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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member Analogman88's Avatar
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    Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Hello fellow Les Paul fanatics,

    I am a huge fan of Paul Kossoff's guitar tone, but I'm not like most. I am specifically after the sound of his rig on the first Free album, "Tons of Sobs". Lots of folks are trying for the "Alright Now" tone and that is a nice sound, but IMO none of his stuff sounds as good as the first album; it's more dirty, it's less bassy, and the highs have more of a gritty sparkle yet creamy sound, especially his solos and high note licks. This is what makes me think those speakers were the alnico 25Ws rather than the 55Hz bass speakers that he used later on. I spoke with Greg Germino and he thinks Koss was using alnicos on the first album as well and I really trust Greg's ear. The solos on the 2nd album still sound very similar, but the riffs are much more bassy and also not as dirty like the amp's not turned up as high. But the solos on the first album seem to have an alnico jangle in a very brown Marshall way, comparable to Beano tones but dirtier.

    Can anyone confirm this, or debunk my theory either way? I have the "Holy Grail" amp and the "Holy Grail" Les Paul is being built right now. I'm getting very close to this sound considering My LP is not a 50's LP or a good replica. (Real XF2s made a huge difference and a Tungsram in V1 gives some of that sparkle and grit) But now that I'm replacing my Celestion GBs I don't know whether to get Scumback M75-PVCs or S75-PVCs. Any advice greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member Analogman88's Avatar
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Check out the tone in both of these clips. The first one is from the first album and has the sound I spoke of. The second one is a live show (his live sound was usually Plexi on 10 unlike the recording of the 2nd album) from a couple years later and the tone is noticeably more bassy and has less jangle..still very good Les Paul-Marshall sound though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk9efqezOpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odLL_s3UJgs

  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Alnico 25w? Not sure what speakers you are referring to here? I'm certainly not an expert on vintage Marshall cabs but I'm not aware of any that would have been fitted with alnico speakers. The only Celestion alnico speakers that would have been available at that time would have been 15w blues so I doubt these would have been fitted in a 4x12 cab.

  4. #4
    All Access/Backstage Pass lpnv59's Avatar
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    IIRC, Tons Of Sobs was tracked with a early 45 or 50 plexi thru the cab PK built at home with his dad. No idea what speakers it was loaded up with.
    "It's a Marshall bubby. It gets loud." Ace Frehley

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member Analogman88's Avatar
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
    Alnico 25w? Not sure what speakers you are referring to here? I'm certainly not an expert on vintage Marshall cabs but I'm not aware of any that would have been fitted with alnico speakers. The only Celestion alnico speakers that would have been available at that time would have been 15w blues so I doubt these would have been fitted in a 4x12 cab.
    S75-PVC Alnico
    Classic jangle and detailed midrange enhanced alnico magnet guitar speaker with smooth overdrive and distortion tones. This is a superb tone and sound recreation of the early Kraft paper voice coil era "Blue Alnico" that was used in Marshall BluesBreaker combos, and many other British amps of the pre 1968 era such as Vox, Orange, Sound City, etc. They have a very pleasing upper midrange voice that cuts through the mix without being harsh. This speaker's tone is woodier, with more upper mids than the Scumnico, but with a tiny bit less bass and more treble.
    The 25w speakers are built to the original Kraft paper voice coil specs. If sent too much power, they will spark or catch on fire. Due to this possibility, they are sold without any warranty, liability or guarantee. Once you mount them, they are non-returnable, period, no exceptions. It is strongly recommended you buy four of these for a 50w amp, and eight for a 100w amp.
    The 65w speakers are built with higher temperature nomex voice coils and have a 1 year warranty.
    The 65w speakers do not spark or catch on fire.
    Who this speaker is for: Those who want to sound like "EC on the Beano album".
    Specially treated 75hz cone. Early Pre Rola style doping just like the originals.
    40 oz. alnico magnet, 1.75" voice coil, 12" wide. 4 bolt frame mounting (8 bolt available by request).
    25 & 65 watt power handling, 98 db. 8 & 16 ohm only.
    12-1/8" (30.79 cm) diameter, 5-3/4" deep (14.9 cm) without bell cover, 8.0 lb (3.85 Kg).

    Regular Price: $269.00
    Sale Price: $239.00
    Select S75-PVC Alnico Speaker -
    Shipping Fees - Shipping fees to the Continental U.S. is $25.00 per speaker.
    All other areas will be HIGHER. See Policies for more info.
    Factory Break In Is Now Included
    Input Quantity -
    Total item cost -
    Perhaps these ARE replicas of the 15W alnico Blues just in higher wattage versions...anyone know for sure?

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Quote Originally Posted by Analogman88 View Post
    S75-PVC Alnico
    Classic jangle and detailed midrange enhanced alnico magnet guitar speaker with smooth overdrive and distortion tones. This is a superb tone and sound recreation of the early Kraft paper voice coil era "Blue Alnico" that was used in Marshall BluesBreaker combos, and many other British amps of the pre 1968 era such as Vox, Orange, Sound City, etc. They have a very pleasing upper midrange voice that cuts through the mix without being harsh. This speaker's tone is woodier, with more upper mids than the Scumnico, but with a tiny bit less bass and more treble.
    The 25w speakers are built to the original Kraft paper voice coil specs. If sent too much power, they will spark or catch on fire. Due to this possibility, they are sold without any warranty, liability or guarantee. Once you mount them, they are non-returnable, period, no exceptions. It is strongly recommended you buy four of these for a 50w amp, and eight for a 100w amp.
    The 65w speakers are built with higher temperature nomex voice coils and have a 1 year warranty.
    The 65w speakers do not spark or catch on fire.
    Who this speaker is for: Those who want to sound like "EC on the Beano album".
    Specially treated 75hz cone. Early Pre Rola style doping just like the originals.
    40 oz. alnico magnet, 1.75" voice coil, 12" wide. 4 bolt frame mounting (8 bolt available by request).
    25 & 65 watt power handling, 98 db. 8 & 16 ohm only.
    12-1/8" (30.79 cm) diameter, 5-3/4" deep (14.9 cm) without bell cover, 8.0 lb (3.85 Kg).

    Regular Price: $269.00
    Sale Price: $239.00
    Select S75-PVC Alnico Speaker -
    Shipping Fees - Shipping fees to the Continental U.S. is $25.00 per speaker.
    All other areas will be HIGHER. See Policies for more info.
    Factory Break In Is Now Included
    Input Quantity -
    Total item cost -
    Perhaps these ARE replicas of the 15W alnico Blues just in higher wattage versions...anyone know for sure?
    The original Celestion alnicos (silver and blue) were all rated at 15 watts

  7. #7
    All Access/Backstage Pass lpnv59's Avatar
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    I thought the Celestion Silverdog alnico Vox used in the 60ís was 25w.i had a pair out of a parted out Royal Guardsman. They sounded as good as my blues did in my AC 30 but had a different tone curve. Maybe a little darker. Really different midrange. Iíve always read the silvers were rated at 25w
    "It's a Marshall bubby. It gets loud." Ace Frehley

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
    The original Celestion alnicos (silver and blue) were all rated at 15 watts
    True of the 652s, 731s and 530.

    Earlier alnico speakers like the B024/025 were rated 12W.

    25W voice coils weren't used until the T1221 changed up from 20W in '68.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    True of the 652s, 731s and 530.

    Earlier alnico speakers like the B024/025 were rated 12W.

    25W voice coils weren't used until the T1221 changed up from 20W in '68.
    I stand corrected - thanks for the info.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
    I stand corrected - thanks for the info.
    You were essentially correct, particularly on those speakers being discussed.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Man there are soo many variables, not least of all the sound between bot those clips could just be down to the mic they used, the mic placement and how it was mixed/eq'd, they type of desk or the specific pre-amps they where using. I'm not saying your wrong, but I think it's a stretch to draw the conclusions you are from recordings like that.

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
    Man there are soo many variables, not least of all the sound between bot those clips could just be down to the mic they used, the mic placement and how it was mixed/eq'd, they type of desk or the specific pre-amps they where using. I'm not saying your wrong, but I think it's a stretch to draw the conclusions you are from recordings like that.
    +1

    In any case trying to compare a live recording with a studio recording is a bit like comparing apples with oranges. As for what amplifier and speakers were used on the studio recording, that information is probably long lost in the annals of time but just because Koss is well known for using a Marshal stack does not mean that was what he used to record a specific track. It's likely that he used many different guitars and amps in the studio (probably this would often be what happened to be lying around in the studio at the time and not necessarily even his own gear) so it really is anyone's guess!

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Kossoff Alnico Speakers On Tons of Sobs Album?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpnv59 View Post
    I thought the Celestion Silverdog alnico Vox used in the 60ís was 25w.i had a pair out of a parted out Royal Guardsman. They sounded as good as my blues did in my AC 30 but had a different tone curve. Maybe a little darker. Really different midrange. Iíve always read the silvers were rated at 25w
    The only thing Celestion upgraded when they went from Blue to "Poly Grey" was the paint colour of the frame. They were always 15 watt speakers until they came out with the Alnico Gold 50 watt speakers. All sixties Alnico Celestions were 15 watts. I have friends who have interviewed the Engineers @ Celestion and they all say that every alnico made in the Sixties was never more than 15 watts.
    Ceramic magnet speakers could always handle more power.

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