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  1. #81
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0 2339 View Post
    i still think attenuator is the way to go, it's not more work than hooking up an fx pedal + with an attenuator that let's you choose input impedence you will be able to play any amp at bedroom levels. even a 5watt tube amp is plenty loud if you drive it hard so it might not be ideal for home use either. and you mentioned you wanna use a 12" exclusively.... another thing to consider is that a 5 watt tube amp will probably not hang clean with a drummer... depending on the style you play of course. that brings you back to the likes of 2x6v6/el84 and so on amps and back to definitely too loud for home use... so one last time this brings us back to an attenuator or any of the before mentioned ss/modeling/hybrid amps...

    any decent amp tech should be able to install an onboard attenuator to your amps... which is probably more expensive than a good outboard unit.

    and once more - play as many amps as you can, nothing else is a substitute for experience, not even all the well meaning replies on a forum...
    IMO a load box is a much better alternative. As me Dad always says "The RIGHT tool for the right job, knucklehead.".
    https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...tt+bedroom+amp


  2. #82
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    So I have a rivera rockcrusher recording which works both as an attenuator and a load box--

    I literally just got home from a hellish day at work and I'm playing my les paul into my Matchless into the the rivera with the XLR out put going to my mixer to my DAW and headphones. people are sleeping in the house

    I DO have one of the new Universal Audio Ox on order as well. I'm not sure how it will compare to the Two notes but has similar interface with an iPAD doing speaker sim w pictures, changing room size

    I do believe the future is now. recording guitar gonna be done like this with these load boxes with simulators. of course not always-- but its getting really good

    I gotta think the new UA OX is killer

  3. #83
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    I want 12 minutes of my life back! (Skip the first 5 at least)!

    Actually this is awesome! Now, I don't NEED it as my Torpedo does the same thing and I CAN run an attenuator after it, but as it is UA I might just 'go there' anyway! What an awesome piece of kit! AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them). Why did I put that all in caps? I have no clue! But I still insist that an attenuator is what you want when you just need to use say a 20 watt amp driven to distortion in a medium sized club. Use it on the same amp in a small club and it will sound like ass. Now I have trained mine (ass) to be very tuneful (with dietary restrictions) but attenuators are only wonderful in a somewhat limited range. If you used the load portion on the 20 watt and went through the PA your prayers are answered.

    Do to what I was schooled on with the speaker efficiencies there is obviously even more to examine here. But at least there is still some awesome innovation at work here!

    Here is another (better IMO) vid. They unashamedly COPIED the Torpedo! But added an attenuator. And $300.



    P.P.S. I'm not sure about the wifi instead of wired or bluetooth. Do you have to use your own router at a gig or the venues wifi? I'm seeing a chink in the armor...
    Last edited by renderit; Yesterday at 08:09 AM.


  4. #84
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    I want 12 minutes of my life back! (Skip the first 5 at least)!

    Actually this is awesome! Now, I don't NEED it as my Torpedo does the same thing and I CAN run an attenuator after it, but as it is UA I might just 'go there' anyway! What an awesome piece of kit! AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them). Why did I put that all in caps? I have no clue! But I still insist that an attenuator is what you want when you just need to use say a 20 watt amp driven to distortion in a medium sized club. Use it on the same amp in a small club and it will sound like ass. Now I have trained mine (ass) to be very tuneful (with dietary restrictions) but attenuators are only wonderful in a somewhat limited range. If you used the load portion on the 20 watt and went through the PA your prayers are answered.

    Do to what I was schooled on with the speaker efficiencies there is obviously even more to examine here. But at least there is still some awesome innovation at work here!

    Here is another (better IMO) vid. They unashamedly COPIED the Torpedo! But added an attenuator. And $300.



    P.P.S. I'm not sure about the wifi instead of wired or bluetooth. Do you have to use your own router at a gig or the venues wifi? I'm seeing a chink in the armor...
    Ren I THOUGHT you'd be intrigued by this. BTW the fact that you simply cannot get one right now (I've pre ordered thru sweet water and I think its a couple months wait now) suggests they are pretty sweet

    Totally agree they stole Two notes whole thing... but doesn't the Two notes STUDIO also have the attenuator-- and its more than the Ox

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...xoC0CkQAvD_BwE

    I also think the ROOM dial is really interesting. Check this one out



    NO CHINK IN THE ARMOR (that sounds racist btw. I believe some people are offended by that word. Sorry. had to)

    The connection between your iOS and the box can be done either by its OWN built in wifi hotspot (so you don't need external network)-- you just see on your ipad or whatever the OX hot spot in the wireless network

    OR

    you can connect using an external network.

  5. #85
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    I want 12 minutes of my life back! (Skip the first 5 at least)!

    Actually this is awesome! Now, I don't NEED it as my Torpedo does the same thing and I CAN run an attenuator after it, but as it is UA I might just 'go there' anyway! What an awesome piece of kit! AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them). Why did I put that all in caps? I have no clue! But I still insist that an attenuator is what you want when you just need to use say a 20 watt amp driven to distortion in a medium sized club. Use it on the same amp in a small club and it will sound like ass. Now I have trained mine (ass) to be very tuneful (with dietary restrictions) but attenuators are only wonderful in a somewhat limited range. If you used the load portion on the 20 watt and went through the PA your prayers are answered.

    Do to what I was schooled on with the speaker efficiencies there is obviously even more to examine here. But at least there is still some awesome innovation at work here!

    Here is another (better IMO) vid. They unashamedly COPIED the Torpedo! But added an attenuator. And $300.



    P.P.S. I'm not sure about the wifi instead of wired or bluetooth. Do you have to use your own router at a gig or the venues wifi? I'm seeing a chink in the armor...
    I thought you'd be intrigued by this one!

    I think its going to be great. Very hard to find. I think with a preorder its gonna be a few months

    Agree they stole the Two notes thing! and Two notes does have the Studio-- which has a built in attenuator as well tho right?

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...BoCMEoQAvD_BwE

    I think the ROOM dial is going to also be really cool-- check this one!



    no chink in the armor. I looked at the manual and it has its OWN wifi network that you will see on your ipad wireless networks so you can connect directly OR if you have a strong wifi network at home you can use an external one to communicate

    let me know when you have ordered yours!

  6. #86

    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0 2339 View Post
    play as many amps as you can, nothing else is a substitute for experience, not even all the well meaning replies on a forum...
    Easier said than done. I went to 4 major stores here in NJ and their Brand selection is beyond pathetic.

    However, I did get to try a few:
    Marshall DSL5CR
    Marshall DSL20HR
    Boss Katana 50 - 50/25/0.5
    Vox AC15C1
    Vox AC10C1
    Vox AC4C1
    Fender Pro Junior IV
    Fender Blues Junior III
    Fender Bassbreaker 15
    Bugera V22 Infinium
    Orange Amplification Rocker 15
    Blackstar HT1R
    Blackstar HT5R

    Of these, the only ones that I liked so far is the Blackstar's.

  7. #87
    All Access/Backstage Pass Progrocker111's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    [COLOR=#00ff00][SIZE=3][FONT=comic sans ms]AS LONG AS YOU REALIZE THAT USING THE ATTENUATOR BY NECESSITY IS NOT GOING TO SOUND AS GOOD THROUGH THE SPEAKERS (unless the load box puts the simulated distortion through them).
    Interesting device... Do you think this would handle fully cranked Hiwatt DR103 down to bedroom level? Or would the tone suffer too much with such heavy attenuation?
    My diagnosis is: Hiwatt and Norlinphilia


    1969 Gibson Les Paul Custom
    1972 Hiwatt DR103, 1972 Hiwatt SE4122

  8. #88
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Progrocker111 View Post
    Interesting device... Do you think this would handle fully cranked Hiwatt DR103 down to bedroom level? Or would the tone suffer too much with such heavy attenuation?
    I think it would work great

  9. #89
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Progrocker111 View Post
    Interesting device... Do you think this would handle fully cranked Hiwatt DR103 down to bedroom level? Or would the tone suffer too much with such heavy attenuation?
    YES because then you are not using the attenuation, but instead the LOAD side.

    In either case the attenuator is kinda just an attenuator. You can use it to take the amp from a large room to a small room while staying in the sweet spot. But at 'intimate' room settings there ain't one made that does not start sounding crappy. And I have several newer ones which claim the 'dynamic load' makes them better. They are, but not much.

    The Torpedo Live I have (not the Studio with the attenuator (which is kinda stupid naming as it should be the other way around!)) or the OX above will take up to 100 or 150 watts (I don't remember which) and turn it out to headphone volume if you like. I usually put it through my desktop and through the monitors. And yes, it sounds like me on a record or CD. If I want to sound like I'm in Carneige Hall I can do it. And the wife can be sleeping in the next room and it still sounds great. I use it on 50 watt amps a lot and my Bassman clones. I now have a Z-Matcher which lets me convert 2 to 16 ohm to an 8 ohm if I wish.

    And yes Pellman, I can adjust the size of the room on the Torpedo so they kinda copied it as well. But I like they way they did it on a dial. That makes it easier to throw it into the mix. But there is nothing on the OX that has not been done. I just like the manual interface features a bit better. But the Torpedo can be had around 800 bucks.


    Please follow my link above. This stuff is really getting interesting, but be careful. Torpedo has come out with a newer cheaper box, but it has severe limitations just like the Mesa Cab Clone. But they show you can get into load boxes around the $400 mark. The Live and the OX above have MANY more features which make them MUCH more flexible though so watch yourself.

    P.S. the only people who would be offended by the term above don't understand the meaning of the word as used which IS correct. I stand by it.


  10. #90
    Les Paul Forum Member Pellman73's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    YES because then you are not using the attenuation, but instead the LOAD side.

    In either case the attenuator is kinda just an attenuator. You can use it to take the amp from a large room to a small room while staying in the sweet spot. But at 'intimate' room settings there ain't one made that does not start sounding crappy. And I have several newer ones which claim the 'dynamic load' makes them better. They are, but not much.

    The Torpedo Live I have (not the Studio with the attenuator (which is kinda stupid naming as it should be the other way around!)) or the OX above will take up to 100 or 150 watts (I don't remember which) and turn it out to headphone volume if you like. I usually put it through my desktop and through the monitors. And yes, it sounds like me on a record or CD. If I want to sound like I'm in Carneige Hall I can do it. And the wife can be sleeping in the next room and it still sounds great. I use it on 50 watt amps a lot and my Bassman clones. I now have a Z-Matcher which lets me convert 2 to 16 ohm to an 8 ohm if I wish.

    And yes Pellman, I can adjust the size of the room on the Torpedo so they kinda copied it as well. But I like they way they did it on a dial. That makes it easier to throw it into the mix. But there is nothing on the OX that has not been done. I just like the manual interface features a bit better. But the Torpedo can be had around 800 bucks.


    Please follow my link above. This stuff is really getting interesting, but be careful. Torpedo has come out with a newer cheaper box, but it has severe limitations just like the Mesa Cab Clone. But they show you can get into load boxes around the $400 mark. The Live and the OX above have MANY more features which make them MUCH more flexible though so watch yourself.

    P.S. the only people who would be offended by the term above don't understand the meaning of the word as used which IS correct. I stand by it.
    totally agree that the studio should be called the live and the live the studio !!!

    Ps: I regretted making the joke a little but... just from the basic word play on "chink the the armor" is funny if we can go there. OBVIE the word can have two meanings. and if you take the one meaning and apply it to In the Armor it is funny. to me anyhow.... and I KNOW you like word play--(which leads me to what I want to know which is what he hell did you do for a living on this planet) -- If the world hadn't gone completely effing insane. What ever happened to Blazing Saddles and Mel Brooks. I think we were making some progress there....

  11. #91
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pellman73 View Post

    Ps: I regretted making the joke a little but... just from the basic word play on "chink the the armor" is funny if we can go there. OBVIE the word can have two meanings. and if you take the one meaning and apply it to In the Armor it is funny. to me anyhow.... and I KNOW you like word play--(which leads me to what I want to know which is what he hell did you do for a living on this planet) -- If the world hadn't gone completely effing insane. What ever happened to Blazing Saddles and Mel Brooks. I think we were making some progress there....


    I know you were joking. And yes, the world IS completely insane. Exactly what do these people think we do between the logs on our cabins. Stuff people in them? Learn your languages people, or be destined to sound more idiotic than eye...


  12. #92
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    I'm not in the least bit surprised at the technical knowledge of you geezers. This stuff is fascinating.

    The one thing that took me off 100 & 50 watters and the attendant volume problems , to the low watters was a matter of me having to keep things simple. I don't have the competencies to do otherwise.

    So as a personal observation, I'd rather run a 1/2 watter at full tilt, just a guitar and a cable, straight in. Than a much more powerful amp where I'm having to put some sort of sonic brake on, to make it usable in my personal environment.

    I even indulged myself in a pedal!!! Gad-bloody-zooks...that I also used as a quasi attenuation type thing...

    Here's the little thing that satisfied all my needs..nothing I've not shown before. The culmination of years and years of experimentation...and a lot of dead ends along the way.


    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  13. #93

    Re: Best Low Watt Tube Amp?

    I'm a little confused. If the amp is mic'd for performances and you've got your own floor monitor or IEM, what amp is not going to be loud enough to play over the drummer? It's not like you need to hear the sound coming directly from the amp's speaker...right?

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