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PAF Alternatives?

Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Messages
93
So I recently had the great fortune of playing an original 59 burst with PAFs. After it was forcefully removed from my hands I decided that I needed a pair of PAF's in my life. Unfortunately original PAF's are way out of my budget so I would love to know what pickups you all would recommend? I am looking for whatever is closest to the sound of a PAF. I would preferably like to pay no more than $200 per pickup but am open to all suggestions. So let's see what ya got!?!
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Almost every pickup maker has a paf type, from $70 Duncan 59's up to pricey clones wound on original winding machines and materials with great attention to the smallest detail, like Jon's extremely authentic ThroBak offerings.

It's worth noting that paf's are variable in tone and build spec so you'll want to do some research. Nothing beats clear communication with the winder, as they can insure you get what you want.

You are about to be flooded with everyone's idea of the right choice, or their choice and specs like magnets etc..., it can be overwhelming. Good luck on your search.
 

c_wester

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2002
Messages
2,116
May I take a stab at this.

My experience is that its mostly the wood you hear.
Those guitars I have or have had that sounded really good kinda did not care that much about the pickups.
Sure they shaded the sound in different ways.

But they din not add magic or take it away.

I would search for a guitar that sounds good real good instead of trying to make one you may not like the sound of work with new pickups.
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
..............................................................Why did you give it back?

.......................................................That was just plain silly!

You could have stopped this search bidness right in it's tracks.

........................................................But NOOOOOO!

................................You had to hand it back!

...............................NOW I'M ANGRY!
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
May I take a stab at this.

My experience is that its mostly the wood you hear.
Those guitars I have or have had that sounded really good kinda did not care that much about the pickups.
Sure they shaded the sound in different ways.

But they din not add magic or take it away.

I would search for a guitar that sounds good real good instead of trying to make one you may not like the sound of work with new pickups.

While pickups won't change the primary tone, (paf's on an epi won't make it sound like a Burst), they certainly can have a profound effect on secondary tone. Do you only use stock pickups? I've been happy enough with some but on others the sonic results of upgraded pickups made a noticeable difference for the better. Too noticeable to shrug off as mere shading the tone a little bit. The right pickups can push a good guitar into a great guitar for some by supplying missing tones or reducing objectionable tones or both. I find feel can change as compression, attack and bloom change.
 

Thundermtn

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
548
What did you hear from the p/up that defined the PAF tone to you? Hollow, bright, clear, crisp grit? With so many flavors of them it's kind of hard to nail them down. I ran SD Pearly Gates for sixteen years, then I finally was able to play a '60. My PG's weren't that close. The neck was ok and i liked how it sounded in that guitar, but the bridge wasn't even close in my guitar and just sounded bad in comparison.

Check out as many as you can in person but youtube will be better for listening to them. Some guys like Doug & Pat do an apples to apples comparison with real PAF's with not much noise in the signal chain, and i was surprised at how different the takes were, and that i didn't think the most accurately constructed ones were my ears favorites for the tone I heard from 1 set of PAF's I played. Most players in person they don't really like a real sounding PAF in modern setups. They want more this or that from the p/up and in short order it's not a PAF anymore.
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
So I recently had the great fortune of playing an original 59 burst with PAFs. After it was forcefully removed from my hands I decided that I needed a pair of PAF's in my life. Unfortunately original PAF's are way out of my budget so I would love to know what pickups you all would recommend? I am looking for whatever is closest to the sound of a PAF. I would preferably like to pay no more than $200 per pickup but am open to all suggestions. So let's see what ya got!?!

It's a pity you didn't have a meter with you to measure the DC resistance of both humbuckers. All ya gotta fo is measure the resistance on the cord plug.
 

Mars Hall

Active member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
1,829
I recently had a similar experience. In my case, I witnessed the "before and after" affects of installing "real" PAF's in a 69 GT. The GT is a Deluxe with one piece body and neck that had been routed for Pat# T-tops. The difference was quite remarkable and magical even. The swap produced a clarity and woody-ness that was so pleasing it caused me to go off the deep end and by a set of my own. I'm by no means a humbucker expert. In my limited experience, I've played different PAF variants that include, Throbak, Seymour Duncan, Dimarzio and several of Gibson's own attempt to recapture that glory. In my limited opimion, nothing quite gives the same clarity as the originals. The closest would be the DT-102's wound with NOS wire by Throbak. If you are willing to go $400 for a set, the extra "stretch" for Throbaks will be well worth the effort.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Messages
93
It's a pity you didn't have a meter with you to measure the DC resistance of both humbuckers. All ya gotta fo is measure the resistance on the cord plug.

Are the meters very expensive? I will be back at my friends collection next month and might invest in one in the off chance he'll bring the burst out again. I think you're right, measuring them would be a great idea!
 

Thundermtn

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
548
I bet most burst owners will be able to just tell you what they read.

A meter is a few bucks, they should be a part of anyone's kit that is planning on swapping p/ups.

Spending a bunch on brand x is ok if you have plenty of time and money, your ear is what to trust though. I spent $100 a have a humbucker that sounds so close to a real PAF in my Classic that it would be hard to match closer. I might be able to get closer, i might also spend more and be a flavor that's not as close or I don't like as much. I'd keep an eye out in the classifieds for stuff at not top dollar once you have some narrowed down to a few you want to listen to in your individual guitar.

Please read this as a sort of primer on PAF's, the real ones come in a bunch of flavors just due to random nature of the winds and magnets, magnets strength of field, etc....

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/seymour-w-duncans-interview-with-seth-lover
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Messages
93
Thank you to everyone who has replied so far! I feel like it might help if I tell you what Les Paul I am going to put the "PAF" clones in. It is a 1958 custom shop reissue. Currently it is 100% stock. The guitar is a fantastic instrument all around and honestly the factory pickups sound very nice... they just aren't PAFs by any means (no surprise there lol). I like the idea of the ThroBak pickups however they are a little out of my price range at the moment. Does anyone have a pair of ThroBaks? Are they worth the money? I might save up for those if I can't find anything similar, or I'll look for a used pair.

Also, to clarify what I am looking for in terms of sound... definitely something on the brighter and hotter side. I really loved the cleans on the original PAFs I played. No other LP I've played has sounded like that clean. Dare I say it almost had the pop and bell like tone of a strat when fingerpicking and playing gently. That probably has to do with how well the wood resonates and the age, as well as the pickups. On the contrary, as soon as you put some gain on it... my god it was angry. After playing that guitar I'm starting to understand why the cost as much as they do.
:hmm
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Messages
93
I bet most burst owners will be able to just tell you what they read.

A meter is a few bucks, they should be a part of anyone's kit that is planning on swapping p/ups.

Spending a bunch on brand x is ok if you have plenty of time and money, your ear is what to trust though. I spent $100 a have a humbucker that sounds so close to a real PAF in my Classic that it would be hard to match closer. I might be able to get closer, i might also spend more and be a flavor that's not as close or I don't like as much. I'd keep an eye out in the classifieds for stuff at not top dollar once you have some narrowed down to a few you want to listen to in your individual guitar.

Please read this as a sort of primer on PAF's, the real ones come in a bunch of flavors just due to random nature of the winds and magnets, magnets strength of field, etc....

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/seymour-w-duncans-interview-with-seth-lover

Thanks for the info! I just ordered a meter off of amazon and am excited to put it to use. As you mentioned I really like this idea because I think it will help me get the right pick ups to begin with instead of going through a bunch of options and wasting time and money until I find what I like.
 

duaneflowers

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,522
Thanks for the info! I just ordered a meter off of amazon and am excited to put it to use. As you mentioned I really like this idea because I think it will help me get the right pick ups to begin with instead of going through a bunch of options and wasting time and money until I find what I like.

Andy Brauer, guitar tech for too many guitar greats to name, has recently become enamored with Wizz Pickups... and for good reason, they are simply the best PAF clones I have had the pleasure to play and I recommend them wholeheartedly.

Here's a shot (and quote) of Al Di Meola enjoying his new Wizzes:

45687363_905537502969926_2955403988930920448_n.jpg

“When I tried Wizz pickups, it made me want to play electric guitar again” - Al Di Meola
 

renderit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
Thank you to everyone who has replied so far! I feel like it might help if I tell you what Les Paul I am going to put the "PAF" clones in. It is a 1958 custom shop reissue. Currently it is 100% stock. The guitar is a fantastic instrument all around and honestly the factory pickups sound very nice... they just aren't PAFs by any means (no surprise there lol). I like the idea of the ThroBak pickups however they are a little out of my price range at the moment. Does anyone have a pair of ThroBaks? Are they worth the money? I might save up for those if I can't find anything similar, or I'll look for a used pair.

Also, to clarify what I am looking for in terms of sound... definitely something on the brighter and hotter side. I really loved the cleans on the original PAFs I played. No other LP I've played has sounded like that clean. Dare I say it almost had the pop and bell like tone of a strat when fingerpicking and playing gently. That probably has to do with how well the wood resonates and the age, as well as the pickups. On the contrary, as soon as you put some gain on it... my god it was angry. After playing that guitar I'm starting to understand why the cost as much as they do.
:hmm

I have many sets of Thrōbaks and many sets of Wizz's. They are both outstanding. And yes, they are BOTH worth the money. Jon at Thrōbak makes it very easy on you. You can give him a call and tell him the details and he will hook you up with a good choice for your guitar. The guy from Wizz is the same but you can talk to him on Facebook or emails.

You are not going wrong with either, and there are about 400 other choices as well. I think those two usually come out on the top of the recommendations though. A close second is OX4. For less expensive there is Seymor Duncan.
 

RevPearly

Active member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,137
Hi Guys, I've been away for awhile but just noticed one of my most passionate subjects: PAF tone. One word of advice I would like to mention is that whatever pickup you put into a guitar, there is a "sweet spot" for that pickup and guitar (and string combination) that can change the tone. If you take a guitar with "muddy" sounding pickups it might be that simple adjustments in the pickup height relative to the strings can open up a whole spectrum of tones and overtones that are missing due to the amount of pull of the magnets on the strings and how long the strings vibrate and transition to "bloom". This is not to say that every pickup can be made to sound exactly what we want to hear but that vast improvements can be made just by adjusting what you already have. A couple of guys on this forum are skilled in finding the "sweet spots" and below is a link to a well written "how to" that everyone should try. I have a couple of Les Pauls that the magic work has been done on and I refuse to budge the adjustments because they just sound so good. Check the link out below and thanks to "Roadrunner" for making the process make sense.


Adjusting Pickups: The "Sweet Spot" with Soundclips
 

Big Al

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Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
I don't care what meter you use, it tells you nothing about tone, only resistance which is not an output measurement or an indication of tone. What is the tone of a 7.65K pickup? You could have a dozen with the same resistance reading and have 12 different sounding pickups with variable outputs.

TALK TO JON AT THROBAK!
 

brandtkronholm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,737
I've got PAFs in my 1995 R9. I really liked the original '57 Classics that it came with but, you know, PAFs... I've found that the PAFs are quirkier and more dynamic.

I'm with Big Al. While the wood is important, swapping out the pickups can have a profound impact on your sound. I dropped some Seymore Duncans (Jazz=neck; JB=bridge) into a 1986 LP and the tone instantly became amazing.

To add my two cents Big Al's thoughts, also consider the wiring and the pots. I've rewired my 1995 R9 to "50s" wiring with wax-n-paper (bumblebees made by Luxe) and found that it has expanded the sonic range of the sound; it's brighter and lows are lower. I intentionally kept the original linear taper pots because I like them.

If the PAFs you experienced in the 1959 Les Paul are original to the guitar, then it is likely (but anything is possible) that they have an ohm reading of 7.9 - 8.4 (+/-). Earlier PAFs tend to be a bit "cooler" and PAFs from 1961/62 and the PAT# tend to be "coolest" with readings consistently around 7.5. Speaking very broadly, the hotter PAFs can be compressed and less sparkly than the cooler PAFs. (Generalizations are always misleading. :) )
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
I don't care what meter you use, it tells you nothing about tone, only resistance which is not an output measurement or an indication of tone. What is the tone of a 7.65K pickup? You could have a dozen with the same resistance reading and have 12 different sounding pickups with variable outputs.

TALK TO JON AT THROBAK!

You should not keep saying that. Pafs all have low DCR. Go measure the DCR of any throbak or Seymour Duncan paf. Go measure any 50s Gibson paf. You will find they have low DCR. Not 99 out of a hundred but a hundred out of a hundred will have low DCR.
Nobody is going to buy a paf that measures 10ko.
 
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