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1960 Burst Restoration

Reno_1ted

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
665
great craftsmanship but I liked the guitar much better as it came from the factory, now it's just another fake burst

Again, there is nothing 'fake' about this guitar. The OP has just fully documented, on a public forum, exactly what it was, exactly what he has done to it, and exactly what it is now. Call it a conversion, call it a restoration, call it a custom, a standard, a custard or a burst - YMMV etc. But there is nothing 'fake' about this one. Fake implies that there has been dishonesty to deceive. I don't think the OP could be any more honest, he didn't have to publicly share his work nor the story behind it, not justify any of it, but he chose to do so.
 

J.D.

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
10,030
Agree, this is absolutely not a fake or forgery.
 

StSpider

Active member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Messages
2,148
Fake implies that there has been dishonesty to deceive.

Not at all, not unless we start attributing random meaning to words. Fake means "not real", and nothing more. Thig guitar presents itself as a burst. It is not a real burst. Therefore it is a fake burst.

It is not derogatory. It's simply the truth of the matter.

Besides, the signs of the binding removal are prettly clearly there if you were to inspect the guitar as anyone would do if it was for sale, so I don't think this instrument could ever fool anyone.
 

EpiLP1985

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
113
Semantics and for/against arguments aside, it's a very nice looking guitar and I'd sure love to play it.
 

madformac

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
719
But Customs lasted into 1961. Every 1961 LP Custom [black, archtop] I have seen had an all mahogany body.
Grabbing a Standard at that time makes little sense. :hmm

But Standards didn't last of course. My theory is, as the serial number may not be original, any bodies remaining at the end of the run of Standards could well have been sprayed black and routed as Customs.

If Gibson had excess bodies prepped with maple caps and were winding up the Standards, it would make sense for them to spray them black and use them for Customs.. After all, who at the time would be bothered what was under the paint?
 

MapleFlame

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Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,044
I remember this guitar before Ebay prior to Bill Pandolfi owning it and then going to Kim for refin, then being stripped of parts, then sold just as the body. The wire channel rout is the weird part as we know they are drilled in customs as apposed to routed with maple cap and mahogany body. #1 we know the headstock, veneer, width was correct, #2 body binding correct under ebony board, #3 ebony board and inlays correct, neck binding correct. So if it was sent back to Gibson later in the 60's, hence refinished, neck shaved, impressed serial. Is the serial documented, I think it was from an earlier thread years ago? I remember the wire channel rout being very rough and not very straight which didnt look right. How I look at it, why would anyone put a maple cap on a 58-61 Custom post factory outside of factory. Is it possible that this guitar was a Black Custom, sent back for a maple top, new body binding, changed wire channel rout neck thinned out and kept as a 3 pickup guitar. Strange indeed. I think because we definitely don't know is why the guitar had made its rounds around town. Leftover Custom neck and Burst body cut for 3xand custom binding is another logical scenario.
 

ourmaninthenorth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
7,119
I remember this guitar before Ebay prior to Bill Pandolfi owning it and then going to Kim for refin, then being stripped of parts, then sold just as the body. The wire channel rout is the weird part as we know they are drilled in customs as apposed to routed with maple cap and mahogany body. #1 we know the headstock, veneer, width was correct, #2 body binding correct under ebony board, #3 ebony board and inlays correct, neck binding correct. So if it was sent back to Gibson later in the 60's, hence refinished, neck shaved, impressed serial. Is the serial documented, I think it was from an earlier thread years ago? I remember the wire channel rout being very rough and not very straight which didnt look right. How I look at it, why would anyone put a maple cap on a 58-61 Custom post factory outside of factory. Is it possible that this guitar was a Black Custom, sent back for a maple top, new body binding, changed wire channel rout neck thinned out and kept as a 3 pickup guitar. Strange indeed. I think because we definitely don't know is why the guitar had made its rounds around town. Leftover Custom neck and Burst body cut for 3xand custom binding is another logical scenario.

To flatten off the solid body to take the maple top, wouldn't the neck have to come off ?

Yukki's narrative states that the joint is undisturbed.
 

J.D.

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
10,030
Sheesh there sure are a lot of wild explanations of what this guitar could be.

Has anyone looked closely at the control cavity routes for details that are known to be consistent with a 1960 Burst?

Based on the information presented so far, I'm not convinced this body was made in 1960. YMMV :wah
 

hoss

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
6,748
Sheesh there sure are a lot of wild explanations of what this guitar could be.

I'm not convinced this body was made in 1960. YMMV :wah
Let's call it a "vintage custom burst conversion fugazzi".
 

Reno_1ted

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
665
Based on the information presented so far, I'm not convinced this body was made in 1960. YMMV :wah

Based on an in-hand inspection from the OP (one of maybe two people in the UK I would trust to make these types of assessments), I would side with it being a burst era body.
 

MapleFlame

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Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,044
To flatten off the solid body to take the maple top, wouldn't the neck have to come off ?

Yukki's narrative states that the joint is undisturbed.

Agreed, it was just a thought and I did point out all the parts of the body that are in tact of seeming factory
 

jalevinemd

Member
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
916
For the life of me I can't figure out how the hell he managed to get that new center maple block to fit so seamlessly. :peace2
 

JPP-1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
You are incredibly talented. I wish I had the skill to do what you do. If I ever needed a restoration I would try and convince you to take the job. And your threads are wonderful, both informative and entertaining.

However, by sharing here on a forum I think you also open yourself up to certain points of discussion. First, what you had was a one of a kind 3 PAF 1960 Custom with an actual factory center seam maple cap. How many of those were made and are out there in this world? Sure it was refinished, so what? You could have kept it as is or restored it to its former glory.

Regardless, you took a one of a kind piece of Gibson Les Paul history and turned it into a 1959 Les Paul standard copy. There are thousands of great Les Paul Pauls out there that were purposely built as recreations of the 1959 Les Paul Standard.

People that hack vintage juniors and early gold top Les Pauls because they have some neurotic old growth mahogany fetish is unfortunate afaic. If you convinced yourself there is a major difference between the age of wood why not have a counterfeit Les Paul made with the proper aged woods rather than essentially hacking a vintage Gibson to harvest its wood.

Bottom line, I’m a big believer in property rights so it’s your guitar to do as you wish but i think in chasing some ideal you hacked up a true piece of vintage Gibson history which at the end of the day is no more a burst than a historic. A guitar either is or isn’t a Burst. It’s binary, there’s no kinda, but that’s a great term for vintage guitar dealers.

I think what you had was real special as cool as it comes, hence my disappointment. Here are a couple of historics that sound burstly good and would surely give a burst hit to anyone who played them. I’m not sure what more you can ask for tone wise. With that said I hope your Les Paul brings you joy. At the end that’s what it’s all about





Now, on the fun part- finishing!

I use pure nitro lacquers, colour fast pore fillers and aniline dyes in my finishes, and shooting a correct ‘50s sunburst is a personal passion.

With the top repairs and binding restoration to the back, and that beautiful flamed top I opted for something approaching a Hotlanta style Darkburst, but more towards a ‘50s 335 finish with rich cherry blending into burgundy/tobacco.

First comes the yellow base coat:

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Then fast forward through colour and amber coats, the finished product:

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I fitted all ‘50s parts including long magnet zebra PAFs, full ‘59 loom, late ‘50s nickel hardware, cut ‘56 guard, real cream bridge M69 ring and gold bell knobs, and after owning and working on probably 100-120 ‘50s Les Pauls, and playing and handling countless others on a daily basis for several years, even after all this guitar has been through its an absolutely exceptionally killer sounding example!

It weighs 9lbs exactly and has the ideal chunky ‘59 neck shape, and the PAFs are absolutely definitive of the Peter Green/ZZ Top/Led Zep tones that have haunted me all my life, and more so it looks absolutely stunning with a compelling Burst vibe!

I’ll be ageing it over the coming months, but for the moment it’s on a strap around my neck getting played every spare minute I have, and I’m also going to do the unthinkable and actually gig it!!

I’ve had piles of player grade vintage guitars and a good few conversions, but this one feels different to me- to know it’s a factory centre seam flame top 1960 Les Paul, with the original body/neck/top, and looking, playing and sounding as it does, really gives me a heady Burst hit every time I handle it, and it’s the closest I’ll ever come to being in that gang, and having done every last bit of the work myself, from concept to completion makes it all the more special.

Thanks for following the thread, and I hope some of you have enjoyed the process, and if you’d like to see more of my vintage restorations please follow me on Instagram under ‘playergradevintage’.
 

T.Allen

Moderator
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
2,662
From now on, before anybody does anything with any guitar, they must check with us first. :laugh2:
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,593
OP's chasing Excalibur here.


What kind of world do you "rationalists" want to live in? The post enlightenment age for all it's progression has created cultures where this is this and that is that. Boring. We humans just a short time ago believed everything around the corner or in front of our eyes was governed by other-worldly powers from the heavens above to the hells below and all manners in between. And, those of the cloth made damn sure everyone below followed rank. In it's our DNA, our ancestral conscience, the experience of being itself.

This silly **** where "oh, if we clone _____ 'bout near the molecular level then it ought to the same" is as exciting as a trip to the dentist.

The 'burst chase is the modern day portal to the sacred grounds we've always tread on. Those of the sword having a direct connection to the holy grail wielding prophets whose message was spread wide, then the keepers of the faith, the students of the faith, the curious onlookers, and the peasantry. We need divinity, we need hierarchy, and we need these labels, this ensures order! For, without this guise of sonic spirituality the conclusions the average man would come to are bound to be wrought with such fluff as "equality."





By all means, chop up whatever piece you may to satisfy your yearning for holiest of grails. And, maybe one day you'll possess the holy grail, then you might need another one, then maybe another, then maybe a couple other different holy grails, then you might see a different holy grail at a steal and you'll really need that one, and you've nothing to do this weekend so maybe why not bring the wallet and look at a few more? can't hurt.....
 
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