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Why Chambered LP standards?

DylanLP

New member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
18
I am not here to know which is better solid or Swiss cheese or chambered.

I am here to know:
1. Why did Gibson do chambered guitars from late 2007 till 2012?

2. Why did Gibson scrapped Chambering and gone back to the Swiss cheese design (aka modern weight relief)?
 

Bob Womack

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
2,195
Best I can tell, part of all of this is the typical response lag to customer comment from Gibson and part is as a result of the fact that they maintained for a while that there were little or no acoustic effects on the sound of the guitar from their efforts at weight relief. That had an effect on people's response. Folks tried out the schemes and discovered for themselves that there were effects in sound and balance.

Traditional-Weight-Relief-LP.jpg


The original "Swiss Cheese" scheme disproportionally took weight from the lower bout of the guitar, making some of the guitars headstock-heavy.


Chambered-Weight-Relief-LP.jpg


From what I can detect, Gibson next tried chambering because it allowed them to both better balance the guitar and shed more weight. However, the chambered guitars lost some of the girth in the sound and added something of the resonant sound of the ES-335. That's fine if that is the sound you are looking for but doesn't sound like a classic LP.



New-Modern-Weight-LP.jpg


So, Gibson tried Modern Weight Relief, a designed group of elliptical holes with mass maintained around the bridge/tailpiece area, which aided in weight relief but kept balance and a more solid-body sound.

2017-weight-relief.jpg


And most recently they've adjusted the Modern scheme and called it Ultra-Modern Weight Relief. The biggest adjustment sems to be to the holes in the waist are. This one adjusts the holes some to reinforce sonic girth with just a little better balance.

Does that help?

Bob
 

jbzoso2002

New member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
1,089
I have had 3 Lp's with swiss cheese weight relief.

On the 1st two I didnt know weight relief existed.

An 85 pre issue and an 89 std.

I now have a 96 studio which I love
and cant tell its relieved.

I picked up a chambered lp in a store and it felt
like cheap junk, and didnt sound right.

I have no experience with the new versions.

Jimmy
 

AJCR

Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
124
Re: Why Chamberd LP Standard?

So they could account for heavier blanks.
Plus it allowed for an extra marketing blurb once it came out. Both the chambering and swiss cheese introduction was not communicated to the public. It took decades before people realised the swiss cheese method started in the '82/83 era.

Plus they have not gone back to swiss cheese from chambering for practically any guitar. Guitars that went to chambering then went to modern relief, which is more like trivial pursuit pieces of pie shaped.
 

Axis39

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
83
@AJCR is correct, they're trying to deal with the heavier and heavier mahogany blanks they get. I would wager that the range of blank weights is just wider, with heavier and heavier outliers.

Chambering takes the weight relief thing a little bit further and gets those heavier blanks useable.
 

Ron5

New member
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
19
@AJCR is correct, they're trying to deal with the heavier and heavier mahogany blanks they get. I would wager that the range of blank weights is just wider, with heavier and heavier outliers.

Chambering takes the weight relief thing a little bit further and gets those heavier blanks useable.

Or the Less Paul.....doesn’t seem like those caught on to well
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
Re: Why Chamberd LP Standard?

My point is, if the purpose of Swiss cheese for modern weight relief so what’s the point of chambering.

Are you insinuating that my "chicken crossing the road" analogy was insufficient?
 

DylanLP

New member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
18
Best I can tell, part of all of this is the typical response lag to customer comment from Gibson and part is as a result of the fact that they maintained for a while that there were little or no acoustic effects on the sound of the guitar from their efforts at weight relief. That had an effect on people's response. Folks tried out the schemes and discovered for themselves that there were effects in sound and balance.

Traditional-Weight-Relief-LP.jpg


The original "Swiss Cheese" scheme disproportionally took weight from the lower bout of the guitar, making some of the guitars headstock-heavy.


Chambered-Weight-Relief-LP.jpg


From what I can detect, Gibson next tried chambering because it allowed them to both better balance the guitar and shed more weight. However, the chambered guitars lost some of the girth in the sound and added something of the resonant sound of the ES-335. That's fine if that is the sound you are looking for but doesn't sound like a classic LP.



New-Modern-Weight-LP.jpg


So, Gibson tried Modern Weight Relief, a designed group of elliptical holes with mass maintained around the bridge/tailpiece area, which aided in weight relief but kept balance and a more solid-body sound.

2017-weight-relief.jpg


And most recently they've adjusted the Modern scheme and called it Ultra-Modern Weight Relief. The biggest adjustment sems to be to the holes in the waist are. This one adjusts the holes some to reinforce sonic girth with just a little better balance.

Does that help?

Bob

Magic. This is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Appreciate your time and effort that went into answering my questions. Thanks Bob!
 

DylanLP

New member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
18
Re: Why Chamberd LP Standard?

Are you insinuating that my "chicken crossing the road" analogy was insufficient?

Of course not, your analogy was completely valid and did help answer my questions completely. My apologies for the misunderstanding!
 

DylanLP

New member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
18
Best I can tell, part of all of this is the typical response lag to customer comment from Gibson and part is as a result of the fact that they maintained for a while that there were little or no acoustic effects on the sound of the guitar from their efforts at weight relief. That had an effect on people's response. Folks tried out the schemes and discovered for themselves that there were effects in sound and balance.

Traditional-Weight-Relief-LP.jpg


The original "Swiss Cheese" scheme disproportionally took weight from the lower bout of the guitar, making some of the guitars headstock-heavy.


Chambered-Weight-Relief-LP.jpg


From what I can detect, Gibson next tried chambering because it allowed them to both better balance the guitar and shed more weight. However, the chambered guitars lost some of the girth in the sound and added something of the resonant sound of the ES-335. That's fine if that is the sound you are looking for but doesn't sound like a classic LP.



New-Modern-Weight-LP.jpg


So, Gibson tried Modern Weight Relief, a designed group of elliptical holes with mass maintained around the bridge/tailpiece area, which aided in weight relief but kept balance and a more solid-body sound.

2017-weight-relief.jpg


And most recently they've adjusted the Modern scheme and called it Ultra-Modern Weight Relief. The biggest adjustment sems to be to the holes in the waist are. This one adjusts the holes some to reinforce sonic girth with just a little better balance.

Does that help?

Bob

Comparing and looking through the 3 images above, the cambered is absolutely butchered! Maybe Gibson went like --- oooops we fu%^ed up, we will have to start put back more meat into this thing? Maybe they got the weight/tone/feel balance all screwed up?
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,541
I believe weight relief is an attempt to lighten up the weight while maintaining the classic Les Paul tonality. It has been fine tuned over the years. Chambering is an attempt at maximum weight reduction while maintaining solidbody feedback rejection if not the tonality.
 

DylanLP

New member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
18
I believe weight relief is an attempt to lighten up the weight while maintaining the classic Les Paul tonality. It has been fine tuned over the years. Chambering is an attempt at maximum weight reduction while maintaining solidbody feedback rejection if not the tonality.

What do you mean by ‘solid feedback rejection’?
 

440hz

New member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
84
Strap on your guitar.

Stand in front in front of your amp

Crank the volume

The guitar vibrates (and the strings vibrate) and at the frequency of the note your playing.

It comes "alive"

The vibration also causes feedback. Which is why you see artists holding their guitars up to the speaker cab to intentionally cause feedback

Solid guitars vibrate less at any given volume than hollow guitars.

Look up the term resonant frequency too - that helps to understand the effect that different material densities exert on the propagation of mechanical forces.
 

jtees4

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
209
I had a chambered 2008 LP Standard Faded (it's my avatar). It was among the lightest LP's I've ever felt, including others that were chambered. I actually loved the guitar, and as light as it was it still balanced perfectly. PLUS it sounded great. So I really think every guitar is different, some will sound better than others regardless of how they're made. All 9 lb. LP's don't sound the same, some will sound better than others. It works the other way too.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,541
What do you mean by ‘solid feedback rejection’?

One of the main benefits of solidbody guitars is that they don't howl uncontrollably. Hollowbody guitars can vibrate and produce a loud low frequency howl often called feedback. It can happen without playing. Just being near the amp with the guitar on can cause it to howl.

This is different from microphonic pickup feedback, which produces a high frequency screech and can happen on any guitar.

Which is different from "harmonic feedback" from a guitar string being driven by a speaker into infinate sustain and can happen on any guitar but is easier to control on a solidbody. Think Hendrix or Santana. This is musical feedback.

Chamberd Les Pauls are light, and have a different tone but do not howl. I like it.
 
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