Help with '67 Sheraton

Thanks for clarifying the Switchcraft selector switch tip information, Tom Whittrock. That makes me 100% certain the tip has been replaced. The timeline should still be accurate, even though Switchcraft was the supplier, the tip material was changed. I even think Charlie Gelber did one of his educational posts on his ES 335 site about the color timeline of the tips. JimR56, I will try to do more research about the black/tortoise guard mystery through Gibson itself, to try to get a definitive answer....also when the back finishes became solid in color. From the photographic evidence, it probably has to be late '67 or early '68.

While I don't have copies, there are 50's era electronics supply catalogs that offered different color switch tips being available just like the cream and black ones Gibson used.
Imagine some 1950's military electronics board, with lots of switches marked by colored tips. And lights [like on old Fender amps] with different colored gems.

Exactly how Gibson sourced any and most of the individual electronics parts might have been from a variety of sources.
And I think Gibson bought the switches with switch tips on them [of a color Gibson approved].
That said, I think the switch and the tip might have different part numbers. :spabout

For Tom Wittrock: here is the scoop on the Switchcraft switch tips, garnered from several internet sources. You are correct, the tips came installed on the switches, and were used by several other guitar manufacturers, beside Gibson. From around 1949 through 1960, the tips were made from Catalin, a formaldehyde based poured resin, similar to Bakelite, but a totally different formula and manufacturing process. It becomes darker with more UV exposure and will eventually end up with that dark orange/brown shade that we have all seen on '50's era guitars. It starts only as a surface discoloration, but eventually penetrates all the way through the thickness of the piece. The next material was called Plaskon, which is a much whiter shade and a totally different resin formula, that does not darken with age or exposure. A few leftover Catalin tips made it into very early 1961 Gibson models, but from that point forward the tips were Plaskon. I think modern tips are some form of poly plastic, but not sure.

reddeluxe said:

I will try to do more research about the black/tortoise guard mystery through Gibson itself, to try to get a definitive answer....

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I suppose it will depend on how much experience and knowledge any particular Gibson source can offer. It's not always so straightforward when trying to get information from contemporary company sources. In my many years of participating at the Gibson forums, I noticed multiple instances where members (and visitors to the forums) posted about having questions answered by Gibson employees, and the company clearly failed to provide accurate information about their own history. I assumed it was younger employees who were sort of in over their heads in that regard.

JimR56 said:

Thanks Jake. Sounds like you narrowly missed out on a nice deal. Oh well, keep your chin up and your eyes open. They're out there. By the way, I'm in California, and I got my Sheraton from a seller in England (London). So you never know where they'll turn up.

I think you're more likely to find a Riviera in that price range than a Sheraton. More affordable, and you'll get the same great tone.

I found this Riviera here in the U.S., and their website indicates that they will ship outside the U.S.:
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm/search/60/found/1
https://www.gbase.com/gear/epiphone-riviera-1967-sunburst-3

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Thank you Jim!

JimR56 said:

Just thought I'd add something else here. Even after owning my '62 for about eight years now, I still like to keep my eyes on the vintage Sheraton market. I recently came across a 1961 example at a shop in Oregon. These early short headstock Sheratons are pretty rare (a lot harder to find than the long headstock examples). This one has a refinned neck (nice job), but it's priced in the same ballpark ($7K to $8K) as the more common long-head examples from the mid-60's. Most of the '60 to '62 examples that come on the market are priced much higher. Anyway, just FYI.

Store's page: https://www.mckenzierivermusic.com/product/8676

Their Reverb listing: https://reverb.com/item/7596101-epiphone-sheraton-1961-sunburst

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Jim, did you see that one in person? On Gibsons the early 60ies necks are supposed to be rather thin- is the same true for Epiphones?
Oh- and did the early ones have a 5 piece neck? Pretty sure it was a onc piece necks on the post 64 models I've seen so far.

fakejake said:

Jim, did you see that one in person?

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No, I just did a web search today and found it.

On Gibsons the early 60ies necks are supposed to be rather thin- is the same true for Epiphones? Oh- and did the early ones have a 5 piece neck? Pretty sure it was a once piece neck on the post 64 models I've seen so far.

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I haven't personally handled many 60's Sheratons. I knew what I was looking for and what features I liked, and that's what drove my decision to buy my '62. So, I can't speak with any authority about the feel of the necks in general. The neck on mine is fairly thin depth-wise, but has a pretty wide nut (between 1 11/16" and 1 3/4").

I can tell you that the earliest Sheratons (1958 to 1961) had the 5-piece necks left over from Epiphone in NY. They had started to switch over to using some Gibson-made parts (mini-hb pickups, knobs, etc) before '62, but it wasn't until '62 that they started building them with the one-piece mahogany necks. Without even seeing a rear view showing the neck, you can tell a '61 from a '62 by the fact that the '61 has the older, fatter style "Epiphone" headstock script logo, and the '62 has the more modern streamlined logo.

a Lot of Sheraton knowledge on this thread, so I'll ask a couple of questions:

Can a black pick guard with no E on it be stock for a late 1960s Sheraton?

What kind of tuners are stock?

What kind of knobs?

Thanks. Have loved the look of these babies for years and would like to play one, at least for a while.

We are having a discussion about when or if during the Sheraton's history, black pickguards replaced the original spec tortoise patterned 'guards. This seems to be a mystery, but there are a few examples of black pickguards that appear to be factory pieces. The control knobs generally follow the historical progression that Gibson knobs did, with the last models having witch hat knobs, like their Gibson counterparts. The stylized "E" on the pickguard is fairly easily removed, because they were an added on applied piece. The tuners should be factory gold Grovers for the timeline you are talking about.