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  1. #41

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    All the one's mentioned above, and I'll add monty's pickups PAF's that are also highly rated, esp. for the "fat tele" type of vintage PAF tones.

    I personally think that with a good reissue guitar and a good quality PAF reproduction set that gives you the type of basic PAF tone you like, lower wind brighter and clearer, vs higher wind fatter and more output, etc. you'll be at least 90% there, and then you can move on and not worry about it. Then you can just keep focusing on perfecting your playing, which is what it will come down to anyway, unless you are already a master.

  2. #42
    Les Paul Forum Member Elmore's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by RocknRollShakeUp View Post
    All the one's mentioned above, and I'll add monty's pickups PAF's that are also highly rated, esp. for the "fat tele" type of vintage PAF tones.

    I personally think that with a good reissue guitar and a good quality PAF reproduction set that gives you the type of basic PAF tone you like, lower wind brighter and clearer, vs higher wind fatter and more output, etc. you'll be at least 90% there, and then you can move on and not worry about it. Then you can just keep focusing on perfecting your playing, which is what it will come down to anyway, unless you are already a master.
    Yes. Donít worry about the extra 10%. Focus on being able to hold someoneís attention with your playing. Great point.
    "What's it SOUND like, baby?" - Ray Charles

  3. #43
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Rather like much in life, what on a given day may be the best thing since sliced bread, on another day is considered as much junk.

    I've lost count of how many times I've sold the greatest guitar I've ever owned.....

    Enjoy the trip.

    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  4. #44
    Les Paul Forum Member Skydogfan81's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneflowers View Post
    OK, I'll bite. For me, the DC reading is the #1 most important spec there is. But I'm in a different boat than most... allow me to explain.

    With very few exceptions I pretty much only acquire Wizz pickups nowadays. They ring truest to original PAFs to my ear (especially those made with vintage wire and/or vintage mags). For the 20+ sets of Wizzes I have, the wind pattern is perfect to my ear and that pattern remains consistent every time Alex winds a set of pickups. This is the exact same wind pattern BK used in his OTPG pups which to my ear were the absolute best. The wire, spacers, baseplates, magnets, polepieces, etc. are all exactly the same (or as close as humanly possible) in every Wizz set as well, so the only thing changing is the DC (mags change, but those can easily be swapped out). In seeking to clone the pups on my favorite bursts the only variable Alex has to worry about when winding is the DC. The Jimmy Page Set has an 8.9 in the neck while the Duane Allman Layla Set has a 6.9 in the neck. All else being equal, and acknowledging that 99% of those original tones were in the fingers, if I want to get my Skydog on, the 6.9 running through my Allman rig gets me much closer than the 8.9 running through the same rig. The Beano set, with a 7.8 is closer to the 'standard' and when played side by side these three neck pups are unique and each have different capabilities... all based primarily on that DC reading.

    Psychological and subjective? Perhaps, but isn't everything?
    Aleksander recommended that I get a Fillmore neck and a Hot 'Lanta bridge. I was thinking about getting his regular wind with A5's. Please let me know your thoughts.
    Get Something out of Everything!

  5. #45
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydogfan81 View Post
    Aleksander recommended that I get a Fillmore neck and a Hot 'Lanta bridge. I was thinking about getting his regular wind with A5's. Please let me know your thoughts.
    The Fillmore neck (6.97 A3) is really nice... being low wound it is quite articulate if not a little unforgiving... the 'Lanta bridge OTOH (8.70 A5) is far at the hot end of the spectrum so, to my ear, putting them together with A5s is something much more reminiscent of Pre '73 Jimmy Page than Duane Allman. I really love the Fillmore set as is (and have a set of those wound with old wire in my Aged Allman Sig) and while the 'Lanta stuff that's available doesn't really float my boat as much as the Fillmore/Layla stuff that's available Duane found something enlightening in them and who am I to argue with genius? Exactly what tone(s) are you chasing? Wizz has a couple other Sig sets in the making and there may be something closer if you can define exactly what you are after.
    Tone To The Bone!
    LP=[(CC*8)+(Sig*5)+(R9*2)+R8+R7+R6+(R4*2)+(50sT*2)+Stu D+LPX]+[(EpI*19)+(EsP/Ed*6)+(ToKi*3)+(Ba*3)+(Fe/Bu*2)+(ObG)+(CMS)]

  6. #46
    All Access/Backstage Pass DvnLesPaul's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    I'm pretty sold on the Throbaks right now, but, I've been here long enough to remember the Timbucker craze.

  7. #47
    Les Paul Forum Member latestarter's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post

    I've lost count of how many times I've sold the greatest guitar I've ever owned.....
    The truth right there....
    Otherwise known as Grant.

  8. #48

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by RocknRollShakeUp View Post
    All the one's mentioned above, and I'll add monty's pickups PAF's that are also highly rated, esp. for the "fat tele" type of vintage PAF tones.
    Pleased to see these get a mention. Matt (the owner) has done plenty of work on guitars for me and he's a pleasure to deal with.

    He's just posted on Instagram that today is 20% off using the BLACKFRIDAY code on the payment page. A great time to finally pick some up for my Les Paul.

  9. #49
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by DvnLesPaul View Post
    I'm pretty sold on the Throbaks right now, but, I've been here long enough to remember the Timbucker craze.
    The Timbuckers still work great for me.

  10. #50
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoommutt View Post
    The Timbuckers still work great for me.

    Same here......very good pups indeed.

  11. #51
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    When I studied EE, we never used DCR as a
    the measurement of an inductor. ('nother name for a coil)
    Only time DCR was considered, was to determine the insertion loss of a serial inductor.
    DCR is a static measurement.
    When a pickup is part of the whole guitar/amp/strings/fingers operating system,
    there is a whole lot more going on that you'll measure with an ohm-meter,
    as so many of the well-informed folks commenting on this thread have pointed out.
    I could wire a resistor of precisely (pick your favorite PAF resistance) into a guitar, it would measure perfectly,
    but the sound might be a bit of a disappointment.

  12. #52
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tube Doctor View Post
    When I studied EE, we never used DCR as a
    the measurement of an inductor. ('nother name for a coil)
    Only time DCR was considered, was to determine the insertion loss of a serial inductor.
    DCR is a static measurement.
    When a pickup is part of the whole guitar/amp/strings/fingers operating system,
    there is a whole lot more going on that you'll measure with an ohm-meter,
    as so many of the well-informed folks commenting on this thread have pointed out.
    I could wire a resistor of precisely (pick your favorite PAF resistance) into a guitar, it would measure perfectly,
    but the sound might be a bit of a disappointment.
    I studied EE too and I never measured in a lab the DCR of a coil either. All I needed to know id there was no output was if it was open. Yea DCR is a static measurement just like an A5 magnet. A5 is a static measurement but I won't use a paf unless it has A5 mags. Pafs from the 50s used A2,A3, A5. Foe instance A2 has a low, mellow output and not good for R&R. I would not know what magnet a pickup has unless someone told me or it was written on the box.

    "insertion loss of a seriel inductor"......lol! Keep blowing that smoke bro.

  13. #53

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by metropolis View Post
    Pleased to see these get a mention. Matt (the owner) has done plenty of work on guitars for me and he's a pleasure to deal with.

    He's just posted on Instagram that today is 20% off using the BLACKFRIDAY code on the payment page. A great time to finally pick some up for my Les Paul.
    I've got the Montys PAFs fitted now and they sound fantastic, I couldn't be happier. Really bright and articulate and some lovely harmonics being brought out. I honestly wasn't expecting this big a change from the Burstbuckers / Bareknuckles that were in here before but they're superb.

  14. #54

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    the two best pafs repros are ;
    1) rs/fralin true 60s
    and
    B) 2007 Dr. Vintage w/no covers.
    ( the reason these are the best is they are the ones i have for sale )
    funny how things like that work

  15. #55
    Les Paul Forum Member Dave P's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Learn how to roll your own like I did!
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  16. #56
    Les Paul Forum Member Skydogfan81's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    I recently swap out the A5's in my WB's for RC Short A2's and then RC UO A5's. I really like the UO A5's.
    Get Something out of Everything!

  17. #57
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    I studied EE too and I never measured in a lab the DCR of a coil either. All I needed to know id there was no output was if it was open. Yea DCR is a static measurement just like an A5 magnet. A5 is a static measurement but I won't use a paf unless it has A5 mags. Pafs from the 50s used A2,A3, A5. Foe instance A2 has a low, mellow output and not good for R&R. I would not know what magnet a pickup has unless someone told me or it was written on the box.

    "insertion loss of a seriel inductor"......lol! Keep blowing that smoke bro.
    What kind of study? A5 is not a static measurement. It is a specific ratio of metals used in an alloy of aluminium nickle and colbalt. The gauss strength varies depending upon charge, age and environmental variables.

    You have yet to explain how dcr measurements equal a definite tone or power.

    Whom is the smoke blower in this thread?
    The older I get, the better I was.

  18. #58
    Les Paul Forum Member latestarter's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    I see the Wizz store is closed until June? I wonder why?
    Otherwise known as Grant.

  19. #59
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by latestarter View Post
    I see the Wizz store is closed until June? I wonder why?
    Alex closes the store periodically to catch up on backorders... they are still available through his distributors and the shop will reopen at the end of the month (or sooner if he gets all current orders shipped out).
    Tone To The Bone!
    LP=[(CC*8)+(Sig*5)+(R9*2)+R8+R7+R6+(R4*2)+(50sT*2)+Stu D+LPX]+[(EpI*19)+(EsP/Ed*6)+(ToKi*3)+(Ba*3)+(Fe/Bu*2)+(ObG)+(CMS)]

  20. #60

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneflowers View Post
    OK, I'll bite. For me, the DC reading is the #1 most important spec there is. But I'm in a different boat than most... allow me to explain.

    With very few exceptions I pretty much only acquire Wizz pickups nowadays. They ring truest to original PAFs to my ear (especially those made with vintage wire and/or vintage mags). For the 20+ sets of Wizzes I have, the wind pattern is perfect to my ear and that pattern remains consistent every time Alex winds a set of pickups. This is the exact same wind pattern BK used in his OTPG pups which to my ear were the absolute best. The wire, spacers, baseplates, magnets, polepieces, etc. are all exactly the same (or as close as humanly possible) in every Wizz set as well, so the only thing changing is the DC (mags change, but those can easily be swapped out). In seeking to clone the pups on my favorite bursts the only variable Alex has to worry about when winding is the DC. The Jimmy Page Set has an 8.9 in the neck while the Duane Allman Layla Set has a 6.9 in the neck. All else being equal, and acknowledging that 99% of those original tones were in the fingers, if I want to get my Skydog on, the 6.9 running through my Allman rig gets me much closer than the 8.9 running through the same rig. The Beano set, with a 7.8 is closer to the 'standard' and when played side by side these three neck pups are unique and each have different capabilities... all based primarily on that DC reading.

    Psychological and subjective? Perhaps, but isn't everything?

    I'm curious... How the hell is jimmy's neck pickup so clear and strat-like (NO COIL TAPS) at that high of an output? And I can't find anything about a Wizz Jimmy Page set even existing... I'd love to know what the bridge reading is. I've been chasing the mid-70's middle position quack for too damn long

  21. #61

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    .

  22. #62
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Last edited by duaneflowers; 11-09-19 at 06:04 AM.
    Tone To The Bone!
    LP=[(CC*8)+(Sig*5)+(R9*2)+R8+R7+R6+(R4*2)+(50sT*2)+Stu D+LPX]+[(EpI*19)+(EsP/Ed*6)+(ToKi*3)+(Ba*3)+(Fe/Bu*2)+(ObG)+(CMS)]

  23. #63
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by KDunn99 View Post
    I'm curious... How the hell is jimmy's neck pickup so clear and strat-like (NO COIL TAPS) at that high of an output? And I can't find anything about a Wizz Jimmy Page set even existing... I'd love to know what the bridge reading is. I've been chasing the mid-70's middle position quack for too damn long
    The prototypes for pre- and post-72 Wizz Jimmy Page pups should be arriving at my house in a day or two... they will most likely go into production shortly after I've had a chance to install them and put them through their paces. Barring any last minute changes the bridge reading on the Pre72 set should be 8.9kΩ and the bridge reading on the Post72 set should be 7.9kΩ (poly wire has a different dynamic). If you're looking at Jimmy's mid-70s tone there were quite a few changes from day to day and the possible configurations were seemingly endless but I'd imagine his unique quack has something to do with the PE/POLY combination (which is also found in Greeny).
    Tone To The Bone!
    LP=[(CC*8)+(Sig*5)+(R9*2)+R8+R7+R6+(R4*2)+(50sT*2)+Stu D+LPX]+[(EpI*19)+(EsP/Ed*6)+(ToKi*3)+(Ba*3)+(Fe/Bu*2)+(ObG)+(CMS)]

  24. #64

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    I'll be waiting for some videos of both of those sets.
    So it looks like for Pre-72 get two plain enamel 8.9k's and for Post-72 get a plain enamel 8.9k in the neck and a poly wire 7.9k in the bridge.
    What magnets are they?

    Also, I tried switching my neck (7.5k A5) and bridge (8.3k A5) pickups (Both PE Wire) around to mimic the paf/t-top combo but all i got was a muddier neck and an icepicky bridge. I believe the middle quacked better than ever but I flipped them back around real fast cause i was having a hard time balancing them for volume
    Last edited by KDunn99; 11-09-19 at 11:19 AM.

  25. #65
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by KDunn99 View Post
    So it looks like for Pre-72 get two plain enamel 8.9k's and for Post-72 get a plain enamel 8.9k in the neck and a poly wire 7.9k in the bridge.
    What magnets are they?
    The necks are both 8.2kΩ PE... atm we are trying several different mags and combos of varying strength...
    Tone To The Bone!
    LP=[(CC*8)+(Sig*5)+(R9*2)+R8+R7+R6+(R4*2)+(50sT*2)+Stu D+LPX]+[(EpI*19)+(EsP/Ed*6)+(ToKi*3)+(Ba*3)+(Fe/Bu*2)+(ObG)+(CMS)]

  26. #66
    Les Paul Forum Member PixelBurst's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    For me itís Wizz and Throbak. Iíve played several guitars with real PAFs and I donít feel like Iím missing anything.

  27. #67

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by KDunn99 View Post
    I'm curious... How the hell is jimmy's neck pickup so clear and strat-like (NO COIL TAPS) at that high of an output? And I can't find anything about a Wizz Jimmy Page set even existing... I'd love to know what the bridge reading is. I've been chasing the mid-70's middle position quack for too damn long
    I think itís the amp, (big loud clean Marshall) dialed in somewhat on the trebly side of things, super thin slinky strings and Jimmyís use of the guitarís tone and volume controls more so than anything special about the neck pickup. (But, regardless of the year or Zepp tour (Ď69-Ď80), the neck pickup of his #1 LP is consistently sweet sounding!)

    So, yeah, maybe 15% magic neck pickup and 20% amp and then 105% Jimmy Page...I guess the chase continues for us all...!

  28. #68
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    This is a post from Terry McInturff on TGP regarding Page:

    When I had the fun opportunity to play Jimmy Page's 1999 tour guitars (Black Crowes tour) in order to acquaint myself prior to building him a guitar, I did notice a couple of things that gave me a little insight into his sound (and this has nothing to do with "sloppy").


    The guitars included the two iconic "Led Zeppelin" old Les Pauls, and I paid more attention to these since they were the main guitars.


    The frets were wide and very low; the strings (9-42) were set down very low as well. In addition, he uses a very thin pick (can't recall the brand but his tech begged me to find more as they were no longer available) that wasn't celluloid, rather nylon and white semi-translucent.


    When the guitars were played with a regular Fender tortoise shell pick, the strings would rather easily buzz at every fret. However when played with Jimmy's choice of pick, that sort of "scribby" response happened. Hammer ons/pull offs were a breeze, and overall it became easier for me to understand how the guitars responded to the pick attack.


    The guitars weren't setup in a way that would be ideal for a very legato, sustainy style ala Carlos Santana, but it was ideal for the more staccato approach that we know and love from JP.

    I don't think the pickups in his guitar, the neck and both bridges, really ever stood out to me. The neck sounds bright, articulate, balanced in line with the more common "PAF" sound IMO. I mean, the first thing the youtubers need to do to cop his tone is stop playing with too much damn overdrive/distortion, lol.

  29. #69
    Les Paul Forum Member musekatcher's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by folgers_is_evil View Post
    my 2 cents piece of advice:
    First try to find the sweet spot on your current pick-up. In some case it might work and save you 400 bucks.
    Correct - you need to at least know how to find the sweet spot before switching pickups - even if you hate the best that set can provide. Otherwise, you'll spend money on some pickups, and likely be disappointed when you can't get their glory tone.

    And Folgers is very evil ;)

  30. #70
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    JP definitely practiced/practices 'the lost art of tone control' and after ofc getting his pups dialed in and the bass on his amps set to virtually zero he could go from clear to raunchy with a flick of the wrist... being able to split the coils in both pups also allowed for that chimey neck when needed even with an overly hot neck pup... and, ofc, he's Jimmy... so there's that...
    Tone To The Bone!
    LP=[(CC*8)+(Sig*5)+(R9*2)+R8+R7+R6+(R4*2)+(50sT*2)+Stu D+LPX]+[(EpI*19)+(EsP/Ed*6)+(ToKi*3)+(Ba*3)+(Fe/Bu*2)+(ObG)+(CMS)]

  31. #71
    Les Paul Forum Member au_rick's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    "99% of those original tones were in the fingers"

    If the above were true, why do so many people spend so much time, effort, and money chasing pickups instead of simply practising their technique ?

    Tone is 100% hardware, the rest is nuance, feeling, and emotion
    Any facts stated above questionable, and opinions are not necessarily to be taken seriously

  32. #72
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by au_rick View Post


    Tone is 100% hardware, the rest is nuance, feeling, and emotion
    You got it over under sideways down, mate. Last time I saw Richard Betts with the Allmans, he used a 50's Mary Kaye Strat all night and sounded like the Dicky Betts we all love so much. I've seen Johnny Winter with a Glazer, Leslie West with a bunch of notagibsonjr mongrels, Ronnie Montrose with a Tele, Joe Bonamassa with a menangery of guitars and many more. Guitarist I followed for decades and I can identify their tone from a few notes.

    Different guitars, amps everything, still sound the same. I have a tone. I also have a large collection of guitars, amps, fx and stuff to sound different, yet everyone tells me they can tell it's my tone.

    The gear supplies the nuance, my decades of playing, ability to use emotion and feeling through my touch has the single greatest effect on tone. Hendrix used a Flying V and Fender and Sunn amps, yet very few, very, very few can tell the difference. Purple haze was a flipped over Tele!

    Yes educated ears, with careful listening hear and discern the nuance and fine details that gear may present, despite the overpowering influence of touch and technique upon tone. BUT, big but here and one that gets lost all to often, ....
    gear don't make the music, gear don't make the musician, gear enables a musician to make music.

    In this age of digital wonders, where a mere mouse click, keystroke or button pushed can supply an exact, flawless clone of your favorite guitar tonemeister is common simply cannot happen if you don't have the chops!

    How many times have you seen a "Hero in a Box" effect demo'd by a competent guitarist with a fluid command of the Hero's technique, just nail the desired tone, EXACT!!!!
    OMG! great an easy way to get that tone. Then you see all the following youtube vids. Deluded hacks with no real knowledge or facility in the Hero's technique at all. They may be good players in other styles, most seem to be this generic shredder zippity doodley do da crapola that bears no relationship to the targeted style or they just suck. Crappy ass wanabes that really should not be making video's, they should be studying. But, they graphically demonstrate that unless you have Jimi chops you wont get Jimi tone plugging into a Jimi box.
    It ain't the gear, it's the player.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  33. #73

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneflowers View Post
    JP definitely practiced/practices 'the lost art of tone control' and after ofc getting his pups dialed in and the bass on his amps set to virtually zero he could go from clear to raunchy with a flick of the wrist... being able to split the coils in both pups also allowed for that chimey neck when needed even with an overly hot neck pup... and, ofc, he's Jimmy... so there's that...
    Jimmy didnt have any push/pulls or pickguard buttons on any of his guitars until The Firm. He was somehow getting that almost single coil clarity out of a very hot PAF, which according to Tim Mills at BareKnuckle who got to examine Jimmy's Number One, read 8.97k. My neck pickup is an A5 7.5k and i still cant get the clarity he has...
    Last edited by KDunn99; 11-13-19 at 03:27 PM.

  34. #74

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by au_rick View Post
    "99% of those original tones were in the fingers"

    If the above were true, why do so many people spend so much time, effort, and money chasing pickups instead of simply practising their technique ?

    Tone is 100% hardware, the rest is nuance, feeling, and emotion
    So many people spend so much time, effort and money chasing pickups instead of "simply" practicing their technique because it is easier to be a follower than to be a leader. "Simply" is the wrong word. It takes a huge amount of time and effort to find your unique and defining sound. Moreover, your unique sound depends on the group you're playing with. How do those boutique pickups sound with a snare drum and vocals?

    Also, this info about Jimmy Page's neck pickup and the way his guitar was set-up is really interesting stuff!

  35. #75

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    You got it over under sideways down, mate. Last time I saw Richard Betts with the Allmans, he used a 50's Mary Kaye Strat all night and sounded like the Dicky Betts we all love so much. I've seen Johnny Winter with a Glazer, Leslie West with a bunch of notagibsonjr mongrels, Ronnie Montrose with a Tele, Joe Bonamassa with a menangery of guitars and many more. Guitarist I followed for decades and I can identify their tone from a few notes.

    Different guitars, amps everything, still sound the same. I have a tone. I also have a large collection of guitars, amps, fx and stuff to sound different, yet everyone tells me they can tell it's my tone.

    The gear supplies the nuance, my decades of playing, ability to use emotion and feeling through my touch has the single greatest effect on tone. Hendrix used a Flying V and Fender and Sunn amps, yet very few, very, very few can tell the difference. Purple haze was a flipped over Tele!

    Yes educated ears, with careful listening hear and discern the nuance and fine details that gear may present, despite the overpowering influence of touch and technique upon tone. BUT, big but here and one that gets lost all to often, ....
    gear don't make the music, gear don't make the musician, gear enables a musician to make music.

    In this age of digital wonders, where a mere mouse click, keystroke or button pushed can supply an exact, flawless clone of your favorite guitar tonemeister is common simply cannot happen if you don't have the chops!

    How many times have you seen a "Hero in a Box" effect demo'd by a competent guitarist with a fluid command of the Hero's technique, just nail the desired tone, EXACT!!!!
    OMG! great an easy way to get that tone. Then you see all the following youtube vids. Deluded hacks with no real knowledge or facility in the Hero's technique at all. They may be good players in other styles, most seem to be this generic shredder zippity doodley do da crapola that bears no relationship to the targeted style or they just suck. Crappy ass wanabes that really should not be making video's, they should be studying. But, they graphically demonstrate that unless you have Jimi chops you wont get Jimi tone plugging into a Jimi box.
    It ain't the gear, it's the player.
    Mic drop...

  36. #76

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Just to add another brand I haven't seen mentioned is Lollar pickups. I just bought an older standard with Lollar Imperials fitted (supposedly the hotter 'high wind' ones) and they're very nice. The original pots are in which are 300k so it's not quite got the top end of my main Standard with Montys, and I suspect that's taming some of the extra gain too but they are a nice US made set. My guitar repair guy (Ronnie Wood's guitar tech) stocks them and raves about them.

  37. #77

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by KDunn99 View Post
    Jimmy didnt have any push/pulls or pickguard buttons on any of his guitars until The Firm. He was somehow getting that almost single coil clarity out of a very hot PAF, which according to Tim Mills at BareKnuckle who got to examine Jimmy's Number One, read 8.97k. My neck pickup is an A5 7.5k and i still cant get the clarity he has...
    Iím guessing that he rolled the volume/tone down no?

    With that 50s style wiring the bridge pickup tames dramatically as you roll it down past 9 and less , without losing highs. Not to mention the thinning effect of the fullness/fatness of the tone of the pickup that is obtained as the tone knob is rolled off toward half way, again with no muffling effect.

    With my R7 I get the most clarity and single coil like tone with the volume on 5-8 and tone at 5-7, also depending on how much Iím cranking the amps.

    Thatís my surmise anyway.

  38. #78

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    I dont buy into Jimmy using his tone knobs mainly because when he's about to go for a solo (you see it a lot in Earls Court '75, take a look before the solos on Sick Again and OTHAFA), you see him reach for the controls and quickly turn all 4 knobs all the way up. Before Whole Lotta Love at Earls Court, he puts the LP in the middle position and turns everything to 10 and plays away.

  39. #79
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by KDunn99 View Post
    Jimmy didnt have any push/pulls or pickguard buttons on any of his guitars until The Firm. He was somehow getting that almost single coil clarity out of a very hot PAF, which according to Tim Mills at BareKnuckle who got to examine Jimmy's Number One, read 8.97k. My neck pickup is an A5 7.5k and i still cant get the clarity he has...
    That contradicts everything I have seen, read, heard, or viewed regarding Page's use of push/pull pots on his vintage Les Pauls during his time with Led Zeppelin. And I don't buy the "very hot PAF" theory. I cant imagine an instance where an overwound, or "very hot PAF" would produce "that almost single coil clarity." An overwound PAF will tend to sound very fat, thick, compressed, and emphasize the mi-range. Just the opposite of the thin out-of-phase (OOP) sound, or single coil clarity.

    And it's common knowledge that Page had to replace the double-white PAF in the bridge position on his No. 1 Les Paul some time in 1971-1972 (I believe in Australia?). He replaced that vintage PAF with a double-black Gibson "T-top" IIRC. As a result of Gibson procuring dependable and more precise pickup winding machines in the mid-1960s, later patent-number and T-top humbucking pickups almost always measure in the
    7.5 k-Ohm range.

    I don't know about you, but I can clearly discern the out-of-phase sound in many of his Led Zeppelin recordings, both live and studio, beginning with Led Zeppelin III. Also, I've seen Led Zeppelin in concert three times, 1972, 1973, 1975. I am almost certain his Les Pauls had the modification during this time frame.

    Just listen to his recordings and albums with Led Zeppelin beginning with Led Zeppelin III (1970)....

    ......the out-of-phase sound is featured on many LZ songs from the 3rd album on.

    Page has said many times that he was very fond of the OOP sound Peter Green achieved with his revered 1959 Les Paul, so he had his Les Pauls modified while in Led Zeppelin.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  40. #80

    Re: PAF Alternatives?

    Guys like Tim Mills who have handled the guitar can confirm the high output neck pickup, and on the push/pulls during Zep, I'm going to quote Ed A from another thread,
    "Stompbox, with all due respect, there is absolutely no way I would miss him popping the push pull, whether I was in the front row or not. Mainly because I would have heard it. That is why I was so surprised when I saw and heard him use it during the Black Crowes tour. You couldnt miss it, not only could you see him yank it, but you could hear it go out of phase. Listen to the Black Crowes CD during either the Lemon Song or You Shook Me jams (I cant remember which one, maybe both). You can clearly hear the guitar go way out of phase. I have never seen OR heard him do that prior to that tour with that guitar. And as I said Ive been to every tour since '72 and have bootlegs from every tour since the very beginning...."

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