which is in Nashville].

:salude
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Tom, what's the question? I think we are getting off on the wrong page, I'm not ranting.

Go back to post #295 and read forward from there.
The question comes up.
Hint: Has to do why I use the word "posers" for certain people [and not aimed at all the people you said it was]. :ganz
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
Why didn't you say this in the first place? :hmm


You implied it was in the Gibson factory, not some overseas factory belonging to someone else. That's why I mentioned you being in Nashville, because I took your words to mean that it happened in Gibson's factory [which is in Nashville].

:salude



Awe hell no it wasn't here in the US of A. I'm serious about that video of the Heritage tour though, and ole Gibson wise man showing folks around Parson's street is good stuff, good, GREAT people. You watch Ren, they don't make many people like him, he talks about doing free gigs for paraplegics because he can tell they love the music while he plays...that's another level.


I mean, personally, we all have our barometer. I know Gibson owns _____ ______ ______ companies who all do the same thing to "stay competitive" by having factories wherever. But from some older employees they didn't like those decisions made way back when, y'know? So, I'm admitting that at times I feel a bit dirty either way when I hear stuff like that cause I know it boosts Gibson's bottom line. Yet, I buy Gibson guitars regardless and all sorts of overseas stuff (though not many foreign guitars, one or two). Heck, Gibson changed the industry big time in terms of moving to mass retail with a fat buy in long ago, love it or loathe it. Change keeps going on with every generation.


That's the point I'm making about the ethics thing with replicas...it's illegal, it's not proper, people come to their own terms with it even though you & many here feel strongly the other way. Every time I look at my own decisions I think "I could do better.." but I'm not so great so I really can't say much towards folks who buy fake guitars or fake logos etc even though the discussion gets lost in semantics.

I just think, if folks are sharing a replica that means they made their own justification and by sharing they have no ill will or personal intent to deceive.



I'm also good and drunk, so grain of salt ye all :salude
 

Patek

Active member
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
415
I don't see a problem with buying something from the rightful brand owner and modding it however you want.



caveat emptor, like always. you could call a modded Gibson a replica, but these so-called 'replicas' made by other builders are fakes. I wouldn't want to own or play stolen property, it's disheartening that others are proud of their ethical lapses.

I do not own one either. But I do appreciate the artistry. But also appreciate the artistry of HM and BM as well.

Regarding the comment above yours, about no evidence of a HM getting sold as a real burst. Well that’s neither here nor there if there has or hasn’t, it still equally could. If you do not think it could when kitted out with the real deal electronics and plastics, then you are essentially giving testament to the quality of some of the replica builders ability to really get the finish and shape absolutely spot on. Or could have been a fluke. I believe if HM are that good they could do as of a convincing job. In pics they are beautiful and I’d love a HM or BM
 

NYCBURST

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
288
Go back to post #295 and read forward from there.
The question comes up.
Hint: Has to do why I use the word "posers" for certain people [and not aimed at all the people you said it was]. :ganz

There is no other reason to have Gibson on the headstock. I'm a big poser, I guess. I really don't have an answer for you. If I'm going to have a reproduction of a 59 les paul, I reckon it's going to have the Gibson logo. Just like my actual Gibson guitars that I bought with my own money. I feel like I'm in high school again.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Awe hell no it wasn't here in the US of A. I'm serious about that video of the Heritage tour though, and ole Gibson wise man showing folks around Parson's street is good stuff, good, GREAT people. You watch Ren, they don't make many people like him, he talks about doing free gigs for paraplegics because he can tell they love the music while he plays...that's another level.


I mean, personally, we all have our barometer. I know Gibson owns _____ ______ ______ companies who all do the same thing to "stay competitive" by having factories wherever. But from some older employees they didn't like those decisions made way back when, y'know? So, I'm admitting that at times I feel a bit dirty either way when I hear stuff like that cause I know it boosts Gibson's bottom line. Yet, I buy Gibson guitars regardless and all sorts of overseas stuff (though not many foreign guitars, one or two). Heck, Gibson changed the industry big time in terms of moving to mass retail with a fat buy in long ago, love it or loathe it. Change keeps going on with every generation.


That's the point I'm making about the ethics thing with replicas...it's illegal, it's not proper, people come to their own terms with it even though you & many here feel strongly the other way. Every time I look at my own decisions I think "I could do better.." but I'm not so great so I really can't say much towards folks who buy fake guitars or fake logos etc even though the discussion gets lost in semantics.

I just think, if folks are sharing a replica that means they made their own justification and by sharing they have no ill will or personal intent to deceive.



I'm also good and drunk, so grain of salt ye all :salude

The intent to deceive is implicit, first and formost, and is why they are made, sold and bought.
 

brandtkronholm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,737
Where does this fit into the discussion?

https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?210245-High-pass-filter-Varitone-for-ES355&p=2818220#post2818220

The resolution of the pictures is not crystal clear, but it certainly looks like the headstock logo is "Gibson."
Let's assume that it doesn't say "Gibson."

However, for the sake of the thread, suppose it does. Clearly, the guitar itself won't fool anyone into believing that it's a genuine Gibson. So what is the nature of the (hypothetical) deception in this case? (Again, supposing it says "Gibson.")


As for the guitar itself, I find it to be an interesting and fun choice to build at home. It's not one of the usual suspects: LP Strat, Tele or D28\45!
 

Ed A

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Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
4,679
The intent to deceive is implicit, first and formost, and is why they are made, sold and bought.

Sorry Al, but I cant let this one go... I find this statement to be so absurdly false, I have to respond...

First off if you want to say that replica builders who use the Gibson logo know that its not legal, you are absolutely correct... and that its unethical that they build them, well thats an opinion that you or anyone else is entitled to... or that its unethical for me to buy and play one or that I am a poser for doing so, again thats an opinion that you or anyone else is entitled to... or that some criminal down the line may try to pass it off as a real '59 (which can be done with a reworked historic as well), sure thats a possibility....

But to say that the intent to deceive is implicit and that is why they are are made, sold and bought is SO far off the mark... The only thing you can possibly mean by that statement is that the intent is to pass them off as a licensed real Gibson... Well I can tell you there is no way that Bartlett, Yaron (who used to put Gibson on the headstock), and as far as I know Max and Derrig, ever built these with the intention of passing them off as real Gibsons!... they were always built with the intention of trying to replicate late '50s guitars better than Gibson was able to do... The builders know it and their buyers know it... if someone purchases one of these with the intent of passing it off as a real '59 or a historic (which makes no sense because they are worth more than historics), then THAT person is guilty of deception, NOT the builder... and I am talking about the reputable well known replica builders and their buyers, we know exactly what they are and when Im asked about my guitar its the first thing I look forward to telling them about... that blanket statement you made can only apply to the smallest percentage of those who are interested in committing a crime by passing the guitar off as something it is not, for example a real 59 burst, whether they use Gibson branded guitars or replicas to do so.
 
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corpse

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Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
4,876
My $.02

I built little military vehicle models for years- I won medals. The entire thought process was to duplicate the real thing. I think that's what these guys are trying to do- just in 1:1 scale.
That said, there are definitely crooks, but that's not most if not all of this- like the Keeblers and the Yarons. They are trying to duplicate something divine.
 

J.D.

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Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
10,030
I respectfully disagree with Ed A and am in agreement with Big Al on this.
 
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