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Help with '67 Sheraton

fakejake

Well-known member
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Sep 3, 2010
Messages
1,274
Hey guys,
I'm looking at this Epi Sheraton at the moment.
Not sure what it is, but something seems slightly off. Maybe it is the binding on the neck which is a lot whiter than on the body? Pickguard also looks less old then the rest of the guitar, as well as the knobs. And shouldn't the fingerboard be ebony? Looks like rw to me.
The seller says the back of the neck has been oversprayed 'in the middle' so apparently not around the headstock. For the right price I wouldn't mind a neck replair, as long as its well made. I just would like to know.
Any other thoughts?
Cheers!!!

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Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
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Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Fingerboard is correct with rosewood.
And the fingerboard binding does not get a clear coat [that ambers] on the top surface.
Pickguard is likely replaced. I think these were tortoise shell pickguards and they were prone to disintegrating.
 

JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
588
First of all, it's always great to see one of these that's (apparently) unmolested. Still has its mini-hums, Grovers, in fact it looks all original to me with the possible exception of the knobs. Even if they're not original, they're exactly what I would want on there (as opposed to black witch hats). Minor "issue", imo.

Sheratons had rosewood fingerboards, not ebony. Some had darker boards (my '62 is quite dark). I've seen lighter boards that looked great after getting some oil in them.

The binding contrast (more white on the neck and pickguard) is due to the lacquer yellowing on the body binding. The binding on the neck looks correct to me for that era of the Sheraton (it was applied differently in the model's earlier years).

Couldn't advise you regarding any possible head break/repair, but otherwise this thing looks beautiful to me. The amount of gold plating that's still there is quite impressive! This guitar has been taken care of over the years.

I'm biased, but I think these are great guitars, and the mini-hums provide a great change of pace tone from the regular hb's of the Gibson "cousins" (3X5's). If the price is right, I wouldn't hesitate.
 
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JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
588
Tom may be right about the guard being replaced. I hadn't even noticed the color (tortoise can look black in some photos). Again though, minor "issue". The original tortoise guards are ticking time bombs anyway, and this one looks nice in terms of the fit and finish.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
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Aug 2, 2001
Messages
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Tom may be right about the guard being replaced. I hadn't even noticed the color (tortoise can look black in some photos). Again though, minor "issue". The original tortoise guards are ticking time bombs anyway, and this one looks nice in terms of the fit and finish.

I have seen another late one [with witch hats] with original guard "still in the case" and the gold is gone [not just worn] from the pickups.
No 'Civil War' case though. :dang

... or, is that a reissue case? :hmm
 

reddeluxe

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Apr 27, 2017
Messages
82
Beautiful Sheraton and it all looks correct for it's vintage, with the possible exception of the control knobs....I think Epi followed the same timeline with Gibson in transition from reflector to witch hat style knobs, although the spec change may have been later for Epi, especially because there were so few Sheratons built. The headstock shape and factory installed Grovers are correct. The black pickguard is correct for later Sheratons; not sure when the transition happened from tortoise to solid black, but sometime around '66 or '67. As the other posters stated, the binding is correct and stays whiter because of no lacquer top coat. The rosewood fingerboard is factory correct. The case is also correct in style and interior color for this era, too. The only obvious part that has been replaced is the selector switch knob....it should still be white, not yellowed; the resin for tips was changed around 1960 and don't age like the '50's models. Overall, really looking at the details, I would check the serial # closely, as this Sheraton may be slightly older than a '67 model by aa year or so. Great find...I owned an identical Frequensator equipped '63, and it was one of my favorite guitars.
 
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JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
588
I was going to mention that the case appears to me to be original. I'm not sure of it, but the clean-ness and originality of the guitar would seem to increase the likelihood.

"Civil War" case... not sure I've ever heard that term for these gray/blue cases (and I own one!), but I feel like I should have by now. Anyway, I like it. :)
 

JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
Messages
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The black pickguard is correct for later Sheratons; not sure when the transition happened from tortoise to solid black, but sometime around '66 or '67.

Hmm... I would be curious to know where you came by this info. It doesn't jibe with what I've seen. When I decided I wanted a vintage Sheraton about ten years ago, I studied the model pretty extensively. I also saved photos of dozens of vintage Sheratons that I had found on the web. Of all the later ('66 to '69) examples I have on my hard drive, there's only one example that looks like it may have a black guard, and it's not even that close to the end of the original run (it's a '67). All of the others (including some from '68 and '69) clearly have tortoise guards, and they all appear to be original 60's material (none that are clearly repros). I've seen photos of many more that I didn't save, and I have no recollection of encountering other examples with black guards. Anyway, just stating what I've observed, for what it's worth.
 

JimR56

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Just thought I'd add something else here. Even after owning my '62 for about eight years now, I still like to keep my eyes on the vintage Sheraton market. I recently came across a 1961 example at a shop in Oregon. These early short headstock Sheratons are pretty rare (a lot harder to find than the long headstock examples). This one has a refinned neck (nice job), but it's priced in the same ballpark ($7K to $8K) as the more common long-head examples from the mid-60's. Most of the '60 to '62 examples that come on the market are priced much higher. Anyway, just FYI.

Store's page: https://www.mckenzierivermusic.com/product/8676

Their Reverb listing: https://reverb.com/item/7596101-epiphone-sheraton-1961-sunburst
 

reddeluxe

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Apr 27, 2017
Messages
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For JimR56, it is my understanding that when the Gibson factory started transitioning their plastics (witch hat knobs, thin border truss rod covers, slightly different pickguard shapes and thin borders) for the entire line of ES guitars, including the Epi variants, is when the Sheraton tortoise guard gradually started being phased out. Exactly what precise date, I have no idea, and because of the small number of Sheratons built, this could be over a period of months, with both types being offered during the same time frame. As with all things Gibson, the factory may have just used whatever material was on hand, and if the supply of tortoise plastic ran out, they simply used black? My source is the Special Projects Manager for the ES Division in the Memphis factory. As to the pics of the particular guitar we are seeing, the multi ply binding on the guard itself looks to be correct factory to my eye, though it's possible the original binding was saved from a tortoise guard and incorporated into a custom repro guard, from a specialty supplier such as Mirabella, who do excellent work. Also, the stylized "E" on the guard looks factory correct. I agree with you, that the short headstock models are esthetically superior, and much more rare.
 
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reddeluxe

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JimR56, PS. More Sheraton trivia: Do you know when the switch from matching front/back sunbursts to the solid dark back finish occurred on Sheratons? All the pictures I have found of '67 sunburst models have a matching back 'burst, while the '68 models are solid. Maybe we are seeing a '68 with switched knobs and black guard?
 

fakejake

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Sep 3, 2010
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Thanks a lot for your input everyone!
I contacted the seller yesterday, and made an offer via ebay this morning.
Unfortunately I received no reply, and the guitar is now listed as sold.

I assume there was a local buyer who made a deal outside ebay.
Its a shame, I've been looking for a Sheraton within my pricerange for years. Last year I played a beautiful '66 at Rudy's in New York, with a hint of olive green in the finish. Unfortunately the hassle with taking it onto the plane and import tax seemed too much, plus it really was too expensive. What a guitar though...it is still at Rudy's

:dang
 

Tom Wittrock

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Aug 2, 2001
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The only obvious part that has been replaced is the selector switch knob....it should still be white, not yellowed; the resin for tips was changed at Gibson around 1960 and don't age like the '50's models.

Just for clarity, Gibson did not make or source the switch tips. They came with the switches provided by Switchcraft. And I wonder if Switchcraft actually made them also.
 

Tom Wittrock

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"Civil War" case... not sure I've ever heard that term for these gray/blue cases (and I own one!), but I feel like I should have by now. Anyway, I like it. :)

I just made that up with that post, as I was about to write blue & gray. :ganz
 

JimR56

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JimR56, PS. More Sheraton trivia: Do you know when the switch from matching front/back sunbursts to the solid dark back finish occurred on Sheratons? All the pictures I have found of '67 sunburst models have a matching back 'burst, while the '68 models are solid. Maybe we are seeing a '68 with switched knobs and black guard?
This is a good question, and I don't have an answer. For some reason (maybe just by chance), I have come across very few sunburst Sheratons made after 1965. Of the very few I've saved photos of, I don't have photos of their backs. I haven't got any photos of any '66 examples in sunburst, so the time of the transition to the solid dark back is a mystery to me too.

By the way, I have photos of two all-walnut finished Sheratons, one a '68 and one a '69 (and both have tortoise guards).

With respect, I have to say that I remain unconvinced that Sheratons ever went to black pickguards as a stock feature. The '67 example linked to above (at the german shop) is yet another example with a tortoise guard (and it's got black knobs).
 

JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
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Thanks a lot for your input everyone!
I contacted the seller yesterday, and made an offer via ebay this morning.
Unfortunately I received no reply, and the guitar is now listed as sold.

I assume there was a local buyer who made a deal outside ebay.
Its a shame, I've been looking for a Sheraton within my pricerange for years.
I tried to find the listing, and was not successful. Can you give us an idea of your price range, and what this one might have sold for?
 

fakejake

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I tried to find the listing, and was not successful. Can you give us an idea of your price range, and what this one might have sold for?

You can find the seller here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/rockmooserock/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
It was listed for approx 4000$, with options for offer. If the seller is legit, my guess is it sold outside ebay for just a bit less than that.

I'd love to have either a Riviera or a Sheraton, but I can't spend more than about 4500$. My problem is I'm in Europe and there are very few of these models around here...
 

JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
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Thanks Jake. Sounds like you narrowly missed out on a nice deal. Oh well, keep your chin up and your eyes open. They're out there. By the way, I'm in California, and I got my Sheraton from a seller in England (London). So you never know where they'll turn up.

I think you're more likely to find a Riviera in that price range than a Sheraton. More affordable, and you'll get the same great tone.

I found this Riviera here in the U.S., and their website indicates that they will ship outside the U.S.:
http://www.williesguitars.com/index.cfm/search/60/found/1
https://www.gbase.com/gear/epiphone-riviera-1967-sunburst-3
 
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