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Winding Pickups: Unbalanced coils question

philbard

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
4
Hello all, I'm new to winding pickups and have had success with the first 2 sets of Humbuckers I've done. In the second set I went with unbalanced coils ala Lindy Fralin's Unbuckers, 5K/3.5K in the bridge and 4.5K/3K in the neck, Alnico 4's. They sound fantastic and differ from the first set I wound, which was balanced. A bit more of the single coil sound. I chose to do the slugs with the higher winds based on some info I found on StewMac's site, but afterwards I saw that Fralin and Lollar choose the pole piece coil for the higher winds rather than the slug.

My question is, does anybody know if it makes a difference?

Cheers,
Phil
 

LtKojak

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
208
does anybody know if it makes a difference?
Of course it does. And just by analyzing the physics of it, the answer should be right before your eyes, although the effect is a lot less noticeable in neck p'ups, due to the physics of harmonic content of the strings read by the poles.

Don't expect to find a lot of reliable info on the web about this topic, as this is part of "proprietary information" most commercial winders won't reveal publically. The only clue I could give you is the following: in bridge p'ups, the dominant coil is the slug one, and in neck p'ups the dominant one is the screw one.

Another thing: talking DC readings without mentioning the wire gauge makes no sense at all. Useful references are: amount of turns, TPL aka turns per layer, AWG# aka wire gauge, Max-Nom or Min-Nom spool, type of wire insulation, like Plain enamel, Poly, Nylon, Formvar, single or double coating, and the most useful of all measures, Ohm per Foot.

Capacitance and Inductance are useful units of measure too.

Hope that helps,
 

philbard

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
4
Of course it does. And just by analyzing the physics of it, the answer should be right before your eyes, although the effect is a lot less noticeable in neck p'ups, due to the physics of harmonic content of the strings read by the poles.

Don't expect to find a lot of reliable info on the web about this topic, as this is part of "proprietary information" most commercial winders won't reveal publically. The only clue I could give you is the following: in bridge p'ups, the dominant coil is the slug one, and in neck p'ups the dominant one is the screw one.

Another thing: talking DC readings without mentioning the wire gauge makes no sense at all. Useful references are: amount of turns, TPL aka turns per layer, AWG# aka wire gauge, Max-Nom or Min-Nom spool, type of wire insulation, like Plain enamel, Poly, Nylon, Formvar, single or double coating, and the most useful of all measures, Ohm per Foot.

Capacitance and Inductance are useful units of measure too.

Hope that helps,

Ouch. I suppose that since I'm new to the pickup thing I'm opening myself up to being talked down to, but as I am new that is why I asked the question. And as for stating all the parameters of the wire and winds, I'm not sure how this bears on the concept of choosing slug or screw poles for the greater number of winds to create the midrange scooping I'm seeing from the unbalanced coils.

42 poly wire. Ohm/ft not supplied, I measured 2.3 but this seems doubtful.
5K coil: 6380 winds
4.5K coil: 5810 winds
3.5K coil: 4540 winds
3K coil: 3946 winds
 

philbard

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
4
Ouch. I suppose that since I'm new to the pickup thing I'm opening myself up to being talked down to, but as I am new that is why I asked the question. And as for stating all the parameters of the wire and winds, I'm not sure how this bears on the concept of choosing slug or screw poles for the greater number of winds to create the midrange scooping I'm seeing from the unbalanced coils.

42 poly wire. Ohm/ft not supplied, I measured 2.3 but this seems doubtful.
5K coil: 6380 winds
4.5K coil: 5810 winds
3.5K coil: 4540 winds
3K coil: 3946 winds
 

PaulD

Active member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
673
42 poly wire. Ohm/ft not supplied, I measured 2.3 but this seems doubtful.

The spec for 42 AWG copper wire is 1659 ohms per 1000 ft @ 20 deg C so 1.66 ohms per foot would be the expected reading. When measuring with a multimeter the resistance of the test leads will need to be taken into account (short the test leads together and note the reading then subtract this from your measured reading). Of course when when measuring resistances at low levels such as this there are other factors that can affect the accuracy of the readings, temperature, the resistance of the connection between the test probe and the wire, etc.... For all practical purposes the specified value of 1659 ohms per 1000 ft can be used.
 

philbard

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
4
The spec for 42 AWG copper wire is 1659 ohms per 1000 ft @ 20 deg C so 1.66 ohms per foot would be the expected reading. When measuring with a multimeter the resistance of the test leads will need to be taken into account (short the test leads together and note the reading then subtract this from your measured reading). Of course when when measuring resistances at low levels such as this there are other factors that can affect the accuracy of the readings, temperature, the resistance of the connection between the test probe and the wire, etc.... For all practical purposes the specified value of 1659 ohms per 1000 ft can be used.

Thanks, that's helpful, I do understand about coil resistance and have seen the variation in readings due to temperature etc. Still the original question was about the concept of unbalancing coils and how choosing either the slugs or the screws for the larger wind affects the overall tone.
 

Sol

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Thanks, that's helpful, I do understand about coil resistance and have seen the variation in readings due to temperature etc. Still the original question was about the concept of unbalancing coils and how choosing either the slugs or the screws for the larger wind affects the overall tone.

A bridge position humbucker ' sees' more string energy over the slug coil as its further from the bridge than the screw coil.
The opposite in the neck position.. Makes sense?

The effect in the neck position is far less pronounced than at the bridge, this may account for Gibson winding their screw coils hotter than the slug coils on the Burst bucker range.
This produces a bridge coil with a subtle lift in the highs from the extra turns on the screw coil.

The neck position really benefits from extra turns on the screw coil, creating a voicing with some of the characteristics of a great P 90, enabling the two humbucker to be wound with specs that are very close in d/c resistance yet individually distinct and full of character.

Just to confuse you I've a set of custom winds waiting to be fitted where the slug coil in the bridge is hotter than the screw coil at 8.4 k ( 4.1k screw _ 4.3k slug).
How this will work remains to be seen, but I'd be happy to report if it's of interest!

BTW : If I've made mistakes in my post I'm always appreciative of those that can correct me
 
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