• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Changing a Nashville bridge for an ABR-1.......worth the $$$ and effort?

JimFog

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
182
So, I know the ABR-1 is generally preferred by far over the big clunky Nashville bridge. I have a REALLY nice '13 Traditional that I can't help but wonder if it would benefit by doing the conversion. I know there are a few companies out there selling conversion kits.


I would imagine going whole hog and doing new posts, etc would be the thing to do, if you really want the full effect?

Has anyone done it.........found it worthwhile, or not? How would you describe the differences? Any particular conversion kits recommended?

Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • 10624966_10204268262962180_988503868347672079_n.jpg
    10624966_10204268262962180_988503868347672079_n.jpg
    45.5 KB · Views: 51

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
731
I’ve done it at least 3 times. To project guitars. The last time I kept the strings on and did a before and after di recording to be able to verify the difference.

removed bushings, wood plugs, tapped posts directly into the new wooden plugs etc.

Thr recorded difference was less dramatic than I had expected. Mostly because Acoustically the abr1 set up is noticeably louder.

A/B listening to the recordings the difference was a bit more subtle. But the volume, sustain and both treble and bass are increased with the abr1 setup. At least on the mik Sheraton I used as a test subject. That guitar was loud and had a focused voice prior to the bridge swap. But I like it even better now.
 

Wilko

All Access/Backstage Pass
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
20,853
I changed the bridge on my Traditional just using the conversion posts and ABR-1. I'm not confident that plugging the holes with wood and redoing would sound any better than the bushings already set. IMNSHO, the plugging work has a chance of not being as dense, and there's be an added layer of glue between the posts and the body/top. High frequencies would suffer most, and I like a brighter guitar.
 

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
731
Each guitar I’ve done this to has better high end content than stock with bushings. Different attack not as heavy on the transient but more high and low end content.

So whatever.
 

ivan H

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
5
I did the Faber conversion to my '13 Traditional. The guitar was just a little dark sounding & I was told it would alleviate it. I did the whole "Tone Lock" conversion, so locking ABR-1 & locking aluminum tailpiece. I used the press in bridge studs for which I had to deepen the drillings by about 1.5mm. On this guitar the result was quite positive, plain strings are clearer, wound strings too with more of that "piano" type twang thing going on.. I'm considering either adding the screw in type bridge studs or plugging & drilling/tapping for proper ABR-1 type studs in the future. Cheers
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Each guitar I’ve done this to has better high end content than stock with bushings. Different attack not as heavy on the transient but more high and low end content.

So whatever.

That has not been my experience. I've never noticed a positive tone shift from having the thin threaded post over the post bushing and adjustable wheel insert. The biggest thing I noticed was an improvement tone wise from the Brass Saddles of the old ABR1's I installed. Whether on bushings, ( I just drilled the holes wider on the ABR1 and used the whole Nashville assembly), or plugging the bushing holes and redrilling for thin ABR posts, (a waste of time, IMO with no sound improvement), the effect was mostly the same and I could detect no, zero, nada tone benefit to have easily bent thin whimsy posts over the sturdy bushing mount.

I did switch to some all brass bushings and thumbwheel posts, (nickel plated) made by Mighty Might in the 70's and those did sound way better than the thin ABR posts. I still have a few as I bought a bunch. I also tried brass saddles for the older style, (late 70's early 80's Nashville tunamatics I stockpiled), and though I have no problem with the bridge itself and there was a noticeable improvement of tone, IMO, with the brass saddles, it is WAYYYY easier to widen an ABR1 Bridge post hole than it is to switch saddles on the Nashville Bridge!!!!!! For me it was a pain in the ass not worth it, and I do like the Vintage look of the ABR1 so that was what I ended up doing. I get the benefit of the brass saddles and the cool look.

I thought about some conversion posts, but with my method the ABR1 is very, very tight on the adjustable thumb wheel of the Nashville bushing mount, so much that it won't fall off, and I think that is part of the tone improvement. It also sits more securely and doesn't rock. The only time I've used the classic thin threaded ABR1 post mount has been when I have converted from a wrap tail stud bridge, but as far as changing from a Nashville to ABR1 all I do is slightly widen the post holes and I'm good to go.
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
I often do the budget conversion post thing, not really for tone though, just looks. That said, I did the whole shebang twice, ironically one of those guitars was also an early 90's korean sheraton, the other was a hohner 335 type. Both times I did a maple dowel insert glued in, it was a phase I had to go through, and drilled for the post holes. Both times I was "meh" on the results, as in maybe it was a bit different but nothing noticeable was a sure fire improvement, sure looked good on the hohner and that hardware on the early korean sheratons could survive a nuclear war. Both of those guitars, for the price, were quite nice.


I'm also a saddle swapper, love the yellow brass but I do this silly thing where I file them a bit flatter/wider then sand smooth then barely notch by lightly imprinting the string to for a soft string break, no idea why, probably mental, but I dig the results. I have the pigtail saddles on my Heritage but TBH I didn't notice a difference between their brass and the brass on Kluson ABR's. I swapped a cheap set of ABS plastic saddles just for fun on my ES340 and really really dig them, not coming off. Reason I did it was the "vintage accurate" nylon saddles I paid extra for were hardly the same material as the strings kept sinking further and further into the saddle over a couple months to the point where the screw was about to touch the string...ebay purchases, ya never know, lol.
 

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
731
While I would have to agree that the biggest bang for the buck change in performance would have to be in material choice. IE...different metal for the bridge or saddles.... abr1 posts into wood has always been a positive move for me.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
While I would have to agree that the biggest bang for the buck change in performance would have to be in material choice. IE...different metal for the bridge or saddles.... abr1 posts into wood has always been a positive move for me.

How so? Have you made direct comparisons of abr1/bushing to abr1/dowelled thin post? Or do you attribute what you hear just to the posts?
 

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
731
How so...

In my first reply to this thread.

I did do a di before and after recording with the same strings.

basically....more highs more lows and more volume after the plugs and threaded posts.
Easy to hear and see in pro tools. More dramatic difference when strummed acoustically.

I would attribute the difference to the posts vs. bushings.

Both Bridges are zamak or some such so I wouldn’t expect much change there.
 

thenutmpls

New member
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
1
I've noticed a big difference in the sound of the guitar. I bought the Callaham bridge and the Faber locking tailpiece and I have very few handyman skills so in terms of effort it certainly was worth it for me. The guitar has opened up more and the seems to bloom a bit more than it had been. Plus I just like the way the ABR-1 feels under my wrist more than the Nashville does. It seems strange, but it feels more lively than it did with the other bridge on.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
How so...

In my first reply to this thread.

I did do a di before and after recording with the same strings.

basically....more highs more lows and more volume after the plugs and threaded posts.
Easy to hear and see in pro tools. More dramatic difference when strummed acoustically.

I would attribute the difference to the posts vs. bushings.

Both Bridges are zamak or some such so I wouldn’t expect much change there.

I know there is a difference with bridge swaps and especially brass saddles. What I'm asking is have you compared the same bridge to each post/mounting scheme? I have on multiple guitars over 30 years. The same exact abr1 on 6/32 thread screw vs the exact same bridge on the same guitar with bushing/adjustable post. I have not found any noticeable improvement in tone with a dowel/6/32 screw post vs the bushing. I will use the screw post when preserving vintage authenticity but not to improve tone or function.

IMO and experience having an abr1 on a tunamatic bushing post does not negate any tone shift provided by the abr1. You lose nothing and get all the expected benifits. What I'm wondering is, what did I miss, or am not hearing?
 

rockabilly69

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
2,872
I love swapping out Nashvilles for ABRs, especially the Faber Tone-loc ABR! And I prefer the Faber deeper Nashville inserts than the stock shallow gibson inserts. I have swapped the Nashvilles out on 1 USA Les Paul Standard, 2 SGs, 2 Firebirds, 2 Les Paul Specials, 2 Heritage H150s, and in all cases the guitar sounded better than before except for one of the SGs which was because Faber sent me a defective ABR which they notified me of and quickly sent me a new one that sounded great. And in almost all cases the Nasville inserts popped out of their holes with almost no effort. I think the deeper Faber inserts make a better connection with the body. Kind of like the Mapleflame mod with ABR bridge posts.

Which insert would you rather have on your Les Paul???? The deeper Faber which is German Steel and integrated bridge post (on the right), vs the shallow pot metal Gibson...

BtgsrtU.png


And I love the Tone-Loc ABR when changing strings because the bridge stays on the posts!


Here's the Tone-loc system on one of my Heritages (all of my LPs are Historics so no Nashvilles to replace)...
z2mRn7I.jpg
 

ivan H

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
5
I agree that the Faber tone lock ABR is a nice bit of kit. I also like the Faber locking tailpiece stud/shim kit. I added the lightweight aluminum tailpiece & studs/shims to my traditional, but just used the studs/shims with the stock tailpiece on my SG. Cheers
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
@rockabilly69, is that faber nashville sized insert a one piece thingy? And, if so, are those the regular abr post threads on it or is it only faber compatible?
 

rockabilly69

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
2,872
@rockabilly69, is that faber nashville sized insert a one piece thingy? And, if so, are those the regular abr post threads on it or is it only faber compatible?

yes it is, but I don't know if it's only Faber compatible, as that's all I've ever used them with! Call Faber, they have great customer service, and they may be able to help with the answer. Another thing that I like about the Faber system is replaceable ABR saddles so you can mix and match titanium and brass (plated or unplated, and notched or unnotched).

Here's there contact info...

Phone: 1.800.601.0212

Email: support@faberusa.com
 

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
731
Big al.

I don’t know what you’re missing or what you’re not hearing.

I wasn’t able to test or record the same bridge on posts vs. bushings due to bridge/posts compatibly issues. But it’s an interesting idea. I have given credit to the small but obvious shift in volume and voice on these guitars to the bridge mounting method. But two variables were changed.

I’m sure one zamak or similar bridge to another could sound different? But I wouldn’t expect it because it wasn’t the most dramatic change from A to B . And you’re right that could be attributed to operator bias.

But it what do I know? I was happy with the results of the “maplefrlame mod”.
 

ivan H

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
5
@rockabilly69, is that faber nashville sized insert a one piece thingy? And, if so, are those the regular abr post threads on it or is it only faber compatible?

I bought the complete Faber Tone Lock kit for my Traditional. The Nashville inserts have a metric thread. They supplied both the metric lock caps & the correctly threaded ABR post lock caps in the insert zip lock bag. Hope this helps. Cheers
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Big al.

I don’t know what you’re missing or what you’re not hearing.

I wasn’t able to test or record the same bridge on posts vs. bushings due to bridge/posts compatibly issues. But it’s an interesting idea. I have given credit to the small but obvious shift in volume and voice on these guitars to the bridge mounting method. But two variables were changed.

I’m sure one zamak or similar bridge to another could sound different? But I wouldn’t expect it because it wasn’t the most dramatic change from A to B . And you’re right that could be attributed to operator bias.

But it what do I know? I was happy with the results of the “maplefrlame mod”.

My mistake, I thought you were saying the 6/32 screw post was an improvement over the bushing post. I've found noticeable difference between stock abr1 and nashville tuneamatics. BIG improvements with quality aftermarket bridges for both for sure and options to suit most preferences.

The central question, I thought, was swapping a nashville out for an abr1. It is my opinion that using the existing mounting post is easier than dowel/ redrill and sounds as good.
 

Don

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Messages
5,732
Last week, I installed a Faber BSWKIT and ABRN bridge and an RS Guitarworks lightweight tailpiece and steel studs in my 2014 Traditional Pro II '50s neck. The BSWKIT, lightweight tailpiece and steel studs were parts that I had on hand. I just bought the ABRN bridge new. I like that it has the ABR-1 look and feel but fits the spacing of the Nashville. The previous owner had put a Tonepros Bridge and tailpiece on the guitar.

The improvement in sustain is dramatic. I think that has a lot to do with the BSWKIT, though I installed the lightweight tailpiece and steel studs at the same time. The guitar sounds better too- there's more nasal honk and flutey sounds through a cranked amp than before. I would've normally associated with pickups but I made sure they were set the same as they were before I made the changes.
 
Top