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Problems tuning GLP Standard HP 2018: saddles all the way back and still sharp!

cfibanez

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At least in the low E string, and borderline in the G string, the bridge saddles are all the way back and still get sharp notes in all frets. Note: in my case saddle screws are facing the rear of the guitar (from factory). There does not seem too be any more room to lengthen the strings. Pic HERE. What to do? Thanks in advance! Greetings, Carlos.
EDIT: it's a 2017 model, not 2018, sorry! /DS
 
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Zentar

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You can turn the saddles around to give yourself, a mm or 2, more room for intonating
 

cfibanez

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You can turn the saddles around to give yourself, a mm or 2, more room for intonating
Thanks for replying. I did (after taking that pic). It improved in some of the strings. The lower E, however, would still need more room. Nothing else to do right? I guess I am out of luck. Expensive guitar, and not properly manufactured. That really sucks. The tone and looks are great though. If they'd just put a bit more care in making things properly....
 

Zentar

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I cant see any slots cut in your saddles.
You could get a luthier to intonate for $30. Dont hesitate to let a luthier have a crack at proper intonation. They can spot little things most of us overlook
 

P.Walker

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I'd bet almost anything that the neck has huge relief in it.

Nashville bridges, as disrespected here as they are, one good thing is that it's harder for it to lean, or be crooked.

The sign that every single string demonstrates this almost indicates a global issue.

If not the bridge, then the only thing that can alter the string length itself is the relief, provided they didn't install the bridge wayward.

OP, can you measure the relief right now? What is the gap like as you hold down the first fret and the 16th fret?

also, an accurate strobe tuner can help determine just how far off the intonation is gone.

Start with relief. I am almost positive barring any tuner misreadings, incorrect bridge installation, neck relief is the issue.

Bring it back straight and you'll see the saddles will have to move towards the center of the bridge more or less.
 

cfibanez

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I'd bet almost anything that the neck has huge relief in it. Nashville bridges, as disrespected here as they are, one good thing is that it's harder for it to lean, or be crooked. The sign that every single string demonstrates this almost indicates a global issue. If not the bridge, then the only thing that can alter the string length itself is the relief, provided they didn't install the bridge wayward. OP, can you measure the relief right now? What is the gap like as you hold down the first fret and the 16th fret? also, an accurate strobe tuner can help determine just how far off the intonation is gone. Start with relief. I am almost positive barring any tuner misreadings, incorrect bridge installation, neck relief is the issue. Bring it back straight and you'll see the saddles will have to move towards the center of the bridge more or less.

Thanks!
The gap is about a millimetre from the string (6th) to the 5th or 7th fret metal bar.
It is bent, not by a lot.
Now, if I straighten it, the strings will get sharper, or?
Isn't that even worst in my case?
 
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Zentar

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Thanks!
The gap is about a millimetre from the string (6th) to the 5th or 7th fret metal bar.
It is bent, not by a lot.
Now, if I straighten it, the strings will get sharper, or?
Isn't that even worst in my case?

Stop.
 

P.Walker

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OP,

1mm relief is huge. Astronomical even by SRV standards.

Relief is the first step towards proper setup (after level frets).

Without dialing that in, everything else is much more of a crapshoot.

Straightening the neck, ceteris paribus, the strings will get slightly sharp.

Detune then tune up to pitch, and you will find that as you intonate, you will find the intonation now flat, and tbhs you will have to “shorten” the string length by moving the saddles towards the middle, and while doing so, you would have taken care of the problem.

It’s a truss rod, not a nuclear weapon, don’t know what the other guy is on to.

You know how to use a wrench to turn a nut and took basic geometry class that taught you how to measure using rules/gauges etc.? Right, not nuclear physics. Anyone can do it.
 
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cfibanez

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A millimeter relief IS huge. A millimeter in the STRING HEIGHT (which is what he said) is nothing. Let's make sure we are not walking down the wrong path here. He needs to measure neck relief (I agree there, my bad (I often ASSume they have done these things)) I do not believe he knows how. Knowing they Plek I would suggest he use a notched straight edge on the neck too instead of a flat across the frets approach. Also, I apologize, first the relief, then adjust the bridge height, check nut cuts if necessary and set pickup height if needed. THEN intonate. We need a sticky up here with those things for peeps to find right off the bat so I can stop giving bad advice!

I am sorry for having asked such a newbie question.

Yes, 1mm was RELIEF, not just string height. I have used the truss rod provided with the guitar. It was very easy to do. I don't know what's the new relief, but I would say 0.2mm (approx. 8/1000 of an inch). It helped the intonation problem, although I still need to do more tests. And it also plays nicer. Great!

Thanks very much for your help. And sorry again for having asked such basic question. More than a sticky, it may be better to just have a section for basic questions.
 

P.Walker

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I am sorry for having asked such a newbie question.

Yes, 1mm was RELIEF, not just string height. I have used the truss rod provided with the guitar. It was very easy to do. I don't know what's the new relief, but I would say 0.2mm (approx. 8/1000 of an inch). It helped the intonation problem, although I still need to do more tests. And it also plays nicer. Great!

Thanks very much for your help. And sorry again for having asked such basic question. More than a sticky, it may be better to just have a section for basic questions.

Don't be sorry buddy; I'm sure most mean well.

It's a good thing that as I predicted, the proper relief adjustment brought you back at least close to proper adjustment of range of intonation.

Most gibsons from the factory and on the walls have too much relief.

If it were my guitar I would have these things done, since it does sound like a relatively new guitar.

- check frets are level
- check relief is no more than necessary (if you can actually see a gap, that is too much- 0.25mm is 0.010" inch relief which is actually too much- factory recommends this because it's a middle of the road setup- there is a reason most pros and serious players don't generally abide by this general rule- it's too generous of relief. hold down any one string at the first fret with your left hand, hold the 16th fret with your thumb, and with your index, check how much the string "bounces" off the 7 or 8th fret. An amount that you can't see but can feel or "hear" is good. No sound would indicate dead straight or backbow.
- check nut height. Ideally the nut is another fret, so "zero" fret height would be best, but folks typically leave that a bit higher because the open string has greater arc. How much? Again, not enough to see, but enough to feel and hear is a good starting point.
- then adjust action in the region of 4/64 - 4.5/64ths (or 1.5mm to 1.75mm)
- new strings
- pickup height - depress string at 22th fret. check gap between the pickup and string. 1.6mm- 2mm is a good starting point.
- intonation should be a breeze. a good strobe tuner should help. Check open string against the fretted 12th- not the harmonic. We play fretted, not harmonics.

Whether you do this yourself or have a tech do it is up to you :)
 

renderit

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I am sorry for having asked such a newbie question.

Yes, 1mm was RELIEF, not just string height. I have used the truss rod provided with the guitar. It was very easy to do. I don't know what's the new relief, but I would say 0.2mm (approx. 8/1000 of an inch). It helped the intonation problem, although I still need to do more tests. And it also plays nicer. Great!

Thanks very much for your help. And sorry again for having asked such basic question. More than a sticky, it may be better to just have a section for basic questions.


YOU did nothing wrong. The problem was ME not reading what you and Mr. Walker wrote!

I have fired my reader!

Carry on.
 
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Zentar

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Do several project guitars before you attempt major repairs on a problem LP. Most buzzing is bridge related. Those 6 tiny pretzel shaped springs that hold the saddle screws will buzz. The saddles will buzz. The screws themselves buzz

There is a wide bridge called a Harmonica bridge that will give you a lot more intonation adjustment range for the saddles
search
 

P.Walker

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Do several project guitars before you attempt major repairs on a problem LP. Most buzzing is bridge related. Those 6 tiny pretzel shaped springs that hold the saddle screws will buzz. The saddles will buzz. The screws themselves buzz

There is a wide bridge called a Harmonica bridge that will give you a lot more intonation adjustment range for the saddles
search

Harmonica bridge is a bandaid solution to a guitar that most likey does not need it, any more than it needs basic adjustments. Nashville should have plenty of adj range as it is.

- as evidenced by him saying 1mm relief and the range of intonation improving once he straightened it.

Nor is it highly likely the bridge itself is drilled in the wrong place for this sort of thing to happen, nor to necessitate more drastic measures in the harmonica bridge.
 
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