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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    I would guess that the people who have had that kind of experience are few and far between. But maybe one of us has...maybe more than one...

    I'm curious as to how well they've reproduced the feel of the necks and general performance / tones. Also curious about how much variability there is from one instance of a particular CC model to another instance of the same model.

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member BGReed2's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Greg Martin has been known to "haunt" the LP Forum, he's the guy to ask. His '58 "Hank" has been replicated as CC #15, and he's got a couple that he uses all the time. You can look him up on Facebook. There isn't a nicer guy out there.
    "Know tubes, know tone. No tubes, no tone"

  3. #3

    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    I had a Goldie. Rumbleseat music was nearby and they had the real Goldie. The two were as different as night and day.

  4. #4
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    The four owners of this Forum have all had that experience, and not just with our own guitars.


    There are several others on this Forum that own originals and a CC of the same.
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  5. #5

    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    I own two ccs and zero original. And I am smart enough to know they look similar and nothing more.

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonC View Post

    I'm curious as to how well they've reproduced the feel of the necks and general performance / tones. Also curious about how much variability there is from one instance of a particular CC model to another instance of the same model.
    I have more experience with my Sandy and comparing CC versions than my Donna and the CCs.
    For Sandy, the necks feel the same and the tone is close enough that I cannot tell the difference when performing. When I got my two CCs [#1 and the Proto] I played a three set gig with all three, constantly changing guitars every three songs. When I was not looking at the guitar I could not tell the difference.
    I also borrow a CC Sandy in Germany and have played dozens of gigs with it. Same story, although I have no chance to do a side by side comparison with the real thing.

    For my Donna, I have only compared it in a quiet setting and not a gig. Neck feels the same and tone is great, if minutely different. Donna came from the factory out of phase, and in talking with Edwin Wilson at the Custom Shop we both agreed that was not a feature we wanted copied. I wish Donna was not out of phase, but I won't mess with such a nice guitar when I don't need to.

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  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member P.Walker's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I have more experience with my Sandy and comparing CC versions than my Donna and the CCs.
    For Sandy, the necks feel the same and the tone is close enough that I cannot tell the difference when performing. When I got my two CCs [#1 and the Proto] I played a three set gig with all three, constantly changing guitars every three songs. When I was not looking at the guitar I could not tell the difference.
    I also borrow a CC Sandy in Germany and have played dozens of gigs with it. Same story, although I have no chance to do a side by side comparison with the real thing.

    For my Donna, I have only compared it in a quiet setting and not a gig. Neck feels the same and tone is great, if minutely different. Donna came from the factory out of phase, and in talking with Edwin Wilson at the Custom Shop we both agreed that was not a feature we wanted copied. I wish Donna was not out of phase, but I won't mess with such a nice guitar when I don't need to.

    Is this because you don't use the middle position much on Donna?

  8. #8
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Very helpful information so far -- thanks all and keep those opinions coming!

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Here's an original, the prototype of the CC, and one of the production versions.

    The neck on the original and the prototype is a dead match. Blindfolded, I can't tell. Between the original and the production, they are 99.5% the same. I can't tell what's different, but my hand says something is very slightly different. I think it's the slight difference in the rolling of the edges, but not sure. I suspect most people wouldn't feel it.
    I've also played 2 other production copies of the same guitar. Neck size was pretty much perfect, but the edges weren't rolled as much as the original, so they tended to feel "sharper" on my thumb...for lack of a better explanation.

    Tone-wise, the 2 CCs sound sorta like one another, and in the same sonic neighborhood as the original. Similar frequency profile and output of pickups. e.g., bright, clear, etc. But not 100% the same as original. You'd hear the difference in person.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member Fried okra's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    I owned an aged Kossoff for six years, but sold it when I acquired the original Kossoff Burst. They forgot to break the neck and repair it. So yes, it’s a noticeable difference.
    Last edited by Fried okra; Today at 00:00. Reason: No reason, just felt like making it look like I edited it.



    "I just try to keep my fingers between the binding". Tom Wittrock

    He plays with feel (yeah, the sloppyness is a good thing for his style) and he's got tone to die for. He ain't no Petrucci or Vai. They got the technique down but no soul and no tone. - Hoss

  11. #11
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    Here's an original, the prototype of the CC, and one of the production versions.

    The neck on the original and the prototype is a dead match. Blindfolded, I can't tell. Between the original and the production, they are 99.5% the same. I can't tell what's different, but my hand says something is very slightly different. I think it's the slight difference in the rolling of the edges, but not sure. I suspect most people wouldn't feel it.
    I've also played 2 other production copies of the same guitar. Neck size was pretty much perfect, but the edges weren't rolled as much as the original, so they tended to feel "sharper" on my thumb...for lack of a better explanation.

    Tone-wise, the 2 CCs sound sorta like one another, and in the same sonic neighborhood as the original. Similar frequency profile and output of pickups. e.g., bright, clear, etc. But not 100% the same as original. You'd hear the difference in person.
    Thanks, really great info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried okra View Post
    I owned an aged Kossoff for six years, but sold it when I acquired the original Kossoff Burst. They forgot to break the neck and repair it. So yes, it’s a noticeable difference.
    Ha! No surprise there, lol. Congrats again.

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by P.Walker View Post
    Is this because you don't use the middle position much on Donna?
    Not sure exactly what you are asking about. Could you be more specific please?
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  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member P.Walker's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Not sure exactly what you are asking about. Could you be more specific please?
    "For my Donna, I have only compared it in a quiet setting and not a gig. Neck feels the same and tone is great, if minutely different. Donna came from the factory out of phase, and in talking with Edwin Wilson at the Custom Shop we both agreed that was not a feature we wanted copied. I wish Donna was not out of phase, but I won't mess with such a nice guitar when I don't need to."

    You said it was not a feature you wanted copied and wished the original were not out of phase to begin with so I assumed you enjoyed the guitar for what it is - perhaps likely that the neck or bridge position was more to your favor than the middle (and that position got played less- meaning no need to alter it if it's not something that is your main sound).

    Just asking of course

  14. #14

    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    You must be playing loud with overdrive. I never played the original but I can tell the different from the demo. The originals sound dryer, ticker and the depth.

    The original Strat I played sounded so much better than customshops.

    But I have to say I always play clean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I have more experience with my Sandy and comparing CC versions than my Donna and the CCs.
    For Sandy, the necks feel the same and the tone is close enough that I cannot tell the difference when performing. When I got my two CCs [#1 and the Proto] I played a three set gig with all three, constantly changing guitars every three songs. When I was not looking at the guitar I could not tell the difference.
    I also borrow a CC Sandy in Germany and have played dozens of gigs with it. Same story, although I have no chance to do a side by side comparison with the real thing.

    For my Donna, I have only compared it in a quiet setting and not a gig. Neck feels the same and tone is great, if minutely different. Donna came from the factory out of phase, and in talking with Edwin Wilson at the Custom Shop we both agreed that was not a feature we wanted copied. I wish Donna was not out of phase, but I won't mess with such a nice guitar when I don't need to.


  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by P.Walker View Post
    "For my Donna, I have only compared it in a quiet setting and not a gig. Neck feels the same and tone is great, if minutely different. Donna came from the factory out of phase, and in talking with Edwin Wilson at the Custom Shop we both agreed that was not a feature we wanted copied. I wish Donna was not out of phase, but I won't mess with such a nice guitar when I don't need to."

    You said it was not a feature you wanted copied and wished the original were not out of phase to begin with so I assumed you enjoyed the guitar for what it is - perhaps likely that the neck or bridge position was more to your favor than the middle (and that position got played less- meaning no need to alter it if it's not something that is your main sound).

    Just asking of course
    I only care when I perform, and I rarely perform with Donna. When I gig I use the middle position a lot, and it bothers me when that position is out of phase.
    When I do play Donna, I still use the middle position but sometimes I forget it is out of phase and then I get frustrated with that tone when I don't want it.
    My JG Bluesmaster has a push-pull pot that does this, so I have a guitar with the option.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by clapciadrix View Post
    I had a Goldie. Rumbleseat music was nearby and they had the real Goldie. The two were as different as night and day.
    In last roughly 7 years Gibson Custom Shop has been making CCs. At this moment on Gibson site there are 31 links for these guitar, when you select Les Paul and Gibson CS check boxes, an we might ignore one Jr DC and Tom Sholtz non original LP. So, it's 29 proper replicas of original Les Paul guitars. Note there is no CC#1 on site (Peter Green LP), so it only can be more than 29 in total.

    I've found these 2 clips ONLY that contain both ORIGINAL and CC REPLICA played by the same player through the same signal chain.

    https://youtu.be/y9ZkgEFRbdQ
    https://youtu.be/y2C4U-p7E_Y

    The obvious question is - why only 2 clips for 7 years? If they replicate timbre/'tone' of original, why no clips as simple proof of concept, as verification the cost is justified?

    Therse are no garden variety of 'what we think is close enough to have the name historic or reissue', or whatever. These are marketed as Gibson made REPLICAS of EXITING ORIGINAL Gibson guitars.

    30 or more originals that have CC version and only 2 clips for 7 years.

  17. #17
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by korus View Post
    In last roughly 7 years Gibson Custom Shop has been making CCs. At this moment on Gibson site there are 31 links for these guitar, when you select Les Paul and Gibson CS check boxes, an we might ignore one Jr DC and Tom Sholtz non original LP. So, it's 29 proper replicas of original Les Paul guitars. Note there is no CC#1 on site (Peter Green LP), so it only can be more than 29 in total.

    I've found these 2 clips ONLY that contain both ORIGINAL and CC REPLICA played by the same player through the same signal chain.

    https://youtu.be/y9ZkgEFRbdQ
    https://youtu.be/y2C4U-p7E_Y

    The obvious question is - why only 2 clips for 7 years? If they replicate timbre/'tone' of original, why no clips as simple proof of concept, as verification the cost is justified?

    Therse are no garden variety of 'what we think is close enough to have the name historic or reissue', or whatever. These are marketed as Gibson made REPLICAS of EXITING ORIGINAL Gibson guitars.

    30 or more originals that have CC version and only 2 clips for 7 years.
    Outstanding. Thanks for pointing those out. Wish I spoke Dutch. Google doesn't have a "spoken word" translator do they? (only half joking...)

  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Quote Originally Posted by korus View Post

    The obvious question is - why only 2 clips for 7 years? If they replicate timbre/'tone' of original, why no clips as simple proof of concept, as verification the cost is justified?

    Therse are no garden variety of 'what we think is close enough to have the name historic or reissue', or whatever. These are marketed as Gibson made REPLICAS of EXITING ORIGINAL Gibson guitars.

    30 or more originals that have CC version and only 2 clips for 7 years.
    To begin with, you would probably need hundreds of clips with various players to get a fair, honest opinion.

    But, why bother with all of that.
    All you have to do is play it, and decide for yourself if it is worth the price.

    "This ain't rocket surgery."
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  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    There are so many variables to get a definitive clip. Particularly the hands of the player.

  20. #20
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    Re: Anyone have experience with both a Collector's Choice model and the original?

    Yeah, I'd be happy if all demo clips were done by Greg Koch ;)

    But even with a fabulous player like GK, there will be people who are not satisfied with the demos. But at least all of the Wildwood demos of his that I've seen have used the same approach and all were good recordings with decent mics.

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