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  1. #241
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    +1 Ren. Truth might hurt but you are spot on.

  2. #242

    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    Harsh words with a definition that fits though. You gotta give me that.

    I AM open to other words if you wish to make me politically correct.

    And what do you know of their intent? You read minds? Their intent was to make a no holds barred replica. And they did a very good job. They are making money off of it.

    That by definition is wrong...

    And I will STILL buy you a beer! We can ease your suffering and injuries with a pint or four!
    Yeah, I'll give you that.... I'm up for lifting a couple of pints..
    Last edited by NYCBURST; 01-05-19 at 02:26 PM.

  3. #243
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBURST View Post
    Yeah, I'll give that.... I'm up for lifting a couple of pints..
    We should try to do it!

    Maybe we should all try to meet up and do songbirds or have a meet at one of the big guitars shows

    I did try to get some traction for a golf thing here in Pinehurst... Golf and Guitar hang kind of thing-- that did not get much tho!

    would love to meet some of you guys in person

    while we quibble about some of this stuff and it gets heated in the grand scheme of things we have a lot more in common amongst ourselves here than we do with the rest of the world out there!

  4. #244
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Ni Hao Lim
    I think it's poetic that a Chibson was exported to China!

    Made in Canada qualifies as a Chibson yes?

    I imagine it's a great guitar so enjoy no matter what anyone says!

  5. #245

    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by Pellman73 View Post
    We should try to do it!

    Maybe we should all try to meet up and do songbirds or have a meet at one of the big guitars shows

    I did try to get some traction for a golf thing here in Pinehurst... Golf and Guitar hang kind of thing-- that did not get much tho!

    would love to meet some of you guys in person

    while we quibble about some of this stuff and it gets heated in the grand scheme of things we have a lot more in common amongst ourselves here than we do with the rest of the world out there!

    I'm in Philadelphia.

  6. #246
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    I'm not sure why you specifically singled me out in your thread as I never said anyone owning a replica was a poser, a thief or otherwise.

    As the owner of a few nice watches I can say replicas of those watches are vociferously despised on the watch forums with much more vigor than anything I've seen here. As you said about Gibson, I don't feel I owe Rolex or Panerai any special allegiance. I also have no ill will towards someone seeking out a replica because they find the affordably of those watches daunting. What I find objectionable is when the degree of detail is so great that these replicas can be used to defraud an unsuspecting buyer not to mention making the used market place incredibly treacherous.

    You have repeatedly stated of the historics you've owned that you prefer the Yaron. I will be the first one to say that a small builder: Bartlett, Yaron, Gustuvsson can put more care into choosing tone woods, pickups, set up, so the probability of what I like to call a happy accident favors the small builder vs the larger manufacturer. However every guitar is different, no two Yaron's, Historics or 1959 Les Pauls sound the same, so the only way we could resolve whether Historic A is better, different or worse than Yaron B is via a hands on test of each guitar and that test will only tell you about those specific guitars.

    I too can also buy a replica or boutique guitar if I so choose. However, my experience is different than yours, after having the distinct good fortune of experiencing a wide assortment of high end boutique, custom shop and vintage guitars over the years, I have developed an internal baseline of what I want out of a Les Paul, Strat, etc. I can tell pretty quickly if a guitar meets that threshold. Beyond that threshold to me it's more about differences and preferences and not so much better or worse.

    The one thing you do seem to conflate in your post is that nobody is questioning your right to seek out a guitar that meets your tonal and/or specification preferences. However, you chose one that infringes on Gibson's intellectual property and some people here on the LPF find that objectionable. For me it's not my place to judge. I am neither a Burst owner or actively buying and selling. My only objection is the utility of such instruments to be used to defraud. I think there should be a way to limit this without otherwise affecting the appeal of these guitars.

    That's basically it. If you find yourself in the NYC metro area and feel strong, lol, we can put our guitars in the ring with my selection of vintage and boutique amps and see who is Rocky and who is Apollo. Enjoy your guitars Pellman73.






    Quote Originally Posted by Pellman73 View Post
    I would like to chime in here but I've been reluctant to, as I feel, unlike what JPP-1 said -- that there HAVE been long knives here (or perhaps short jabby ones) and no I don't get the sense that the people who are against replicas will even give in to one merit

    I felt this thread devolved into a Trump Twitter account, if we can bring in Trump. It was just a lot of name calling and throwing around disparaging words about replicas, replica owners, and replica makers. Fakers, frauds, fools, thieves. It is really not that interesting and its just sandbox infantile stuff.

    What is MORE interesting, and what I would HOPE for was what Ed A was alluding to. Some of the philosophical deeper discussion about why they exist, why we (and as a Gil yaron acolyte I'll put myself in the WE category) own and play these guitars.

    If we can put aside any of the morality or legality (and that means thinking and discussing this rationally-- which as Ed A was saying is NOT POSSIBLE for some people because their opinions are so strong-- like on Trump) then perhaps we could have what a real Forum should be all about-- people expressing their take on a subject, thoughtfully and respectfully exchanged

    I want to give MY story here, because it also addresses JPP-1's point about some of the better Gibson offerings.

    I'm going to compare these guitars to eras of movies. AGAIN THIS IS ONE MAN'S EXPERIENCE

    2003 I buy my first real Gibson les paul with moonlighting earnings from working in an emergency room while training to be a general surgeon knowing it will be years before I have the money to buy one again. It was an extremely extravagant purchase at the time but it was so great. I drove down to Sam Ash in richmond, picked a Honeyburst with the 50's neck (that year you could get 50's or 60's neck) off the wall and cherished it for the next 12 years. It weighed a shade under 10 lbs!

    That guitar I'd call a Talkie. A black and white movie that just had gotten words you could hear

    2016 I got two Gibson Les Pauls

    I got a 2003 Duane Allman Hotlanta (which was a grail guitar for me... at the time (who knew Grails can change )
    and a CC 15 Greg Martin (which had all sorts of mojo as it had been owned by Derek St Holmes and Slash had actually played it live at one of the Whitford/St Holmes gig.)

    Both of those guitars were amazing! But were still kind of missing something. I even put Wizz Hotlanta pickups IN hotlanta and I had regular Wizzers in the CC15.... even though these guitars were light years ahead of the 2003 honey burst they still were not all that inspiring and never really sounded like les pauls sounded to me in all the classic sounds (Beano, early ZZ top, Joe Walsh)

    these guitars were like color movies with music. Way more to them in all aspects than the honey burst but I was still left searching

    I worked my way up to a Green Lemon with Braz Board from the run late 2017. A grail guitar I THOUGHT.

    it was an incredible guitar. maybe we can call that one a 3-d movie.... was close. felt great, looked great, and sounded great and sounded pretty much what I thought what les pauls sounded like

    but I was still searching

    speaking of searching why do you think people switch out Throbaks and Wizzers and Ox4s and all these aftermarket pickups into their Gibson Les Pauls? I think its because they are experiencing what IVE experienced-- the experience of playing the les paul just IS NOT QUITE WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR- OR TRYING TO HEAR.

    so after reading about the Gil Yaron replicas and reading his TDPRI (or part of it... its LONG) build thread I jumped at the chance to get my first Gil a year ago and actually TRADED the hotlanta for it.

    Well from pulling that guitar out of its case, fondling it, plugging it in and stringing my first chord, then playing my first notes in all the three different pup positions its been over for me

    That guitar is like going to a 3-D IMAX movie. Everything comes to life, and you are so fucking delighted by playing it you giggle. You want to run around and tell everyone. you want to run to the top of a hill like Julie Andrews and spin around and Sing 'THE HILLS ARE ALIVE!"

    FINALLY you say-- THIS is what all the hype is about!

    The guitar is so good that when another came up I sold gob loads of stuff to get my SECOND ONE.

    I don't own any Gibson les pauls anymore

    If I was a multimillionaire you bet your ass the FIRST thing I"d do is get a real burst. But that aint happening. So for me, I wanted the closest thing to the real thing and from MY EXPERIENCE that has been playing replicas, not what Gibson has had to offer

    So that's been my experience. is there A POSSIBLE PLACEBO EFFECT? I don't know... I doubt it.

    now that means I've played and owned three Gibson Custom shops (the Hotlanta, the CC15, and the Green Lemon w Braz board). I've played a smattering of others in music stores. There may be some that are just as good that I've never played. mine may have been duds. A pro player I know played them and thought they were great. guitars-- they ARE great guitars (actually I've tried to buy the Greg Martin back. that one I regret getting rid of) I don't know-- but I'm just saying from my experience the search was over once I played a not-gibson les paul.

    and to me the most important thing, in this very short life we live, is to get as much joy out of it and as much joy out of our guitars.

    I feel I"ve contributed to Gibson's bottom line. What have they ever done for me? My gils do not have a Gibson headstock so they can't be mistaken as real. And to be honest I like that they are just a little different up there. I'm not sure I'd want one that says Gibson-- and maybe thats just from being here and my opinion my have been swayed a little on that subject. Otherwise knowing about slash and his derrig I would have thought "who cares. its kind of cool. maybe a little illicit --- and isn't Rock n Roll about saying FU to the man?"

    I would say that until you've played one of these guitars you should reserve judgement. At least have an informed opinion.

    does it Spark Joy ? or not.....

    discussions about legality, morality, all those other things should be a separate subject (if we can do that). but getting down to the nitty gritty of why we own them is very simple. they kick ass and get us closer to playing a real burst (in our opinions) than anything Gibson has to offer us since 1960

  7. #247
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    I'm not sure why you specifically singled me out in your thread as I never said anyone owning a replica was a poser, a thief or otherwise.

    As the owner of a few nice watches I can say replicas of those watches are vociferously despised on the watch forums with much more vigor than anything I've seen here. As you said about Gibson, I don't feel I owe Rolex or Panerai any special allegiance. I also have no ill will towards someone seeking out a replica because they find the affordably of those watches daunting. What I find objectionable is when the degree of detail is so great that these replicas can be used to defraud an unsuspecting buyer not to mention making the used market place incredibly treacherous.

    You have repeatedly stated of the historics you've owned that you prefer the Yaron. I will be the first one to say that a small builder: Bartlett, Yaron, Gustuvsson can put more care into choosing tone woods, pickups, set up, so the probability of what I like to call a happy accident favors the small builder vs the larger manufacturer. However every guitar is different, no two Yaron's, Historics or 1959 Les Pauls sound the same, so the only way we could resolve whether Historic A is better, different or worse than Yaron B is via a hands on test of each guitar and that test will only tell you about those specific guitars.

    I too can also buy a replica or boutique guitar if I so choose. However, my experience is different than yours, after having the distinct good fortune of experiencing a wide assortment of high end boutique, custom shop and vintage guitars over the years, I have developed an internal baseline of what I want out of a Les Paul, Strat, etc. I can tell pretty quickly if a guitar meets that threshold. Beyond that threshold to me it's more about differences and preferences and not so much better or worse.

    The one thing you do seem to conflate in your post is that nobody is questioning your right to seek out a guitar that meets your tonal and/or specification preferences. However, you chose one that infringes on Gibson's intellectual property and some people here on the LPF find that objectionable. For me it's not my place to judge. I am neither a Burst owner or actively buying and selling. My only objection is the utility of such instruments to be used to defraud. I think there should be a way to limit this without otherwise affecting the appeal of these guitars.

    That's basically it. If you find yourself in the NYC metro area and feel strong, lol, we can put our guitars in the ring with my selection of vintage and boutique amps and see who is Rocky and who is Apollo. Enjoy your guitars Pellman73.
    as is often the case here I think you misunderstood intention

    was not trying to call you out at all!

    in fact I was referring to some of the earlier posts

    but man... I honestly regret every opening my mouth here on this subject

    as renderit-- I'm out

  8. #248
    Les Paul Forum Member Elmore's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Infringement on Gibsonís intellectual property is the bottom line. What loosens the grip for me is the fact that Gibson was willing to market a copy of a Derrig (Slashís guitar). That action legitimizes the Derrig in my eyes. So Gibson themselves have glorified a replica.
    "What's it SOUND like, baby?" - Ray Charles

  9. #249

    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Is this the longest thread ever?

  10. #250

    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Too bad he made the guitar for a random Chinese guy so he got so much heat here.

    if he made a fake les paul for Slash like this builder did, no one would complain like never

    https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...es_Paul?page=4

  11. #251
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by jimeh77 View Post
    Is this the longest thread ever?
    Not even close! ll
    Pauls to the walls!

    HŁter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  12. #252
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by jimeh77 View Post
    Too bad he made the guitar for a random Chinese guy so he got so much heat here.
    This has nothing to do with it.
    Pauls to the walls!

    HŁter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  13. #253
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    [Too bad he made the guitar for a random Chinese guy so he got so much heat here.]

    Really ! How can you make such a claim I for one did not even know were this guitar was located I really don't care !!!!

    My bone is it is a fake a rip off !!!

    Why Does this Les Paul Forum turn a blind eye to the promotion of these FAKES !!!

    I asked this way back in this thread , Really people take down this thread !!!

    Im sure if there is so much interest someone will start a fake Forum !!!
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

  14. #254
    Forum Moderator T.Allen's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by jimeh77 View Post
    Is this the longest thread ever?
    No, it just feels that way.

  15. #255
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by AA00475Bassman View Post

    Im sure if there is so much interest someone will start a fake Forum !!!
    It's probably already been done. But since it is fake, how would you know?
    Pauls to the walls!

    HŁter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  16. #256
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    The way I see it this guitar belongs in the category of an "unlicensed copy" of a Gibson Les Paul. It's not a fake or counterfeit as others have stated. It's an unlicensed copy.

    Just like with other commodities (e.g., firearms, select aircraft, clothing, sporting goods, etc.) manufactuers often grant a license to a independent company to manufacture their product(s), or parts of their products, in an independent factory (most often in a foreign country) utilizing the identical designs and drawings as the original article. The company that makes the article pays a royalty or fee to the original manufacturer which allows the company to make the article.

    The original manufacturer often stations a quality control inspector in the factory of the company reproducing the article. That way, the original manufacturer is able to insure the article meets or exceeds the appropriate design specifications.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

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  17. #257
    Les Paul Forum Member Patek's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    The way I see it is more of a comparison between a print of a famous painting where the family of the artist has the intelectual rights to make prints vs an actual independant artist who has painstakingly re-painted the original using the correct oil and canvas and period correct brushes and techniques etc. But have no rights. The average R9 has the look of a print with little to no nexture compared to the original. The replica is a homage. And depending how accurate as some have stated, once or twice one could be passed off as an actual original, a Ďfake originalí. 99.9% of owners though want a homage and have no intention to pass it off other than what it is, a top end copy/replica. But they do want a real painting, a print made by the family is not what they are looking for.

    the debate about the legalities of it and if you would feel guilty about owning one depends on ones moral compass. Do those same people never go over the speed limit on the road. Do they ever jump the lights on an empty pedestrian crossing on their bicycle? If they found £5 /$5 on the street would they go and hand it in to the nearest police station... etc

    the original builders and designers of the 59 LP are all dead (probably) so itís just a big corporation that has changed hands several times that has the right to build these replicas. The high end replicas People post here are far more authentic in my view than an R9 off the rack.

    I donít own a replica yet But I certainly wouldnít feel guilty and I would feel I have something far more Ďrealí (as in closer) to an original burst, compared with Gibsonís interpretation of what iteration of their company was putting out in the 50s

  18. #258
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    It's probably already been done. But since it is fake, how would you know?
    Thanks Tom believe me I needed humor this morning !
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    He thinks the mirror is a photo of a clown ?

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

  19. #259
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    The way I see it this guitar belongs in the category of an "unlicensed copy" of a Gibson Les Paul. It's not a fake or counterfeit as others have stated. It's an unlicensed copy.
    Let me know how that logic and defense works in a Federal trial involving "unlicensed copy" US currency.
    Pauls to the walls!

    HŁter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  20. #260
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by AA00475Bassman View Post
    Thanks Tom believe me I needed humor this morning !
    There's enough to be upset/pissed off about in this world right now. Sometimes I have to remind myself to find some humor.
    Pauls to the walls!

    HŁter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  21. #261
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post

    the original builders and designers of the 59 LP are all dead (probably) so it’s just a big corporation that has changed hands several times that has the right to build these replicas.


    That's what it was in the 50's...owned by a big ass conglomerate manufacturer of mass produced instruments. Orville built like 10 instruments a year, carved from hand and the young guys who were there in the 50's witness the older workers wax poetic about the good ole 20's-30's! Think about for just a minute...the company went from a one man operation to shipping out 35,000 units/instruments a year by 1959.

    In the 50's/60's Gibson had pressure from the top to continue to increase market share, expand the company big time, increase quota's, etc etc, which they did.

    No one ever carved a 'burst from hand in the 50's paying exacting detail to every inch of the guitar, that's stupid and the guitars themselves prove otherwise as does the history on record. Every detail of the old guitars is all over the place and if any logical assumption can be made (on the basis of "holy grail" status) it's that mass manufacture of guitars works pretty damn well.

    Every replica builder & boutique company that pretends it doesn't do replicas (which is a joke) simply categorizes certain nuances that they feel makes a superior guitar. And, for every one of those silly rules they make....there are 50's Gibsons out there which break those rules which I'm sure sound just fine & dandy. After all, what they're trying to replicate is something a bunch of country boys with little to no experience built by using Henry Ford styled work specific stations....you know..an assembly line, not a Ferrari, not a Rolex, not a Van Gogh, Gibson was the biggest instrument company in the world operating out of a huge factory employing at least 500+ people on the union roster with many more temps.

    There's this absolutely gross penchant for sycophantry underlying all the ridiculous historical revisionism & tone worship. Get a guitar you like and be your own man, make your own ****ing rules.

  22. #262
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    The way I see it this guitar belongs in the category of an "unlicensed copy" of a Gibson Les Paul. It's not a fake or counterfeit as others have stated. It's an unlicensed copy.

    Just like with other commodities (e.g., firearms, select aircraft, clothing, sporting goods, etc.) manufactuers often grant a license to a independent company to manufacture their product(s), or parts of their products, in an independent factory (most often in a foreign country) utilizing the identical designs and drawings as the original article. The company that makes the article pays a royalty or fee to the original manufacturer which allows the company to make the article.

    The original manufacturer often stations a quality control inspector in the factory of the company reproducing the article. That way, the original manufacturer is able to insure the article meets or exceeds the appropriate design specifications.

    I donít think anyone questions the quality of some of these guitars. But unlicensed copy? Lol.
    Semantic tricks or more specifically euphemisms have a pretty awful track record if you look back throuhout history. Yet certain fake news organizations use euphemisms regularly to obfuscate the truth. Maybe the next time I pass the Bel-Air country club Iíll tell them that Iím an undocumented member.

  23. #263
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
    That's what it was in the 50's...owned by a big ass conglomerate manufacturer of mass produced instruments. Orville built like 10 instruments a year, carved from hand and the young guys who were there in the 50's witness the older workers wax poetic about the good ole 20's-30's! Think about for just a minute...the company went from a one man operation to shipping out 35,000 units/instruments a year by 1959.

    In the 50's/60's Gibson had pressure from the top to continue to increase market share, expand the company big time, increase quota's, etc etc, which they did.

    No one ever carved a 'burst from hand in the 50's paying exacting detail to every inch of the guitar, that's stupid and the guitars themselves prove otherwise as does the history on record. Every detail of the old guitars is all over the place and if any logical assumption can be made (on the basis of "holy grail" status) it's that mass manufacture of guitars works pretty damn well.

    Every replica builder & boutique company that pretends it doesn't do replicas (which is a joke) simply categorizes certain nuances that they feel makes a superior guitar. And, for every one of those silly rules they make....there are 50's Gibsons out there which break those rules which I'm sure sound just fine & dandy. After all, what they're trying to replicate is something a bunch of country boys with little to no experience built by using Henry Ford styled work specific stations....you know..an assembly line, not a Ferrari, not a Rolex, not a Van Gogh, Gibson was the biggest instrument company in the world operating out of a huge factory employing at least 500+ people on the union roster with many more temps.

    There's this absolutely gross penchant for sycophantry underlying all the ridiculous historical revisionism & tone worship. Get a guitar you like and be your own man, make your own ****ing rules.
    Beautifuly said Deytook.

  24. #264
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    I donít think anyone questions the quality of some of these guitars. But unlicensed copy? Lol.
    Semantic tricks or more specifically euphemisms have a pretty awful track record if you look back throuhout history. Yet certain fake news organizations use euphemisms regularly to obfuscate the truth. Maybe the next time I pass the Bel-Air country club Iíll tell them that Iím an undocumented member.
    Ordinarily I wouldn't waste my time with rubbish like this, however..........

    This .....from your vast experience and knowledge of civil tort law, and patent and trademark statutes? What patent or trademark filings and/or cases have you worked on recently? That's what I thought. None.

    I have to conclude you really know nothing. And so typical too.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
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  25. #265
    Les Paul Forum Member pinefd's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    ...Maybe the next time I pass the Bel-Air country club Iíll tell them that Iím an undocumented member.
    Good luck with that. Last I heard, they were building a 30 foot high border wall around the club to keep your type out. And I believe they were getting non-members to pay for the wall.




  26. #266
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by pinefd View Post
    Good luck with that. Last I heard, they were building a 30 foot high border wall around the club to keep your type out. And I believe they were getting non-members to pay for the wall.



    Lol, yes well to be quite honest I wouldn’t want to belong to a club that would have me as a member anyways, documented or otherwise.
    Last edited by JPP-1; 01-12-19 at 02:24 AM.

  27. #267
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Frankly I don’t care what you call yourself or what your wall plaque says any more than I care about propagandists masquerading as journalists because they have a little Id card that says they are. I happen to know what is is.

    It is my understanding an unlicensed copy is a term typically used to describe copyrighted material such as software from that actual copyright holder that is being used but is not licensed. On the other hand, Rolex watches, Luis Vuitton bags, hermes scarves, Les Pauls. The quality has no bearing on infingent and all are consider counterfeits unless they are made by or for their respective owners who have the rights to manufacture sell distribute etc. But you're an attorney so you should know this right?

    You want to argue a point and enlighten me, argue it. High handed condescension and double talk mentioning civil tort law and patent and trademark filings and calling me stupid is just a lot of hot air by someone who clearly lacks the ability to mount a cogent and convincing argument.

    And since you asked, The last patent I worked on admittedly was awhile back when I was just out of college but I managed to get all our claims approved when our patent attorneys couldn’t. The science was pretty cool too as I recall, it was a novel method for high throughput drug screening utilizing fluorescent spectroscopy. When’s the last time you invented something? That’s what I thought, never.

    i don't judge folks who want to buy one of these guitars. I even understand the appeal. However, i have no tolerance and do judge those that lack intellectual integrity and cover up the true nature of something inside a sweet sounding euphemism. Because that has been a primary hallmark of tyranny. So despite knowing nothing at least I know that. You want to leave your door unlocked and consider the strangers you find wandering in your home uninvited guests that's your business. You want to argue for your more humanistic approach to property ownership, argue it on it's merits, don't obscure the truth behind semantic tricks like some tyrant's propagandist and call me antisocial because i prefer to keep my door locked and consider strangers in my home intruders.



    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    Ordinarily I wouldn't waste my time with rubbish like this, however..........

    This .....from your vast experience and knowledge of civil tort law, and patent and trademark statutes? What patent or trademark filings and/or cases have you worked on recently? That's what I thought. None.

    I have to conclude you really know nothing. And so typical too.
    Last edited by JPP-1; 01-12-19 at 12:33 PM.

  28. #268

    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    Frankly I donít care what you call yourself or what your wall plaque says any more than I care about propagandists masquerading as journalists because they have a little Id card that says they are. I happen to know what is is.
    No, you do not know "what it is."


    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    It is my utter lack of understanding an unlicensed copy is a term typically used to describe copyrighted material such as software from that actual copyright holder that is being used but is not licensed. On the other hand, Rolex watches, Luis Vuitton bags, hermes scarves, Les Pauls. The quality has no bearing on infingent and all are consider counterfeits unless they are made by or for their respective owners who have the rights to manufacture sell distribute etc. But you're an attorney so you should know this right?
    I fixed it for you. You're welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    You want to argue a point and enlighten me, argue it. High handed condescension and double talk mentioning civil tort law and patent and trademark filings and calling me stupid is just a lot of hot air by someone who clearly lacks the ability to mount a cogent and convincing argument.

    And since you asked, The last patent I worked on admittedly was awhile back when I was just out of college but I managed to get all our claims approved when our patent attorneys couldnít. The science was pretty cool too as I recall, it was a novel method for high throughput drug screening utilizing fluorescent spectroscopy. Whenís the last time you invented something? Thatís what I thought, never.
    ...meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    i don't judge folks who want to buy one of these guitars. I even understand the appeal.
    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    However, i have no tolerance
    ...this feels true on so many levels...

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    and do judge those that lack intellectual integrity and cover up the true nature of something inside a sweet sounding euphemism.
    The wall is a euphemism for racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    Because that has been a primary hallmark of tyranny.
    So true.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    So despite knowing nothing
    So true.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    at least I know that.
    No, you probably don't know "that."

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    You want to leave your door unlocked and consider the strangers you find wandering in your home uninvited guests that's your business. You want to argue for your more humanistic approach to property ownership, argue it on it's merits, don't obscure the truth behind semantic tricks like some tyrant's propagandist
    What does Kelly Conway have to do with fake Les Pauls? She works with fake presidents.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    and call me antisocial because i prefer to keep my door locked and consider strangers in my home intruders.
    You really are Trump's mark in his con-game.

    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    ...I donít see much of an analogy with Trump, love him or hate him, it would be hard to deny that you have one guy against the tyranny of propagandist elite media, hedge fund billionaires, Silicon Valley lottery winners, Hollywood celebrities, global corpratists, not to mention universities that serve as indoctrination camps where any dissent is shunned with religious fervor.
    Clearly, you are making an overt connection to Trump.

    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.

  29. #269
    Les Paul Forum Member Patek's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    Frankly I donít care what you call yourself or what your wall plaque says any more than I care about propagandists masquerading as journalists because they have a little Id card that says they are. I happen to know what is is.

    It is my understanding an unlicensed copy is a term typically used to describe copyrighted material such as software from that actual copyright holder that is being used but is not licensed. On the other hand, Rolex watches, Luis Vuitton bags, hermes scarves, Les Pauls. The quality has no bearing on infingent and all are consider counterfeits unless they are made by or for their respective owners who have the rights to manufacture sell distribute etc. But you're an attorney so you should know this right?

    You want to argue a point and enlighten me, argue it. High handed condescension and double talk mentioning civil tort law and patent and trademark filings and calling me stupid is just a lot of hot air by someone who clearly lacks the ability to mount a cogent and convincing argument.

    And since you asked, The last patent I worked on admittedly was awhile back when I was just out of college but I managed to get all our claims approved when our patent attorneys couldnít. The science was pretty cool too as I recall, it was a novel method for high throughput drug screening utilizing fluorescent spectroscopy. Whenís the last time you invented something? Thatís what I thought, never.

    i don't judge folks who want to buy one of these guitars. I even understand the appeal. However, i have no tolerance and do judge those that lack intellectual integrity and cover up the true nature of something inside a sweet sounding euphemism. Because that has been a primary hallmark of tyranny. So despite knowing nothing at least I know that. You want to leave your door unlocked and consider the strangers you find wandering in your home uninvited guests that's your business. You want to argue for your more humanistic approach to property ownership, argue it on it's merits, don't obscure the truth behind semantic tricks like some tyrant's propagandist and call me antisocial because i prefer to keep my door locked and consider strangers in my home intruders.


    There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

    You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They canít even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.

  30. #270
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

    You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They can’t even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.
    A "replica builder" could do all of that, without forging the Gibson logo, and the Les Paul Model logo.
    Instead, they counterfeit it just to make extra money OR satisfy some buyer who has to have this look [which is why I call it posing].
    Those aspects have no effect on the quality of the guitar.
    Pauls to the walls!

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  31. #271
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

    You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They can’t even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.


    I should be practicing , sorry!


    But, for real here. The lacquer: I don't know, there is slight formula modifications but guess what: I have my own and have seen many modern Gibsons with noticeable wear and checking like vintage guitars. My '13 SJ100 top has a good bit of checking, very thin finish, great guitar. Heck, my AV'54 Fender Stratocaster is checking and starting to get finger board wear. Thing is, climate control isn't the best in my house and my instruments get left in a trunk during the winter many times. I saw a mid-00's ES335 that was well checked with some wear in a pawn shop a little while back, lots of low end Gibson I see like this too cause they get road hard & put up wet...like the old guitars did.

    Expecting checking/wear in the climate controlled house/closet ain't gonna happen and in the 60's/70's and even today it's just not feasible in many situations to keep instruments in perfect climate control...in fact I hate that mentality as if the musician world runs on heated gear trailers, lol.

    As for the processes, I disagree. Although certainly the aesthetic merit of older tooling is neat the modern presses Gibson Custom has are far more precise for seaming wood together versus the old cheap dowel clamps rigs they set up. The CNC's are now programmable to ridiculous tolerances to assure said seams come out perfect. Anyone who's subscribed to woodworking magazines that publish university forestry department studies regarding the bonds formed by certain modern glues on woods knows they hold a better molecular bond than doped up farmer's glue.. end of story there.

    I'm not dissing what the builders do, per se, I really dig Yaron and similar minds taking it to the streets and going to the nth degree in their pursuit of trying to exact a certain, uh, "tonal specimen." Just like I think ThroBak is cool to keep using all those machines & reverse engineer alloys or just like I dig what Heritage guitars used to be.

    A Les Paul was never ever designed to nor did it ever undergo hand tool carving or tap tones and similar process certain flat & arch tops had. It's just maniacal nonsense when everyone drools over a picture of a top carve "dish" saying junk like "they'll never do it right." Garbage talk, they laser scan those damn things to crazy resolutions then they're programmed into the cutter at Gibson then super fine sanded to assure no mess. Sure, not as cool on the aesthetic meter as the old stuff, but the old stuff was still filled with up to date electric powered machinery in the 50's, the only difference is the old ways were less precise.

    But, basic engineering tells me that when I look at a modern press that evenly distributes pressure across the entire block of wood (and measures it while do so to assure perfection) that I'd be smoking the good stuff to believe it's inferior a set of dowel clamps no matter how much replica builders say, without being honest, that "sloppy methods and inferior products are crucial to the tone." It's either a back asswards world or I'm just nuts.

  32. #272
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Here's a different analogy to sum up my views:



    I really love electronic music gear, and certain composers etc. Years back I would scour used/pawn shops and get cool gear at great prices. Then I got into modular synth stuff & made a couple real cool vintage scores...bad ass old analogue systems/modules. I even got things for free that were being thrown away from university music departments.


    Around the dawn of people ebay-ing frequently prices really started to creep on the old analogue ****. From the 80's Roland 303's/808's to the Buchla modules and Moogs and big box Arps bla bla bla. All of which I'd had or owned or had access to at some point, and loved. Being I wasn't in it to get rich I didn't mind selling off things at certain times to make the rent and eventually unloaded everything when a baby was born.


    Funny thing happened when those prices went up...the old guard of analogue builder came back....and they killed and are still killing it! We're talking killer sounding boxes that every knob if fully programmable/sequenceable, programmable tunings, way more powerful than ever with endless possibilities and huge sound to boot!! Good gawd the sounds out of the new stuff...for next to nothing in price too!!


    Yet, as the prices continue to get uber stupid, every time I look at some synth aficionados forum I can't believe the dumb **** I hear and read regarding the premium "vintage" gear. Mother****ers in turtlenecks paying 5 figures for old modular setups then uploading garbage samples of filter sweeps on one frequency spending hours in rhetorical flourish over how that old Modular has some tone no one else could ever comprehend Even the emails I got when I cashed in on some buchla stuff were just asinine! And, it just gets worse and WORSE!!! I mean, ANY difference in sound we're talking is a super tiny hair of noise or graininess or drift that's just normal in old gear...stuff that ain't got **** to do with composing or, at the least, won't make or break a piece/track. For some of the well off synth heads it's as if the end game of buying that old modular system revolved around one thing: BLOVIATING like a cow in heat.


    Then, people who never touched an old Buchla read that **** and mope about how awesome it must be to own one and they'll never have that kind of sound bla bla bla or some even place orders on super expensive new Buchlas etc, good gawd the whole thing is just pathetic. Yes, an old Buchla system is cool, they can fill your living room, and today IF YOU HAVE A SHRED OF CREATIVITY you can get far more possibilities with a few hundred bucks in analogue gear than you had with the Buchla decades ago!!





    So, whatever, if you think your guitar hero(s) career would have been moot if they had titebond or CNC in 1959 all I can say is you are your own worst enemy. Those guys were usually trying to push the envelope...not dabble in conservatory like study of their predecessors with rigid execution of emulating their own heroes like a lot of the popular guys whose opinions are ****ing written in stone in the minds of some today. We're supposed to progress...not regress.


    Guitars have attitudes, brighter, tighter, looser, soft, aggressive, thin, thick, rough, smooth, they don't ****ing "Blow The Doors Off Everything Else" just because yours might sound a hair more preferable for you.

  33. #273
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Excellent rant, not sure I completely understand it though.

    Still doesn't change the fact that anyone besides the owner of the Gibson brand making a Les Paul guitar with Gibson on the headstock is infringing on their IP.

    I'm not a patent attorney but that doesn't make it less fact.

  34. #274
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Patek, I see the point you’re trying to make with your analogy but I think you are being overly generous not to mention somewhat hyperbolic in your adulation of these replica builders. It isn’t a secret society. If Historics sucked so bad they were commensurate to a reprint we’d all be playing replicas.

    To use your analogy, I see it more like two high quality paintings only one uses blue made with 100 year old lapis vs blue made from 50 year old lapis with the 50 year old lapis mined somewhere else, deemed but not proven, less desirable. Now some people swear, even in the context of a very intricate painting they can tell you how old the lapis is and where it was mined from. Thing is, I’ve never seen it proven in any sort of objective, quantifiable fashion. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Just I’ve never seen it or more accurately in this case heard it. And I have been around the block,

    Precise routing and cavity dimensions and not having R9 stamped in the cavity doesn’t make for better tone but could make for a better fake. The greatest art fraud ever perpetrated utilize art created by a middling semi pro artist from queens, not some scholarly gifted art student creating a tribute to the master works.

    Afaic, it either is an original burst or its not. I mean, who verifies and documents the genus of woods used, the age of woods with these replicas. The guy who has no problem taking someone else’s design? But by all means, buy what you like, what inspires you, be it original, relic, replica whatever. I am not here to judge. But calling a historic a textureless reprint while bestowing adulation and romanticizing some guy who copies someone else’s design and has the balls to put his name on it an homage? Lol, To quote a great line from a movie “Don’t go believing that jack, That way lies damnation”





    Quote Originally Posted by Patek View Post
    There is a difference between replica 59 LPs vs a Rolex and a fake Rolex / LV bag vs a fake LV bag. They are fakes of production pieces, using inferior materials and processes in order to make something that looks like the real deal and sell it at a fraction of the price. If you want a real LV or Rolex and are happy to pay retail you can go and buy one

    You are unable to do that with Gibson! Gibson are unable or unwilling to offer a 59 LP to the same spec and the same level of human labour as they did in 59. They can’t even do the nitro right! They simply cannot offer a 59 as it was in 59, and understandably so. So there is no comparison to what the replica builders are offering. there is no alternative or oportunity to buy a real one FROM Gibson because Gibson is unable to produce one.

  35. #275
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    I laugh to scorn the idea that Gibson can't make their own guitars in their own image.

    The fakes - I've done my groundwork, and played a fair few. Good guitars all, one in particular, sensational. Whilst they have Gibson on the headstock I wouldn't take one for free, literally you couldn't gift me one of these moody guitars.

    Is this the longest thread was the cry? Not by a long chalk, but most of the epic threads on this Forum have had at their epicentre the consequential fallout from the skullduggery arising from fake acrobatics.

    I've also found that the Replica versus Historic argument to be not as clear cut as the fake lovers would suggest.

    I was recently involved in an evidence based comparative test...one of many I've been lucky to do, out of 4 guitars, my old 2001 Murphy (and the cheapeast guitar in the room by a distance) literally left the rest for dead, a Yaron, a HM Makeover, and an outright UK made fake. The same Murphy has been up against 2 well known 'Bursts in separate tests, it was second best on both occasions, but not by the country miles some would have you believe.

    One thing to bear in mind - I'm the player behind these opinions, my playing has it's technical limitations but it in itself forms my opinion on what I consider great, by nature my opinion is descriptive.

    Further, my compass by nature is mine to steer to, any direction or position is descriptive. When expressing a view I'm simply describing, I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. Nobody needs my approval, nor do I seek the same.


    Where I find myself in conflict with many is trying to ally that descriptive opinion with the prescriptive opinion that seems to be currency in any discussion of fakes. ie It's not a Gibson made guitar, but it's how Gibson should be making them...OR...Gibson can't make them like this, thereby in some perverse sense justifying outright fakery. I find it absolute nonsense.

    Why does it matter?

    A place where anything goes is a place where eventually no-one goes.

    There is a marked paucity of contribution to this Forum, the question is, does this overall subject matter - fakes- have a direct bearing on that position. The LPF is missing a trick in my humble opinion, that being a fake free zone. It'd certainly give us a USP.

    This stuff used to be fun, it just isn't anymore.

    Back to the wood and wire methinks, that stuff just doesn't lie.
    Last edited by ourmaninthenorth; 01-13-19 at 08:31 AM. Reason: thinking too slowly, typing too quickly...
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  36. #276
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    I have no connnection to Trump or fake Les Pauls. Why make this political.

    The wall is a euphemism for having sovereign borders.
    You must be deep in that coolaid, living in your well manicured safe space, eating gluten free muffins with the other snowflakes, suddenly defending the borders of a nation has become racist? Lmfao.

    But that’s how it is with you illiberal, intolerant fanatics. The elders in Salem used to call those that disagreed with them witch and heretic. You use terms like racist and xenophobe to silence shame and destroy any one who doesn’t submit to your world view.

    Intellectual Diversity and open discourse are an anathema to you, trendy race shaming, pc censorship and cultural euphemisms are all you have when logic, reason and history prove that everything you propagate is fallacious not to mention dangerous. Tying privilege to someone’s identity is a great tactic when your goal is absolute power regardless of how many millions suffer and die. It’s been done before to horrific effect. Turn off CNN and pickup a history book.

    I never made a judgement on Trump any more than I made a judgement on those who buy counterfeit replica guitars. I made a judgement on euphemisms and propagandists that use them for the legitimate reasons I stated.

    You think euphemisms are good than argue that point. If you think open borders and millions of needy unskilled people are going to help working poor documented American families living in depressed urban and rural areas who will end up sharing government services with these “undocumented citizens”. Argue it. Just not here.

    If you think unlicensed copy is not the appropriate term to describe legitimate software used without a valid license but Better suited to describe counterfeit Rolex watches and Les Pauls Argue it. Don’t change my words like a petty intellectually weakling. That’s the thing with trigger warnings, safe spaces, where SJW thought police are totally ascendent, after awhile your mind turns to mush, you can only repeatedly shout racist and stamp your feet when faced with a diversity of opinions.

    Changing my words and insinuating those who support border security are racist reveals your own ignorance and intolerance not to mention lack of intellectual vigor. Life must be bliss for you inside your nondiverse bubble.



    Quote Originally Posted by brandtkronholm View Post
    No, you do not know "what it is."




    I fixed it for you. You're welcome.



    ...meh.



    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



    ...this feels true on so many levels...



    The wall is a euphemism for racism.



    So true.



    So true.



    No, you probably don't know "that."



    What does Kelly Conway have to do with fake Les Pauls? She works with fake presidents.



    You really are Trump's mark in his con-game.

    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



    Clearly, you are making an overt connection to Trump.

    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.
    Last edited by JPP-1; 01-13-19 at 02:56 PM.

  37. #277
    Les Paul Forum Member Shocktop99's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by Pellman73 View Post
    We should try to do it!

    Maybe we should all try to meet up and do songbirds or have a meet at one of the big guitars shows

    I did try to get some traction for a golf thing here in Pinehurst... Golf and Guitar hang kind of thing-- that did not get much tho!

    would love to meet some of you guys in person

    while we quibble about some of this stuff and it gets heated in the grand scheme of things we have a lot more in common amongst ourselves here than we do with the rest of the world out there!
    I second this, i'd love to hang with some of you guys! sounds like fun!!
    1979 Wine Red Gibson Les Paul Custom
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  38. #278
    Les Paul Forum Member Wallace's Avatar
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    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    I laugh to scorn the idea that Gibson can't make their own guitars in their own image.

    The fakes - I've done my groundwork, and played a fair few. Good guitars all, one in particular, sensational. Whilst they have Gibson on the headstock I wouldn't take one for free, literally you couldn't gift me one of these moody guitars.

    Is this the longest thread was the cry? Not by a long chalk, but most of the epic threads on this Forum have had at their epicentre the consequential fallout from the skullduggery arising from fake acrobatics.

    I've also found that the Replica versus Historic argument to be not as clear cut as the fake lovers would suggest.

    I was recently involved in an evidence based comparative test...one of many I've been lucky to do, out of 4 guitars, my old 2001 Murphy (and the cheapeast guitar in the room by a distance) literally left the rest for dead, a Yaron, a HM Makeover, and an outright UK made fake. The same Murphy has been up against 2 well known 'Bursts in separate tests, it was second best on both occasions, but not by the country miles some would have you believe.

    One thing to bear in mind - I'm the player behind these opinions, my playing has it's technical limitations but it in itself forms my opinion on what I consider great, by nature my opinion is descriptive.

    Further, my compass by nature is mine to steer to, any direction or position is descriptive. When expressing a view I'm simply describing, I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. Nobody needs my approval, nor do I seek the same.


    Where I find myself in conflict with many is trying to ally that descriptive opinion with the prescriptive opinion that seems to be currency in any discussion of fakes. ie It's not a Gibson made guitar, but it's how Gibson should be making them...OR...Gibson can't make them like this, thereby in some perverse sense justifying outright fakery. I find it absolute nonsense.

    Why does it matter?

    A place where anything goes is a place where eventually no-one goes.

    There is a marked paucity of contribution to this Forum, the question is, does this overall subject matter - fakes- have a direct bearing on that position. The LPF is missing a trick in my humble opinion, that being a fake free zone. It'd certainly give us a USP.

    This stuff used to be fun, it just isn't anymore.

    Back to the wood and wire methinks, that stuff just doesn't lie.
    well said.


    Where's the like button?
    Wallace.

    "you used Mr Sheen on my what?"

  39. #279

    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    I have no connnection to Trump or fake Les Pauls. Why make this political.

    The wall is a euphemism for having sovereign borders.
    You must be deep in that coolaid, living in your well manicured safe space, eating gluten free muffins with the other snowflakes, suddenly defending the borders of a nation has become racist? Lmfao.

    But thatís how it is with you illiberal, intolerant fanatics. The elders in Salem used to call those that disagreed with them witch and heretic. You use terms like racist and xenophobe to silence shame and destroy any one who doesnít submit to your world view.

    Intellectual Diversity and open discourse are an anathema to you, trendy race shaming, pc censorship and cultural euphemisms are all you have when logic, reason and history prove that everything you propagate is fallacious not to mention dangerous. Tying privilege to someoneís identity is a great tactic when your goal is absolute power regardless of how many millions suffer and die. Itís been done before to horrific effect. Turn off CNN and pickup a history book.

    I never made a judgement on Trump any more than I made a judgement on those who buy counterfeit replica guitars. I made a judgement on euphemisms and propagandists that use them for the legitimate reasons I stated.

    You think euphemisms are good than argue that point. If you think open borders and millions of needy unskilled people are going to help working poor documented American families living in depressed urban and rural areas who will end up sharing government services with these ďundocumented citizensĒ. Argue it. Just not here.

    If you think unlicensed copy is not the appropriate term to describe legitimate software used without a valid license but Better suited to describe counterfeit Rolex watches and Les Pauls Argue it. Donít change my words like a petty intellectually weakling. Thatís the thing with trigger warnings, safe spaces, where SJW thought police are totally ascendent, after awhile your mind turns to mush, you can only repeatedly shout racist and stamp your feet when faced with a diversity of opinions.

    Changing my words and insinuating those who support border security are racist reveals your own ignorance and intolerance not to mention lack of intellectual vigor. Life must be bliss for you inside your nondiverse bubble.
    TLDR
    Youíre an easy mark!

  40. #280
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
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    Lost in the Ozarks [again]
    Posts
    41,619

    Re: My new 1958 les paull replica

    Quote Originally Posted by brandtkronholm View Post
    No, you do not know "what it is."




    I fixed it for you. You're welcome.



    ...meh.



    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



    ...this feels true on so many levels...



    The wall is a euphemism for racism.



    So true.



    So true.



    No, you probably don't know "that."



    What does Kelly Conway have to do with fake Les Pauls? She works with fake presidents.



    You really are Trump's mark in his con-game.

    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.



    Clearly, you are making an overt connection to Trump.

    Fake Les Pauls are deceptive.
    What's with all the political BS?
    Pauls to the walls!

    HŁter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

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