How come all Historic R9s and R8s are not Cherry Sunburst?

deytookerjaabs · Jun 6, 2018

Wizard1183 said:
That guitar is hideous. I hate that red to yellow. It doesn’t look good at all. Red to yellow is just not a great looking color scheme imo. However I bet that guitar looks great now that it’s faded

I think in real life guitars with that deep red don't photograph well, in person the red is much more transparent, here's another photo but in Black/White and you can see all the flame:

I always though ole Floyd Newton, long time Gibson finisher (started spraying in '59) and then Heritage paint man, knew what he was doing when he said "that's how they looked in the 50's:"

I love the original finish, different strokes for different folks.

Wizard1183 · Jun 6, 2018

deytookerjaabs said:
I think in real life guitars with that deep red don't photograph well, in person the red is much more transparent, here's another photo but in Black/White and you can see all the flame:

I always though ole Floyd Newton, long time Gibson finisher (started spraying in '59) and then Heritage paint man, knew what he was doing when he said "that's how they looked in the 50's:"

I love the original finish, different strokes for different folks.

thats fine, but to me? I can paint that. Just like Tom Murphy painted guitars. Don’t see any hoopla over them. They look the same to me. Why would I spend $3k more cause he painted one when he’s using the same crap Gibson’s uses on their regular reissues? Lol not like he’s using a banned substance? HM or Dave Johnson to me spray much better than Tom in appearance. But that’s me....

The red is just a 2-3” band around he guitar. Looks like a clown. Aka clownburst. But as you said diffeeent strokes.... mine? I’d fade the red to what a vintage instrument looks like today. To me it looks 1 million times better.

but pictures never do justice. Even my 59TH. Looked good in a certain lighting. Otherwise it looked pink or megwnta and taking a pic it looked like a clown burst. Just not my thing. Now if I take a pic? It looks better cause the red isn’t so prevalent.

NINFNM · Jun 7, 2018

I feel the opposite as what seems to be the potential customer.
I love the look of a unfaded 60´s bright red cherry (not dark) sunburst. Way more than those iced teas or brownish sunbursts which are the norm out there

martie6621 · Jun 7, 2018

https://imgur.com/a/rb6L3Fh

Kind of like this CSB, although it's not a clown face which I also like.

vintage58 · Jun 8, 2018

In addition to 2010's "Version 3" 50th Anniversary R-0's that came with a gold COA, other past cherry sunburst Les Pauls with wide sunbursts (with reds of varying width, darkness, and opacity) include:

- limited run of approximately 25 "Cabernet Burst" R-9s from 2011;
- Collector's Choice "Donna" Les Paul;
- Collector's Choice "Rosie" Les Paul;
- 1971 cherry sunburst Les Paul Deluxe; and
- 1971 cherry sunburst Les Paul Custom.

Here, for example, is a picture of one of the better-looking 2011 Cabernet Burst R-9s:
.

..........

El Gringo · Jun 8, 2018

vintage58 said:
In addition to 2010's "Version 3" 50th Anniversary R-0's that came with a gold COA, other past cherry sunburst Les Pauls with wide sunbursts (with reds of varying width, darkness, and opacity) include:

- limited run of approximately 25 "Cabernet Burst" R-9s from 2011;
- Collector's Choice "Donna" Les Paul;
- Collector's Choice "Rosie" Les Paul;
- 1971 cherry sunburst Les Paul Deluxe; and
- 1971 cherry sunburst Les Paul Custom.

Here, for example, is a picture of one of the better-looking 2011 Cabernet Burst R-9s:
.

..........

absolutely love that color .

renderit · Jun 8, 2018

martie6621 said:
Were not all the originals CSB with the exception of the odd Sweet Cherry or one off custom orders? I don't get the love for Lemonbursts and it's variations. Also Iced Tea - I mean that's how some faded to but to be accurate to vintage specs should they not all be Cherry Sunburst. If we were to get into a time machine and travel back to 1959 and walked into a Gibson dealer to buy a Les Paul Standard and asked for Lemon or Iced Tea what would we be told?

I read discussions about small details on Historics like truss rods, proper plastics, binding, etc.....yet we don't mind the color inaccuracies. ........Just sayin....

Lord, thank you that we are not given the choices that Mr. Martie wants. Jes' sayin'!

If you got into a time machine and went back to '59 I suspect you would find a wider variation than what you think. Some sprayed heavier, some lighter. Very few 'tomato soup'. A few that were in the window for a few weeks and already faded. Some much darker than others. But still, a lot fewer than you want. And gold everywhere.

I'll keep my teaburst, darkburst and lemonbursts. I DO need a red one though. And no 'tomato soup' for me, thanks. Besides, didn't that come in 60?...

GotTheSilver · Jun 8, 2018

Wizard1183 said:
That guitar is hideous. I hate that red to yellow. It doesn’t look good at all. Red to yellow is just not a great looking color scheme imo. However I bet that guitar looks great now that it’s faded

It seems to have worked well for McDonald's over the past 60 or so years! Come to think of it, isn't their mascot a clown?

deytookerjaabs · Jun 8, 2018

I think you'll find some slight initial color variation due to the mix as it was just a guy (or gal) mixing the color/thinner/etc just like we do today. But, mostly I think the rest (beyond tobacco etc) of the variation is all aging related. Hell, the backs can look like totally different colors from one serial # to the next even though we know it was all the same cherry filler. What I recall from reading some of the heavy replica builds is that it was just the formula/maker of the red that changed sometime around the "tomato soup" era which made the color less UV sensitive.

Dunno for sure but I'd guess most 'bursts looked "tomato soup" when new.

Wizard1183 · Jun 8, 2018

GotTheSilver said:
It seems to have worked well for McDonald's over the past 60 or so years! Come to think of it, isn't their mascot a clown?

Nope. Used to be a clown though. Lol had to stop luring kids into getting fat!
it worked for McDonalds yes. Can’t say I like it though lol

Tom Wittrock · Jun 9, 2018

deytookerjaabs said:
Dunno for sure but I'd guess most 'bursts looked "tomato soup" when new.

I don't think they looked anything like tomato soup. That term is often used for late 1960 Bursts, but actually only some have that coloration.

BTW: Is that a 60 Burst? :hmm

deytookerjaabs · Jun 9, 2018

Tom Wittrock said:
I don't think they looked anything like tomato soup. That term is often used for late 1960 Bursts, but actually only some have that coloration.

BTW: Is that a 60 Burst? :hmm

Think those were all '59's I posted. I always thought tomato soup basically meant red teardrop type finish but sounds like it's more specific in meaning :dunno

Thus, I figured if there's red around the neck pickup cavity (or under guard etc) then the guitar probably had a red 'drop to begin with?

Edit: come to think of it, I've never really seen a "soup" 'burst in person that I can recall, is it that the red is fairly solid? Some of the pics on the 'burst serial site make it look pretty opaque but it's hard to tell in old photos.

Tom Wittrock · Jun 9, 2018

They are the brighter red but getting opaque towards the edges.
I'll try to find a clear example. :hmm

renderit · Jun 10, 2018

deytookerjaabs said:

THAT almost qualifies as a tomato soup IMO. Though it is a little darker and more transparent.

deytookerjaabs · Jun 10, 2018

renderit said:
THAT almost qualifies as a tomato soup IMO. Though it is a little darker and more transparent.

Yeah, they call it "antique cherry sunburst" and when I toured the place in '07 the feller (who I later found out who he actually was, Floyd Newton) in the spray booth held up a finished H-150 in antique cherry and was insistent "that's how they all looked back in the 50's" except for tobacco etc I imagine. None of the Antique Cherry H-150's I've seen in person were opaque at the edges, but I've had similar color guitars that photographed as if it was a solid color at certain angles, not a photogenic finish but I still think it looks great in person.

Black58 · Aug 5, 2018

PHILBERT said:
I must have have been "tuned in" to this line of thought, as I was just about to post my own rant on the same exact topic. Just finished drafting it when I logged in and saw this thread topic.

My $0.02...

Where is the original Les Paul sunburst color with vibrant yellow and deep red color? I don't see any new Custom Shop guitars made with the exact original finish! All Gibson seems to think everyone wants these days is faded and washed out finishes. What happened to color!?

Although I can understand younger generations of enthusiast only knowing original bursts with faded-out finishes, there is still alive on this planet today a generation that fell in love with the original "factory fresh" sunburst finish full of vibrant yellow and deep red color. That, and a nice wide band of red, not just a thin red band with an "orange" center, is what a new Les Paul would have looked like in 1959. I find it strange that Gibson doesn't care to offer the original finish.

Maybe they are going to play another marketing game and offer a limited supply at a substantial markup. Is that it? More marketing games and price gouging? And this is what I dislike about Gibson management. All these years of "spoon feeding" games, wasting wood on poor imitations...when they could have easily made the guitar people wanted all along. It seems Gibson still doesn't understand why interest is "fading". BECAUSE YOU STRING THE POTENTIAL CUSTOMER ALONG WITH GAMES, AND GOUGE THEM FOR WHAT THEY WANTED ALL ALONG!

I'm not rich but, before I die, and before the wood supply is extinct from the planet, I would like to own a Les Paul that is built like (and sounds like) an original the day it left the factory in '59 or '60. Full of vibrant color and tone. No VOS. No fading. Maybe just authentic color binding and plastics that would have aged naturally...but no finish aging. Under bed and forgotten guitar from 1960 on. And I would want it to stay those colors forever! Same with the nickel plating...not something that turns milky white to greenish gray within a couple of weeks worth of playing! Hyde glue used on the long tenon and maple top. No truss rod tube. I guess True Historic specs, but for God's sake get the Kluson tuner peg plastic the correct color, and loose the transparency! While you're at it, can you please put the correct fret wire on the guitar? The same wire that was used from 1958 to the late 60's? And even the switch tip is still wrong...amber, NOT BROWN!. Sheesh! This is not that hard! I guess I "could" make some of those details correct, but why should I have to in the first place? Just make it right already! That's what makes me dislike the company so much. Games!

I'm glad to see prices come down, and because of that I'm prepared to try again after my 2010 (50th year) "perfect color" Historic R0 "internet buy" tone failure. But before I drive 5 hours to a dealer who stocks a good supply of them (not too many can), I would need to know if I have any chance at all of finding the tone I'm looking for on the finish I'm looking for. Why go through all that trouble if it doesn't exists? And even if I did find "the one", would the color start to fade out like my 2010 R0 was starting to fade out right before my eyes? (only had it less than 2 years!) I don't want it to "fade" at all. I mean, come on! It's 2018. Certainly, we have the technology to make them fade-free by now. But what is it going to take to get a "timeless" Les Paul that is made the same way as the originals, sounds like an original (I think they actually did come close on that within the last few years) and will look like an original FOREVER? There is NOTHING to stop Gibson from doing this. They could have done it decades ago.

Maybe my only option is to find an ugly faded-out (recent) version, with the top and neck glued using hot hyde glue, that has the tone I'm looking for...then have someone refinish the guitar and change the fret wire to the correct spec. The other minor details I can work out with a few after-market parts. But why should this added expense be necessary in the first place? It just pisses me off!

Please note I do not fault anyone for wanting an aged looking Les Paul. It might be what they fell in love with. It's just not what I fell in love with, and what I'm looking for. I'm wanting that authentic '59 "under-bed" guitar with "ageless" quality that will ensure the guitar looks that way forever. Will Gibson ever make this? And would they make enough of them that I have any chance of selecting one from a bunch that has the resonance I'm hearing in my head? That is what I want in a Les Paul. Is it too late for Gibson?

Phil

So glad to see you still chipping away at the stone, Phil. :hee

How come all Historic R9s and R8s are not Cherry Sunburst?

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