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Peter Green Out Of Phase tone - reversal or flip?

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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8,349
Peter’s original neck pickup kept cutting out so someone at the shop where he bought it in London rewound it with poly wire and flipped the magnet. I’ve heard that the bobbins were wound in reverse and between that and the magnet is what created that sound. I guess we’d have to check with Kurt in Metallica since he owns the guitar now. He’s a big guitar nerd as well so I bet he knows exactly... someone here may know as it changed hands a couple of times over the last 10-12 years.
 

Ramon Goose

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Nov 30, 2015
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41
Peter’s original neck pickup kept cutting out so someone at the shop where he bought it in London rewound it with poly wire and flipped the magnet. I’ve heard that the bobbins were wound in reverse and between that and the magnet is what created that sound. I guess we’d have to check with Kurt in Metallica since he owns the guitar now. He’s a big guitar nerd as well so I bet he knows exactly... someone here may know as it changed hands a couple of times over the last 10-12 years.

Ah that's interesting - yes I have both types but you say it needs a magnet flip and a reverse wind?
Yes I m sure someone on the forum knows very well!
 

Tim

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Jul 15, 2001
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1,860
I believe if you reverse wind the coils and swap magnet polarity the signal it generates would still be in phase with the other pickup's signal and you would have the same sound as a normal Les Paul in the middle position. To make the two signals from the two pickups out of phase with each other you have to do one but not the other.
 

duaneflowers

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Aug 13, 2013
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To make the two signals from the two pickups out of phase with each other you have to do one but not the other.

This is true... and FWIW either way sounds exactly the same to my ear.
 

hotblack59

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Jun 30, 2016
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This is true... and FWIW either way sounds exactly the same to my ear.
Certainly on their own an out of phase pup will sound very much the same, however when in the middle position they will fight where both volume pots are set the same and all the bass falls away - thin and nasally I would describe it as. I have a ‘59 355 mono that does this and the magnets on the bridge pup are flipped to what is “normal”. Can’t speak to the coil winding without pulling it apart, which won’t happen unless it needs to. Running the volumes offset - one you get used it - brings some joy with some great sounds and crunch we couldn’t get on the 60 “normal” wired mono that we compared it to - the 59 smoked it 😊
 

Zentar

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Oct 1, 2011
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Certainly on their own an out of phase pup will sound very much the same, however when in the middle position they will fight where both volume pots are set the same and all the bass falls away - thin and nasally I would describe it as. I have a ‘59 355 mono that does this and the magnets on the bridge pup are flipped to what is “normal”. Can’t speak to the coil winding without pulling it apart, which won’t happen unless it needs to. Running the volumes offset - one you get used it - brings some joy with some great sounds and crunch we couldn’t get on the 60 “normal” wired mono that we compared it to - the 59 smoked it 😊
Look at 14:19mins. See how he has the neck pup set up? He has it tilted down at the low E and raised up at the high E. He has really tried to add mojo
 

MeHereNow

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Aug 13, 2009
Messages
677
Put a 4.7 Nf capacitor on the bridge PU tone pot in place of the standard 22 Nf, roll back the tone and save soldering and tempering with the pickup.
Same "nasal" type of sound as fliping magnets or reversing coil wiring and removable/reversable in 5 min.
 

duaneflowers

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Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,522
Certainly on their own an out of phase pup will sound very much the same, however when in the middle position they will fight where both volume pots are set the same and all the bass falls away - thin and nasally I would describe it as. I have a ‘59 355 mono that does this and the magnets on the bridge pup are flipped to what is “normal”. Can’t speak to the coil winding without pulling it apart, which won’t happen unless it needs to. Running the volumes offset - one you get used it - brings some joy with some great sounds and crunch we couldn’t get on the 60 “normal” wired mono that we compared it to - the 59 smoked it 😊

I was referring to the OP... whether you flip the neck mag or reverse wind it, in the middle position they will sound the same... :salude
 

JLee

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Joined
Nov 27, 2010
Messages
89
Would have been a better comparison if both sets of pickups were compared in the same guitar. I’ve done the magnet flip in several guitars and the middle position sounds different in different guitars. I’ve had guitars that you could barely hear the effect and some that were overly thin and nasally. Im sure pot values and tapers will also affect the quality of the out of phase tone. I wonder how closely matched the volume pots on the Navigator are. Maybe one is a good bit lower/higher than the other when at “10”, affecting the phase cancellation.
 

Outtahear

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Joined
Dec 23, 2002
Messages
450
According to Tim Mills and others who've been involved w/the actual guitar, rewound neck PU in play.

Here's a link to some familiar winders, and a few netsperts on the subject, (Put rain slicker on b4 opening-shit nor'easter ahead...).

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/_gtr/AMPAGE_discussion-Peter_Green_Neck_Pickup.pdf

2 things from article..

1) Hands-on experience often has different results from well known, factual techsplainations....and

2) Big part of PG's LesPaul's OOP tone is PG's specific LesPaul. Guitar has "that sound", even unplugged.
(Like EC's Bluesbreaker LP).

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program, "As he Bobbin Turns.."
 
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