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  1. #161
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator CDaughtry's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    There is more evidence now than when we discussed the guitar in that thread. We now see the serial number was recorded to a different instrument in the ledger (information provided by Eric I might add) which suggests it is not the real serial number to the guitar. Two peices of information raising the possibility of a refinished GT were an early number and brown filler. Neither were mentioned with the previous sale (along with unclear discrptions of replaced plastics) or maybe not even noticed. Both are discussed in Eric's thread along with the possible implications and possible explainations. Tell me, is there a real equivalence between the level of disclosure here?

    I will wait until you respond to Marlow since you appear to be ignoring me.

    You equate his musings on the MLP Forum as full disclosure? And if we mention the misdeeds of Detlef often enough, will that obfuscate the intentional vagueness of the Instagram advertisement I referenced earlier?

  2. #162
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator CDaughtry's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    I didn't take away that Eric was difinitive in his opinion.

    I undersood him to have thought it was "very probably" a refinished GT.

    As for "disclosure", you'd be hard pressed to find a guitar that's had more of its characteristics disclosed so publicly in such a short time.


    Are we really going to debate whether "definitively" and "very probably" are substantively significant to this discussion?

  3. #163
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post
    You equate his musings on the MLP Forum as full disclosure?
    Have you or someone you know acquired about the guitar and he didnt disclose that information?

    I would say the fact he posted that material using his real name in a public and searchable way is a form of disclosure. Would be certainly difficult to deny in court wouldnt it counselor? And far more than divlosed on the paper provided with the last sale.

  4. #164
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    My recollection was that the Marshall was part of the deal sold with the Conti guitar. Doesnt mater if it was a consignment. Then there is the issue of the explorer...
    Your recollection is wrong.
    It was not on consignment and it was not sold by Detlef/GuitarPoint [as admitted by the buyer].
    Pauls to the walls!

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  5. #165
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator CDaughtry's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    Have you or someone you know acquired about the guitar and he didnt disclose that information?

    I would say the fact he posted that material using his real name in a public and searchable way is a form of disclosure. Would be certainly difficult to deny in court wouldnt it counselor? And far more than divlosed on the paper provided with the last sale.
    There you go again, directing us back to the last misadventure. At least you're consistent.

  6. #166
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by F-Hole View Post
    Well, given you ask, it's you being dishonest Tom.

    Detlef (GuitarPoint) issued a receipt for the Marshall sale, a copy of which has been posted to this site.

    Next you'll be telling us that Detlef routinely issues receipts to customers for the sale of gear he doesn't own and hasn't sold.

    Get real.
    Greg Protic, the buyer of the Marshall amp has publicly stated he did not buy it from GuitarPoint. The person who actually did sell it has also stated the same.
    The receipt was not issued by Detlef, but instead by another employee while Detlef was away from the store. It was not written when the amp was sold.
    This was at the request of Greg. If Greg had asked Detlef for this receipt he would have been denied.
    Clever that Greg waited until Detlef was gone to request this. Was that at your urging?

    I have not been dishonest here today, but you certainly have.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

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  7. #167
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post
    There you go again, directing us back to the last misadventure. At least you're consistent.
    Fine. Ignore the last sentence. My statement directly addresses your point.

  8. #168
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Your recollection is wrong.
    It was not on consignment and it was not sold by Detlef/GuitarPoint [as admitted by the buyer].
    Explorer???

  9. #169
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Greg Protic, the buyer of the Marshall amp has publicly stated he did not buy it from GuitarPoint. The person who actually did sell it has also stated the same.
    The receipt was not issued by Detlef, but instead by another employee while Detlef was away from the store. It was not written when the amp was sold.
    This was at the request of Greg. If Greg had asked Detlef for this receipt he would have been denied.
    Clever that Greg waited until Detlef was gone to request this. Was that at your urging?

    I have not been dishonest here today, but you certainly have.
    Dude, you're tripping.
    The artist formerly known as "A-hole".



  10. #170
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    My recollection was that the Marshall was part of the deal sold with the Conti guitar. Doesnt mater if it was a consignment. Then there is the issue of the explorer...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Your recollection is wrong.
    It was not on consignment and it was not sold by Detlef/GuitarPoint [as admitted by the buyer].
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    Explorer???
    WTF are you talking about?!
    There's no explorer in your statement, that I replied to.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  11. #171
    Les Paul Forum Member jimmi's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    WTF are you talking about?!
    There's no explorer in your statement, that I replied to.
    Get your glasses checked and reread the last word of that you quoted in your post.

    i will make it easier for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    My recollection was that the Marshall was part of the deal sold with the Conti guitar. Doesnt mater if it was a consignment. Then there is the issue of the explorer...

  12. #172
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
    Get your glasses checked and reread the last word of that you quoted in your post.

    i will make it easier for you.
    Got it.

    My answer was exclusively about the Marshall.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  13. #173
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post
    There you go again, directing us back to the last misadventure. At least you're consistent.
    Hello
    Sorry to tag onto this post. I was at a guitar show in Ohio recently and a vendor there was displaying or selling a 1959 Les Paul Standard and your name came up regarding that particular guitar. Another vendor was playing and looking at it and your name came up if you have played it in the past. The other gentleman looking at it was asking if this guitar belonged to Dickie Betts and if it has doubled cream bobbins. The guitar appeared to have been refinished on the back and neck. Obvious headstock repair with an added volute. The case was well beat but had a couple bumper stickers with the state of Alabama on one of the stickers. Unfortunately I did not take any pics and the owner was in a hurry to get everything packed up. Do you recall this guitar? Just curious.

  14. #174
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    1960 - Emerald City - $198k


  15. #175
    Les Paul Forum Member Maxmc's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    1960 - Emerald City - $198k

    Shut up and take my money!

  16. #176
    Les Paul Forum Member Black58's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Ya know what I love most about this thread? The "other" Bursts; The ones that don't fit "the visual profile". Nice thread!

  17. #177
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxmc View Post
    Shut up and take my money!
    Something ain't right with the neck on that 1960 at Emerald City. It looks like a re-neck or something. That may be why it is priced on the low side.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  18. #178
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxmc View Post
    Binding looks really wide...

  19. #179

    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Linkage:

    http://www.emeraldcityguitars.com/pr...paul-standard/

    Headstock break/repair, refret, new nut, some finish "touch ups"

    No mention of the thick looking fingerboard binding.

    Rob
    -----------------
    Rob Livesey
    Manchester, UK

  20. #180
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by rob livesey View Post
    Linkage:

    http://www.emeraldcityguitars.com/pr...paul-standard/

    Headstock break/repair, refret, new nut, some finish "touch ups"

    No mention of the thick looking fingerboard binding.

    Rob
    Pretty light colored fretboard too.


  21. #181

    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Intonation looks like a struggle too ;)
    Billy said, "Let me out. I don't want to be anywhere near a fucking banjo."

  22. #182
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by britbender View Post
    Intonation looks like a struggle too ;)
    Changed tuners perhaps? Control cavity is a mess.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
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  23. #183
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    Control cavity is a mess.
    How so?
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  24. #184

    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by sws1 View Post
    Pretty light colored fretboard too.

    I've been looking at this guitar for a week and there's a lot that does not look right about this guitar. I would never say one way or the other without knowing the full story, because I hate when people do that, but this guitar looks like some sort of customshop conversion.

  25. #185
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    How so?
    The wiring harness looks to be buggered, especially the ground bus. Pickup solder connections appear to have been buggered. Astron caps in 1960?
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  26. #186

    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by CDaughtry View Post
    This morning, Eric texted me and asked me "Charlie...what would you like me to disclose?"

    Here's my answer:

    Many consider Eric's opinion, on all things vintage, to be the gospel. In the Detlef bashing thread, despite many suggesting that this could have very well been a burst, Eric vehemently insisted it was a Goldtop. In that thread, it served his purposes, for the sake of the Detlef bashing, to say it was a Goldtop, because that made Detlef's "misrepresentations" to the kid more egregious.

    Now...when Eric lists it for sale, he says "This might be the first opportunity some of you fellow guitar geeks might get at owning an elusive Burst. Since it is a refin., it will be less than half of the typical $250k+ entry fee!!!"

    I take that to mean that it can be bought in the 100k to 125k range. That's mint Goldtop money, not a realistic price for a Goldtop that has been refinished 6 times.

    To specifically answer his question of "What would you like me to disclose?" My answer is, advertise it as a refinned Goldtop (which was his adamant opinion). He could then say, "But I could be wrong, and if I am, and it started out as a burst, you're getting a good deal!"




    Weren't we all demanding full and complete disclosure in the Detlef thread? Should the same not apply to Eric?

    I know the exact guitar your speaking of, refinished six times, I played it at the last guitar show. One of the strangest encounters I've had, When I inquired what it was I never got an official answer. My buddy asked me what guitar I was playing, I said I was "looking at a 58 burst... I think" very odd encounter. Very evasive answers

  27. #187
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall1987 View Post
    The wiring harness looks to be buggered, especially the ground bus. Pickup solder connections appear to have been buggered. Astron caps in 1960?
    Well, the Astrons are used in 1960 on and off, but my 60 looks like a better wiring job.



    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  28. #188
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    I didn't know Astrons were used in 1960.

    But you're right about the neatness of the wiring harness in your 1960 vs. the Emerald City 1960.

    In that guitar I noted the errant tailpiece ground wire which is placed over the top of the black plastic tube containing the output jack wire. Also there is an extra ground wire installed between the rhythm pickup volume pot and the center lug of the treble pickup tone pot. I don't believe Gibson wired them like that back in the day.

    The pots and caps may be all original to the guitar, however, the harness and solder shows evidence of tampering. Which makes one suspect the pickups (double black and a double white according to the Emerald City video) may have been swapped or removed at one time.

    I can't get over the funky neck binding! What's the story on that? The guitar does have a nicely figured maple top.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  29. #189
    Les Paul Forum Member JJ Blair's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    The binding bugs me, but so does the fret board. It's been rebound for sure, but that board feels off.

  30. #190
    Les Paul Forum Member Rev.WillieVK's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Board planed and re-bound by Gruhn after planing messed up original binding.

  31. #191
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev.WillieVK View Post
    Board planed and re-bound by Gruhn after planing messed up original binding.
    why would Gruhn's techs rebind it so obviously wrong ??

  32. #192
    Les Paul Forum Member JJ Blair's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev.WillieVK View Post
    Board planed and re-bound by Gruhn after planing messed up original binding.
    Well, not only was it planed badly (you can see scars), they shaved down the sides to accommodate a wide binding, rather than shaping the binding properly.

  33. #193
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ Blair View Post
    Well, not only was it planed badly (you can see scars), they shaved down the sides to accommodate a wide binding, rather than shaping the binding properly.
    That being the case, you would think the seller would disclose all repairs to the neck, and the additional "fubars" already noted. Clearly there is more going on than a new nut, headstock break, and re-fret.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

    Sir Frank Crisp
    Friar Park
    London, England

  34. #194
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    I own a 57 Harmony archtop with Rosewood fretboard. The Rosewood is super dark. Much much darker than the pic above. Rosewood seems to darken a bit after 50 or 60 years. Maybe it darkens from the reapplications of oil over time or maybe oil from hands accumulates in the grain. Old Rosewood is very dark.

  35. #195
    Les Paul Forum Member Black58's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    I own a 57 Harmony archtop with Rosewood fretboard. The Rosewood is super dark. Much much darker than the pic above. Rosewood seems to darken a bit after 50 or 60 years. Maybe it darkens from the reapplications of oil over time or maybe oil from hands accumulates in the grain. Old Rosewood is very dark.
    There are light-colored rosewood boards like that out there; And even lighter!. They're not common, but they are out there. .. WEIRD looking!

  36. #196
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Black58 View Post
    There are light-colored rosewood boards like that out there; And even lighter!. They're not common, but they are out there. .. WEIRD looking!
    That fretboard looks sanded thus reveling lighter fresh wood. Looks like its had a refret too. Sanded Rosewood is lighter. 60 yr old Rosewood is darker now than it was in the 1950s. Oil and nicotine accumulates over the many decades

  37. #197
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Not always.

  38. #198
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Not always.
    You are now on my ignore list. Go find a tree to argue with.

  39. #199
    Les Paul Forum Member Black58's Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Not always.
    Exactly.

  40. #200
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: Current bursts for sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentar View Post
    You are now on my ignore list. Go find a tree to argue with.
    Bwahahaha

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