2018 Soft Wood?

Tommy Tourbus · Oct 31, 2018

So I stripped all parts off my 2018 R9 to polish and buff the VOS out, and when I put it back together, most of the tuner screw holes were stripped. As in the screws just kept turning and wouldn't tighten. Had to plug them with the ends of some tooth picks and glue to get the screws to take again. Also noticed some wood build up occurred around the holes when I removed the screws, as if some of the wood came up with the scews when I unscrewed and removed them. First time I've experienced this on a guitar, usually screw holes stay solid and go back in tight. Thoughts of what's going on here? Is it soft wood? It was just at the headstock btw, the pickguard, jack, and control cavity plate screw holes remained good

P.Walker · Oct 31, 2018

Tommy Tourbus said:
So I stripped all parts off my 2018 R9 to polish and buff the VOS out, and when I put it back together, most of the tuner screw holes were stripped. As in the screws just kept turning and wouldn't tighten. Had to plug them with the ends of some tooth picks and glue to get the screws to take again. Also noticed some wood build up occurred around the holes when I removed the screws, as if some of the wood came up with the scews when I unscrewed and removed them. First time I've experienced this on a guitar, usually screw holes stay solid and go back in tight. Thoughts of what's going on here? Is it soft wood? It was just at the headstock btw, the pickguard, jack, and control cavity plate screw holes remained good

Provided you haven't stripped them by your own doing, it's just the grain/strength of the wood in that region I guess.

I had a 65 reissue strat that did that at the butt end of the strap button. Not the best place for something like that to happen; but end grain so yada yada.

Toothpick and titebond (as you did) and move along.

Is the truss rod cavity okay? That is the real killer. Soft wood is a disaster around that anchor area.

marshall1987 · Oct 31, 2018

The push for lighter weight Les Pauls has a direct bearing on the density and strength of the mahogany wood. I never understood the desire for Les Pauls in the sub 8.5 pound range. Heavier mahogany will usually be stronger than the light stuff.

I would advise proceeding with caution before you start dismantling your guitars. If you insist on doing so, make sure you identify the location of each screw so that they are reused in the same hole they originally came from.

J.D. · Oct 31, 2018

Unfortunately it is not uncommon with this lightweight Fiji-sourced wood.

Zentar · Nov 1, 2018

How to reinstall a screw(wood or metal):

Place screw in hole. Rotate in revers 1/4 turn. You will feel the screw drop down into the origonal grooves. Then tighten in the screw. This method avoids cutting a second row of grooves which strips out the hole.

Uncle Gary · Nov 1, 2018

Zentar said:
How to reinstall a screw(wood or metal):

Place screw in hole. Rotate in reverse 1/4 turn. You will feel the screw drop down into the original grooves. Then tighten in the screw. This method avoids cutting a second row of grooves which strips out the hole.

This right here. If you DO happen to strip one of the tiny screws, just coat the screw with Tite Bond then reassemble. When dry, the glue will form new threads, but won't stick to the metal screw. Been doing this for many years.

JPP-1 · Nov 1, 2018

J.D. said:
Unfortunately it is not uncommon with this lightweight Fiji-sourced wood.

Really, is this just typical regurgitated fake news or do you have some evidence that an 80 degree day in Fiji effects the growth of Swietenia macrophylla differently than an 80 degree day in Honduras.

Maybe the OP could’ve exercised more care removing the tuners but let’s blame the wood. Lol, I’ve never have had a problem removing tuners from a Les Paul. When I’m careless I’ve had lots of problems regardless of the woods strengh.

I guess vintage Les Pauls don’t suffer from stripped screws, dings, wear or broken headstocks like those horrible soft Fiji wood Les Pauls. Well at least they sound the same.

John550 · Nov 1, 2018

J.D. · Nov 2, 2018

This is plantation-grown wood grown quickly and harvested on a schedule. It's often relatively pale colored, lightweight and soft due to how it is grown.

I have personally seen this same issue with tuner screws, and have also seen a fair amount of truss rod washers sinking into the neck wood.

marshall1987 · Nov 2, 2018

There is a lot more than ambient temperature that can affect the properties of tree species in different parts of the world. Even if the same tree species is plantation grown, there can be significant differences. :dang

First you have differences in soil chemistry including pH, nitrogen, minerals, moisture content, microorganisms, etc. Secondly there are differences with the latitude, atmospheric CO2 levels, topography, average number of cloudy days vs. sunny days. Don't forget the impact of insects, birds, fungus, etc.

Fiji being an island in the Pacific Ocean is subject to more tropical storms, salt in the atmosphere, high winds, and possibly less rainfall.

Did I leave anything out?

P.Walker · Nov 2, 2018

J.D. said:
This is plantation-grown wood grown quickly and harvested on a schedule. It's often relatively pale colored, lightweight and soft due to how it is grown.

I have personally seen this same issue with tuner screws, and have also seen a fair amount of truss rod washers sinking into the neck wood.

Truss rod washers sinking into the wood is nothing new either; it's evident in the Paul Kossoff burst photos. In fact it's related to a different matter: the neck wood bowing and the compression design of the rod. This is more or less what JPP-1 is alluding to.

deytookerjaabs · Nov 2, 2018

It's not my personal observation as I wouldn't know but I've read a few times in the past owners of 50's models commenting on how easily the backs/edges of some of their reissues get dinged up citing the wood on the 50's guitars seems harder at the edges.

JPP-1 · Nov 2, 2018

marshall1987 said:
There is a lot more than ambient temperature that can affect the properties of tree species in different parts of the world. Even if the same tree species is plantation grown, there can be significant differences. :dang

First you have differences in soil chemistry including pH, nitrogen, minerals, moisture content, microorganisms, etc. Secondly there are differences with the latitude, atmospheric CO2 levels, topography, average number of cloudy days vs. sunny days. Don't forget the impact of insects, birds, fungus, etc.

Fiji being an island in the Pacific Ocean is subject to more tropical storms, salt in the atmosphere, high winds, and possibly less rainfall.

Did I leave anything out?

Just about everything you mention can vary wherever a tree is grown be it central and South America or an island in the South Pacific.

What you didn’t provide is any factual data that proves that these variations are significant enough to negatively affect and even alter a tree species and the wood harvested.

Maybe quickly grown wood sounds better because it is lighter weight and less dense giving it those harmonic properties we cherish in a great Les Paul. I guess no one kept records of the lat, long, age and date of the trees that produced that magic wood for vintage Gibsons. Were all those trees harvested in the same square mile on the same side of the hill? Because they all have magic vintage properties. Maybe faster growing trees in the wild produce the lighter weight wood Gibson preferred in the 50s. As opposed to Norlin who a decade later found some of the most dense and heavy mahogany ever. Maybe Norlin found a stack of super old growth extra dense wood.

In a world of alternative facts and fake news I try to stay away from making absolute statements unless I have some factual data to back it up. Empirically, the wood in my TH59 Les Paul does not feel soft. I’ve had no problems with screws removing tuners etc. but beyond that I have no factual data to prove that Fijian big leaf mahogany is harder or softer than big leaf mahogany grown elsewhere. Maybe all lighter weight less dense mahogany is softer than heavier mahogany, I have no idea, but like I said before, I have little patience for statements issued as fact without a scintilla of objective measurable supporting data.

J.D. · Nov 2, 2018

People are only stating their observations. Nobody owes you an explanation.

Hamerfan · Nov 2, 2018

An old man in the austrian alpes told used to walk around in the mountains to discover the best spruce trees. He told me its hard to get only those trees out of the woods and it costs him alot of money. But he only used the first 2 meters above the ground of every tree he got. The rest of the tree is too soft for serious work, he said. Its only good for heating or cheap furniture, he said.
So now think: Which parts of a precious mahogony tree the OP might got and how many guitars were built of inferior parts of a tree just because its 'precious mahaogany' from overseas.

El Gringo · Nov 2, 2018

Gibson has been Kiln drying wood for years to extract out any and all moisture and while I am not arguing anyone's belief about soft wood with the Fuji Mahogany I am at a loss to understand this issue ? As I have a 2014 R9 and it seems to me to be hard as a rock and very solid and has great and very resonant and vibrates very easily and has super tone . I should also add that it has the gloss finish .

Hamerfan · Nov 2, 2018

El Gringo said:
Gibson has been Kiln drying wood for years to extract out any and all moisture and while I am not arguing anyone's belief about soft wood with the Fuji Mahogany I am at a loss to understand this issue ? As I have a 2014 R9 and it seems to me to be hard as a rock and very solid and has great and very resonant and vibrates very easily and has super tone . I should also add that it has the gloss finish .

Maybe yours got wood from the better parts of the tree?

Tommy Tourbus · Nov 2, 2018

"careless removing the screws" LOL, that's a laugh! I used a screwdriver and turned the screws counter clockwise until they were out. You know, the way you're supposed too

BTW - I've removed and reinstalled the tuners and other parts from many other guitars, and this is the first time I've experienced this

garywright · Nov 2, 2018

oh yeah ..there's some soft wood out there these days ..don't believe it ..go to GC and see what happens with a light pressure of a thumbnail ( kidding dont really mar their guitars )

El Gringo · Nov 2, 2018

garywright said:
oh yeah ..there's some soft wood out there these days ..don't believe it ..go to GC and see what happens with a light pressure of a thumbnail ( kidding dont really mar their guitars )

I am not the least surprised at what goes on at GC .

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