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  1. #81
    Les Paul Forum Member Reno_1ted's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold M. View Post
    great craftsmanship but I liked the guitar much better as it came from the factory, now it's just another fake burst
    Again, there is nothing 'fake' about this guitar. The OP has just fully documented, on a public forum, exactly what it was, exactly what he has done to it, and exactly what it is now. Call it a conversion, call it a restoration, call it a custom, a standard, a custard or a burst - YMMV etc. But there is nothing 'fake' about this one. Fake implies that there has been dishonesty to deceive. I don't think the OP could be any more honest, he didn't have to publicly share his work nor the story behind it, not justify any of it, but he chose to do so.
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  2. #82
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Agree, this is absolutely not a fake or forgery.

  3. #83
    Les Paul Forum Member StSpider's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Reno_1ted View Post
    Fake implies that there has been dishonesty to deceive.
    Not at all, not unless we start attributing random meaning to words. Fake means "not real", and nothing more. Thig guitar presents itself as a burst. It is not a real burst. Therefore it is a fake burst.

    It is not derogatory. It's simply the truth of the matter.

    Besides, the signs of the binding removal are prettly clearly there if you were to inspect the guitar as anyone would do if it was for sale, so I don't think this instrument could ever fool anyone.
    - 2006 Les Paul Historic R4 Oxblood
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  4. #84

    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by hoss View Post
    This conversion shows great craftsmanship.
    +1

  5. #85
    Les Paul Forum Member EpiLP1985's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Semantics and for/against arguments aside, it's a very nice looking guitar and I'd sure love to play it.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." Aristotle

  6. #86
    Les Paul Forum Member slimdave's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by hoss View Post
    This conversion shows great craftsmanship.
    Sure, it's really impressive. And remember: it's his guitar, he can whatever he wants with it.

  7. #87
    Les Paul Forum Member madformac's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post

    But Customs lasted into 1961. Every 1961 LP Custom [black, archtop] I have seen had an all mahogany body.
    Grabbing a Standard at that time makes little sense.
    But Standards didn't last of course. My theory is, as the serial number may not be original, any bodies remaining at the end of the run of Standards could well have been sprayed black and routed as Customs.

    If Gibson had excess bodies prepped with maple caps and were winding up the Standards, it would make sense for them to spray them black and use them for Customs.. After all, who at the time would be bothered what was under the paint?

  8. #88
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    I remember this guitar before Ebay prior to Bill Pandolfi owning it and then going to Kim for refin, then being stripped of parts, then sold just as the body. The wire channel rout is the weird part as we know they are drilled in customs as apposed to routed with maple cap and mahogany body. #1 we know the headstock, veneer, width was correct, #2 body binding correct under ebony board, #3 ebony board and inlays correct, neck binding correct. So if it was sent back to Gibson later in the 60's, hence refinished, neck shaved, impressed serial. Is the serial documented, I think it was from an earlier thread years ago? I remember the wire channel rout being very rough and not very straight which didnt look right. How I look at it, why would anyone put a maple cap on a 58-61 Custom post factory outside of factory. Is it possible that this guitar was a Black Custom, sent back for a maple top, new body binding, changed wire channel rout neck thinned out and kept as a 3 pickup guitar. Strange indeed. I think because we definitely don't know is why the guitar had made its rounds around town. Leftover Custom neck and Burst body cut for 3xand custom binding is another logical scenario.
    Top carves are sexy

  9. #89
    Les Paul Forum Member hoss's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    .
    Last edited by hoss; 11-21-18 at 05:21 PM.

  10. #90
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by MapleFlame View Post
    I remember this guitar before Ebay prior to Bill Pandolfi owning it and then going to Kim for refin, then being stripped of parts, then sold just as the body. The wire channel rout is the weird part as we know they are drilled in customs as apposed to routed with maple cap and mahogany body. #1 we know the headstock, veneer, width was correct, #2 body binding correct under ebony board, #3 ebony board and inlays correct, neck binding correct. So if it was sent back to Gibson later in the 60's, hence refinished, neck shaved, impressed serial. Is the serial documented, I think it was from an earlier thread years ago? I remember the wire channel rout being very rough and not very straight which didnt look right. How I look at it, why would anyone put a maple cap on a 58-61 Custom post factory outside of factory. Is it possible that this guitar was a Black Custom, sent back for a maple top, new body binding, changed wire channel rout neck thinned out and kept as a 3 pickup guitar. Strange indeed. I think because we definitely don't know is why the guitar had made its rounds around town. Leftover Custom neck and Burst body cut for 3xand custom binding is another logical scenario.
    To flatten off the solid body to take the maple top, wouldn't the neck have to come off ?

    Yukki's narrative states that the joint is undisturbed.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  11. #91
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Sheesh there sure are a lot of wild explanations of what this guitar could be.

    Has anyone looked closely at the control cavity routes for details that are known to be consistent with a 1960 Burst?

    Based on the information presented so far, I'm not convinced this body was made in 1960. YMMV

  12. #92
    Les Paul Forum Member hoss's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Sheesh there sure are a lot of wild explanations of what this guitar could be.

    I'm not convinced this body was made in 1960. YMMV
    Let's call it a "vintage custom burst conversion fugazzi".

  13. #93
    Les Paul Forum Member Reno_1ted's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Based on the information presented so far, I'm not convinced this body was made in 1960. YMMV
    Based on an in-hand inspection from the OP (one of maybe two people in the UK I would trust to make these types of assessments), I would side with it being a burst era body.
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  14. #94
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    drama aside ..the end product is one sweet looking piece of work

  15. #95
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    To flatten off the solid body to take the maple top, wouldn't the neck have to come off ?

    Yukki's narrative states that the joint is undisturbed.
    Agreed, it was just a thought and I did point out all the parts of the body that are in tact of seeming factory
    Top carves are sexy

  16. #96

    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    For the life of me I can't figure out how the hell he managed to get that new center maple block to fit so seamlessly.

  17. #97
    Les Paul Forum Member JPP-1's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    You are incredibly talented. I wish I had the skill to do what you do. If I ever needed a restoration I would try and convince you to take the job. And your threads are wonderful, both informative and entertaining.

    However, by sharing here on a forum I think you also open yourself up to certain points of discussion. First, what you had was a one of a kind 3 PAF 1960 Custom with an actual factory center seam maple cap. How many of those were made and are out there in this world? Sure it was refinished, so what? You could have kept it as is or restored it to its former glory.

    Regardless, you took a one of a kind piece of Gibson Les Paul history and turned it into a 1959 Les Paul standard copy. There are thousands of great Les Paul Pauls out there that were purposely built as recreations of the 1959 Les Paul Standard.

    People that hack vintage juniors and early gold top Les Pauls because they have some neurotic old growth mahogany fetish is unfortunate afaic. If you convinced yourself there is a major difference between the age of wood why not have a counterfeit Les Paul made with the proper aged woods rather than essentially hacking a vintage Gibson to harvest its wood.

    Bottom line, I’m a big believer in property rights so it’s your guitar to do as you wish but i think in chasing some ideal you hacked up a true piece of vintage Gibson history which at the end of the day is no more a burst than a historic. A guitar either is or isn’t a Burst. It’s binary, there’s no kinda, but that’s a great term for vintage guitar dealers.

    I think what you had was real special as cool as it comes, hence my disappointment. Here are a couple of historics that sound burstly good and would surely give a burst hit to anyone who played them. I’m not sure what more you can ask for tone wise. With that said I hope your Les Paul brings you joy. At the end that’s what it’s all about







    Quote Originally Posted by Jumping@Shadows View Post
    Now, on the fun part- finishing!

    I use pure nitro lacquers, colour fast pore fillers and aniline dyes in my finishes, and shooting a correct ‘50s sunburst is a personal passion.

    With the top repairs and binding restoration to the back, and that beautiful flamed top I opted for something approaching a Hotlanta style Darkburst, but more towards a ‘50s 335 finish with rich cherry blending into burgundy/tobacco.

    First comes the yellow base coat:



    Then fast forward through colour and amber coats, the finished product:







    I fitted all ‘50s parts including long magnet zebra PAFs, full ‘59 loom, late ‘50s nickel hardware, cut ‘56 guard, real cream bridge M69 ring and gold bell knobs, and after owning and working on probably 100-120 ‘50s Les Pauls, and playing and handling countless others on a daily basis for several years, even after all this guitar has been through its an absolutely exceptionally killer sounding example!

    It weighs 9lbs exactly and has the ideal chunky ‘59 neck shape, and the PAFs are absolutely definitive of the Peter Green/ZZ Top/Led Zep tones that have haunted me all my life, and more so it looks absolutely stunning with a compelling Burst vibe!

    I’ll be ageing it over the coming months, but for the moment it’s on a strap around my neck getting played every spare minute I have, and I’m also going to do the unthinkable and actually gig it!!

    I’ve had piles of player grade vintage guitars and a good few conversions, but this one feels different to me- to know it’s a factory centre seam flame top 1960 Les Paul, with the original body/neck/top, and looking, playing and sounding as it does, really gives me a heady Burst hit every time I handle it, and it’s the closest I’ll ever come to being in that gang, and having done every last bit of the work myself, from concept to completion makes it all the more special.

    Thanks for following the thread, and I hope some of you have enjoyed the process, and if you’d like to see more of my vintage restorations please follow me on Instagram under ‘playergradevintage’.

  18. #98
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by MapleFlame View Post
    Agreed, it was just a thought and I did point out all the parts of the body that are in tact of seeming factory
    Cheers Steve, just wanted to check that my thinking was right on this detail.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  19. #99
    Forum Moderator T.Allen's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    From now on, before anybody does anything with any guitar, they must check with us first.

  20. #100
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    OP's chasing Excalibur here.


    What kind of world do you "rationalists" want to live in? The post enlightenment age for all it's progression has created cultures where this is this and that is that. Boring. We humans just a short time ago believed everything around the corner or in front of our eyes was governed by other-worldly powers from the heavens above to the hells below and all manners in between. And, those of the cloth made damn sure everyone below followed rank. In it's our DNA, our ancestral conscience, the experience of being itself.

    This silly **** where "oh, if we clone _____ 'bout near the molecular level then it ought to the same" is as exciting as a trip to the dentist.

    The 'burst chase is the modern day portal to the sacred grounds we've always tread on. Those of the sword having a direct connection to the holy grail wielding prophets whose message was spread wide, then the keepers of the faith, the students of the faith, the curious onlookers, and the peasantry. We need divinity, we need hierarchy, and we need these labels, this ensures order! For, without this guise of sonic spirituality the conclusions the average man would come to are bound to be wrought with such fluff as "equality."





    By all means, chop up whatever piece you may to satisfy your yearning for holiest of grails. And, maybe one day you'll possess the holy grail, then you might need another one, then maybe another, then maybe a couple other different holy grails, then you might see a different holy grail at a steal and you'll really need that one, and you've nothing to do this weekend so maybe why not bring the wallet and look at a few more? can't hurt.....

  21. #101
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    ^

    So is that a yes or no on whether or not I can change me strings?

    I'm leaning towards a maybe...
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  22. #102
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Allen View Post
    From now on, before anybody does anything with any guitar, they must check with us first.


    Awesome

  23. #103
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    ^

    So is that a yes or no on whether or not I can change me strings?

    I'm leaning towards a maybe...


    Change strings? Just rub'em with a little shot of WD-40 can't solve, known for it's water displacement but under appreciated for it's manly musk, the ladies will be envious.

  24. #104
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
    Just rub'em with a little shot of WD-40 .....
    Who, the Ladies or the strings? Or both?

    Have to say, it's all getting very worringly technical...I may need counselling.
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  25. #105
    Les Paul Forum Member latestarter's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    That colour is fantastic...
    Otherwise known as Grant.

  26. #106
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    Cheers Steve, just wanted to check that my thinking was right on this detail.
    4
    Top carves are sexy

  27. #107
    Les Paul Forum Member Reno_1ted's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by JPP-1 View Post
    ... is no more a burst than a historic.
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  28. #108
    Les Paul Forum Member tooold's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Beautiful work, Yuuki.

    Aren't you glad you shared?

  29. #109

    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Wow, thread’s got legs!

    I’ve stayed out of this as I’m neither going to convince the naysayers, nor really sought the approval of those who dig the process/results, but I will say despite this guitar going through two of the most established vintage dealers/restoration experts in the business both of whom identified it as a factory maple capped LPC, no one on earth knows it better than I, and I’m fully qualified to identify it as what it is, no matter how impassioned long distance theorists/critics may be.

    As for the ‘moral’ outrage- as has been stated by various contributors- this was for sale all over the net and at major guitar shows for months, completely ignored, steadily falling in price until the owner offered it to me as a husk as in his own words he was ‘done with it’.

    Long and the short is, it was a curious oddity who’s structural quirk was never meant to be known or celebrated, amateurishly, poorly and permanently modified to the point it was completely unattractive to play by normal Les Paul standards (perhaps that’s why it didn’t sell at the shows...), then aesthetically improved to make the most of its most obvious strength, the flamey Burst body, but without the fundamental neck/playability issues addressed, and which everyone screaming murder had endless one click chances to buy and cherish, at a rapidly falling price, but absolutely nobody wanted..

    Now it’s perhaps the best sounding and playing Les Paul I’ve had to date, and having spent years around original Bursts and PAF Les Pauls day in day out, it’s 100% there tonally, and if you step away from the outrage, I think most would agree..

    https://vimeo.com/user92292343

    Here’s another clip from my Instagram page:

    https://instagram.com/p/Bqw8CNhHL3o/

    Anyone who knows me, knows I’m about rebuilding rejected wrecks, and I take on the projects no one else will bother with, and pride myself in producing an end result that regularly astonishes, and I think this is my best outcome to date, and having the background I do and my familiarity with what a Burst looks, feels and sounds like, I’m pretty sure there’s not a vintage PAF Les Paul out there who wouldn’t be blown away by it.
    Last edited by Jumping@Shadows; 12-01-18 at 03:37 PM.

  30. #110

    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Perhaps this will embed..?

    https://youtu.be/3k5piUZCDuA

  31. #111
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration



    That'll be £147.87 plus VAT Yukki.....
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  32. #112

    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Cheque is in the post my friend!

  33. #113
    Les Paul Forum Member Keefoman's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumping@Shadows View Post
    Perhaps this will embed..?

    https://youtu.be/3k5piUZCDuA
    Use the insert video button, and remove the s from https in youtubelink.

  34. #114
    Les Paul Forum Member Dave P's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    People are (still) hacking up perfectly good P90 Goldtops and don't get the hate like this guy did. Have a replica built, and you get raked over the coals for that too. So you're fucked either way.
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  35. #115
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Wrong thread …
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  36. #116
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    And another!
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  37. #117
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumping@Shadows View Post

    Anyone who knows me, knows I’m about rebuilding rejected wrecks, and I take on the projects no one else will bother with, and pride myself in producing an end result that regularly astonishes, and I think this is my best outcome to date, and having the background I do and my familiarity with what a Burst looks, feels and sounds like, I’m pretty sure there’s not a vintage PAF Les Paul out there who wouldn’t be blown away by it.
    Well - consider me blown away. Really impressive work! Just watched the video and would love to see more.
    Its going into my database of references for great Les Paul tone examples.

    Is that you playing as well? At 12 seconds into the youtube clip, you bend from a D to E on the G string, and then F# to G on the B.
    I'll be spending the rest of my entire night trying to rip off that lick!

  38. #118

    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by goldTopDeluxe View Post
    Well - consider me blown away. Really impressive work! Just watched the video and would love to see more.
    Its going into my database of references for great Les Paul tone examples.

    Is that you playing as well? At 12 seconds into the youtube clip, you bend from a D to E on the G string, and then F# to G on the B.
    I'll be spending the rest of my entire night trying to rip off that lick!
    Ha! Thanks man! It’s a superb guitar, and I literally can’t freely move for vintage Gibson’s in my tiny workshop

    Yeah that steel lick is sweet, and I’ve not played it in years, but the tone was so crystalline and glassy, and the notes bloomed and fused so beautifully, that’s just what came out, and it was also a deliberate attempt to demonstrate a great PAF LP, is as transparent and versatile as any Tele.

  39. #119
    Les Paul Forum Member Keefoman's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    I think you’ve got a real beauty of a guitar, and your playng an sound is impeccable!

  40. #120
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: 1960 Burst Restoration

    I'm one who converted a decent '56 Les Paul into a "Burst". It was well documented here from before I bought it on eBay. It had a fairly lame refin and some other issues. I rebuilt it without disturbing the original neck joint and it was a Tune-O-matic guitar. Yeah, there's some special magic with a Les Paul built in the "golden era".

    I think your work is amazing and I'm sure the guitar feels just a great to play as many Bursts.

    I don't really care what it it's called--conversion, restoration, etc.

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