Sad Days At Heritage Guitars

deytookerjaabs · Feb 24, 2018

A while back the company was sold and along came a foreign investor after that pumping in money for factory expansion & renovations. Now, after training the new hires they've let go all the seasoned guitar builders while "postponing" production on most of the high end time consuming models (carved archtops).

I guess this is expected, but RIP the old Heritage where there was no management, no marketing, no sales force, no brand protection and just fantastic high spec'd guitars at comparably incredible prices.

Of course these moves were made in order to build less guitars to "improve quality" and thus dealers & management are now saying the quality of the past wasn't up to par. Well.....yeah...

ourmaninthenorth · Feb 24, 2018

deytookerjaabs said:
A while back the company was sold and along came a foreign investor after that pumping in money for factory expansion & renovations. Now, after training the new hires they've let go all the seasoned guitar builders while "postponing" production on most of the high end time consuming models (carved archtops).

I guess this is expected, but RIP the old Heritage where there was no management, no marketing, no sales force, no brand protection and just fantastic high spec'd guitars at comparably incredible prices.

Of course these moves were made in order to build less guitars to "improve quality" and thus dealers & management are now saying the quality of the past wasn't up to par. Well.....yeah...

All those craftsmen's skills, gone, in the blink of an eye.

When did all this shit start making sense? Cos I just don't get it.

:dang

deytookerjaabs · Feb 24, 2018

Good news is that some of the old guard is still around, Jay Wolfe is a dealer so take his statements at that, but this is his response:

As Heritage’s largest worldwide Customer/Dealer I was alarmed upon hearing they’d let go a dozen employees. The rumors are flying. So, I reached out to find out what’s up. I listened to explanations from Jim Duerloo, Archie Leach. They are OK with what has transpired and see no serious problem with continued Guitar building going forward. Jim felt they had way too many people anyway and Archie pointed out that the remaining shop staff is double what it was when he acquired the Company.

My observation is from a guy that receives and inspects more Heritages than anyone else, and what I’m witnessing is quite different than what some understandably unhappy former workers are saying. They’re saying that the new guys are lowering QC standards, but this is exactly opposite of what the new folks say and do. Heritage always made a solid and toneful Gibson style instrument BUT the fit, finish & especially the setups would vary from just pretty Okay to awful. These “old Gibson habits” and standards are a long standing and well known Kalamazoo standard. Wolfe Guitars has suffered with this shoddy Gibson style finishing for 3 decades and we learned early on to either return them or deal with it. We became really adept at correcting the many Kalamazoo glitches.

When Mr. Leach took over he vowed to do better, and he has repeated this mantra to me so many times. Has he delivered? YES, in a big way. Since he’s taken over we’ve seem BIG improvements in the new “bone” nut, vastly improved setup, vastly improved finish, and hardware fit. Still solid-toneful Gibson style instruments BUT they now look and play WAY better than before. WAY BETTER! Heritage are now delivering the absolutely finest Guitars ever, and no one knows this better than I.

So, why release a dozen workers? Archie has partnered with a large worldwide distribution Company- Bandlab, and those guys “insist” the QC MUST be even better! Archie agrees and told me the long time workers have resisted the changes and continued their old ways. This is unfortunate, but I support their herculean effort to make the “best Guitars to ever come from Kalamazoo.” Am I concerned? Just a bit, as I’ve seen the results of their efforts, and I believe they’ll get the job done. I will say this- the last few Guitars we’ve received are truly the finest I’ve ever seen & played from Kalamazoo, so the proof is here in my shop for anyone to see & play. Their intentions are good, so I will give them a chance and I hope you will too.

Sincerely,
Jay Wolfe, WOLFE GUITARS, Jupiter, Florida-USA

Cogswell · Feb 24, 2018

Does this mean they're going to change that fugly headstock?

renderit · Feb 24, 2018

Cogswell said:
Does this mean they're going to change that fugly headstock?

I'm feeling a bit pinched today...

0 2339 · Feb 25, 2018

Cogswell said:
... fugly headstock?

amen brother!

deytookerjaabs · Feb 25, 2018

Cogswell said:
Does this mean they're going to change that fugly headstock?

renderit said:
I'm feeling a bit pinched today...

0 2339 said:
amen brother!

Awe, you guys hurt Lloyd Loars feelings:

Cogswell · Feb 26, 2018

DANG
Now that seems to work on this guitar

Xpensive Wino · Mar 15, 2018

Ran across this related rant recently:

Perhaps the largest structural economic crisis — one that encompasses everything else from outsourcing to stagnant wages to the environment — is the decades-long epidemic of cheap crap.

"This is why we can't have nice things" is a cliché that has lost its meaning. The reason we can't have nice things in 2018 is that we don't want them.

Think about the last pair of socks you purchased. Unless you spent upwards of $25 on them, they were probably made of Chinese acrylic. Getting them on your toes resembled an attempt to strangle a zebra with a sandwich bag. And afterward you couldn't shake the feeling that your feet were encased in a substance not unlike paint. They probably had a hole in them after a single wear. But, hey, who could pass up 12 pairs for $12 with shipping?

In Michigan a small company engaged in making guitars by hand according to traditional methods was recently acquired by a gang of venture capitalist bros. The new management decided to fire much of the staff and insist that in the future their "handmade" guitars be manufactured with computer-guided machines. They dumped several million dollars into remodeling the workshop as an Instagrammable tourist "experience" and partnered with Rolling Stone LLC to "incorporate a wealth of music and pop culture into the renovation," whatever that means. Heritage Guitar used to be a place where skilled tradesmen made beautiful objects.

Now it's going to be one more destination where people can gawk at screen exhibits and eat bad overpriced branded meals — imagine the $17 Jimi Hendrix Psychedelic Mushroom Burgers, the $12 side of Van Morrison "Sweet Thing" Potato Fries — and buy merchandise direct from sweatshops. Robot-guided tours, consultant-designed menus, officially licensed T-shirts: This is rock and roll, baby.

Examples like this can be multiplied infinitely. Appliances are cheaper than ever and do 500 different things — tell you what time it is, glow a luminous blue, allow you to write computer coded schedules into them — except what they are meant to. Trying to figure out how to make a pot of coffee after the LED screen went out on a friend's $40 machine recently reminded me how glad I am to own an old-fashioned one-button Bunn. Yes, it cost me $170. No, it does not double as an entertainment device, unless you get your jollies by listening to the sound of water percolating. But it will serve for longer than I have been alive.

Most would rather have junk, though. Given a choice between purchasing a handful of moderately expensive items and buying replaceable crap whenever they want — and probably having it shipped rather than entering a store — people will choose the latter unless they are very rich. Luxury goods are now the only way around the cheap stuff quandary. It's fine that very nice things exist and that some people can afford them. What's crazy is expanding the definition of a luxury to include things like socks made of actual wool rather than plastic or a flip-phone whose battery lasts for more than five hours.

It might be impossible to purchase a pair of trousers that last more than a year, but you can buy five of them for roughly the same portion of your income that one would have cost in 1950. Never mind that this is because they are made of cheap material by people who are treated little better than slaves. Out of sight, out of mind.

What is the solution to the cheap stuff crisis? The first step is to hasten the end of an arrangement in which it's possible for our companies to rely upon cheap foreign labor. This would involve forcing corporations that do business abroad to adhere to the same labor standards they would abide by if they were making things at home. In practice, at least at first, the result would be the same, though: Companies would decide that having a union workforce is not really such a bad arrangement after all.

Increasing labor costs would in turn mean that prices would go up. People would have no choice but to buy fewer things. If you're only purchasing one tenth as many socks or buying a toaster that costs at least slightly more than an actual slice of toast at a fashionable brunch spot, you're going to insist on quality. Companies will have to deliver.

Finally, it's absolutely necessary to prosecute out of existence corporations like Apple whose business models depend upon a strategy of planned obsolescence. There is no reason that a telephone should not be made to last 15 or 20 years. The corded landline in the basement at my parents' house is older than I am. (Try talking on one of these sometime: You will be amazed that it is possible that a call could sound so clear.) Nerds will whine about the all-consuming importance of the new features they are missing out on, but their appetites are debased and unsustainable.

Our great-grandchildren will thank us when they do not inhabit a world that looks like Pixar's Wall-E because we felt the need to throw our supposedly outmoded gadgets in the trash every other year.

This all might sound radical but really it isn't. The end of cheap stuff would simply be a return to the way that people lived and consumed things within living memory. It would be more ethical, more environmentally sound, and less ugly. It would also be better for our feet.

http://theweek.com/articles/759271/americas-junk-epidemic

Cogswell · Mar 15, 2018

My socks are actually pretty good. They were cheap & plentiful

S a m · Mar 15, 2018

deytookerjaabs said:
Awe, you guys hurt Lloyd Loars feelings:

Cogswell said:
DANG
Now that seems to work on this guitar

That headstock is why Gibson pushes so hard on copycats.

When Hamer used that headstock Gibson declined to enforce its rights to it. Hamer became part of Kaman. Kaman became part of Fender MIC. There was the situation that Gibson wants least: Gibson's arch-rival had bullet-proof legal rights to one of the most attractive variants of Gibson's most essential intellectual property.

Copyright / trademark / patent: A right with an attached obligation to protect that right. Use it or lose it.

Scuba200ft · Jun 18, 2020

I was not a fan of Heritage in the past. I just wasn’t impressed by ones I had owned and played in the mid 90’s up until I just gave up on them in maybe 2002. They just had a bad feel, to me. Fast forward to last week. I ran across one of their artisan aged h150 in lemon fade on a dealer site. I thought, what the hell. It looks good but if I don't like it I’ll just send it back.

In the span of a week, I now own an H150, an H530 and tomorrow I have an H535 inbound. ( actually two, a red and a,black) All artisan aged.

I am floored by them.

I own 2 60th LP’s, a 68 re-issue custom, a real 68 custom, a 1956 junior, a 1965 sg junior, a Bryan ray 62 sg a 64 standard Sg, a 63 les paul Sg, an historic 61 es335, a rusty Anderson es.... on and on...you get the point.

How good are the 2 New heritage I have here? I am replacing my Gibson historics one by one With them. NONE of the historics I own or have owned feel and play like these. 1 minute with the H530 was all it took. I threw a V7 bigsby on the H150 last night, it’s an instant favorite. I’ll get another and leave it stock.

I REALLY didn’t like heritage in the past. That horrible tailpiece. Stiff feeling. Crappy fretwork. Blah neck.

These aren’t that. These are absolutely perfect. Not Collings sterile perfect. Perfect vintage feel and vibe. Whatever they changed, they nailed it.

jrgtr42 · Jun 19, 2020

Scuba200ft said:
I was not a fan of Heritage in the past. I just wasn’t impressed by ones I had owned and played in the mid 90’s up until I just gave up on them in maybe 2002. They just had a bad feel, to me. Fast forward to last week. I ran across one of their artisan aged h150 in lemon fade on a dealer site. I thought, what the hell. It looks good but if I don't like it I’ll just send it back.

In the span of a week, I now own an H150, an H530 and tomorrow I have an H535 inbound. ( actually two, a red and a,black) All artisan aged.

I am floored by them.

I own 2 60th LP’s, a 68 re-issue custom, a real 68 custom, a 1956 junior, a 1965 sg junior, a Bryan ray 62 sg a 64 standard Sg, a 63 les paul Sg, an historic 61 es335, a rusty Anderson es.... on and on...you get the point.

How good are the 2 New heritage I have here? I am replacing my Gibson historics one by one With them. NONE of the historics I own or have owned feel and play like these. 1 minute with the H530 was all it took. I threw a V7 bigsby on the H150 last night, it’s an instant favorite. I’ll get another and leave it stock.

I REALLY didn’t like heritage in the past. That horrible tailpiece. Stiff feeling. Crappy fretwork. Blah neck.

These aren’t that. These are absolutely perfect. Not Collings sterile perfect. Perfect vintage feel and vibe. Whatever they changed, they nailed it.

I have an H150, 1998. I picked it up used in about 2000 or so.
At the time, it was at a Guitar Center (before they became the monolith they are now) but they weren't a Gibson dealer for a while.
That store had a deal with another local dealer to get used Gibsons in, so this one was sitting alongside a dozen plus LPs, from 58 and 59 reissues (those all played like utter crap) to 70s and 80s Standards and deluxes, and an early 90s or two.
This one blew them all away, from sound and playabilty to attention to detail in construction.
The only thing I wish is that it was a couple pounds lighter - it's pushing 11, so it's rough on the back after a while.

deytookerjaabs · Jun 19, 2020

Scuba200ft said:
I was not a fan of Heritage in the past. I just wasn’t impressed by ones I had owned and played in the mid 90’s up until I just gave up on them in maybe 2002. They just had a bad feel, to me. Fast forward to last week. I ran across one of their artisan aged h150 in lemon fade on a dealer site. I thought, what the hell. It looks good but if I don't like it I’ll just send it back.

In the span of a week, I now own an H150, an H530 and tomorrow I have an H535 inbound. ( actually two, a red and a,black) All artisan aged.

I am floored by them.

I own 2 60th LP’s, a 68 re-issue custom, a real 68 custom, a 1956 junior, a 1965 sg junior, a Bryan ray 62 sg a 64 standard Sg, a 63 les paul Sg, an historic 61 es335, a rusty Anderson es.... on and on...you get the point.

How good are the 2 New heritage I have here? I am replacing my Gibson historics one by one With them. NONE of the historics I own or have owned feel and play like these. 1 minute with the H530 was all it took. I threw a V7 bigsby on the H150 last night, it’s an instant favorite. I’ll get another and leave it stock.

I REALLY didn’t like heritage in the past. That horrible tailpiece. Stiff feeling. Crappy fretwork. Blah neck.

These aren’t that. These are absolutely perfect. Not Collings sterile perfect. Perfect vintage feel and vibe. Whatever they changed, they nailed it.

When I think of ye olde Heritage before the move/renovation/trimming my sights are set on all the 50+ or so carved top models you could custom spec on a whim at fantastic prices. Everything from the Henry Johnson to the Super Eagle to the ghost built D'Angelicos etc etc etc. I've played many of them and a whole lot are just fantastic. I did however have an '89 H-150 that was a ****ing beast, bought it when they were peanuts on the used market before Ebay really took off.

I've played some of the new artisan aged guitars. Really nice stuff, the aging looks pretty Gibson-ish though which by that I mean completely not convincing in any way. Great guitars nonetheless as the company is focused much more on the mainstream stuff these days.

rockabilly69 · Jun 23, 2020

deytookerjaabs said:
When I think of ye olde Heritage before the move/renovation/trimming my sights are set on all the 50+ or so carved top models you could custom spec on a whim at fantastic prices. Everything from the Henry Johnson to the Super Eagle to the ghost built D'Angelicos etc etc etc. I've played many of them and a whole lot are just fantastic. I did however have an '89 H-150 that was a ****ing beast, bought it when they were peanuts on the used market before Ebay really took off.

I've played some of the new artisan aged guitars. Really nice stuff, the aging looks pretty Gibson-ish though which by that I mean completely not convincing in any way. Great guitars nonetheless as the company is focused much more on the mainstream stuff these days.

I like what the new guard is doing, there are 3 H150s in Utah right now at different stores and they are all GREAT guitars. None of them with the crappy fretwork that has plagued almost every guitar that came out of Heritage that I played before the change. And I've played a ton! Both of my H150s needed extensive fretwork but now they are great. The neck shape was a fuller medium Cwhich I liked. One thing I noticed though, all of the new H150s are a bit on the heavy side, not Norlin heavy, but not Historic light either. Mid to high 9lb range. I don't care for aging so I won't make a comment there.

mineland2 · Jun 27, 2020

Scuba200ft said:
I was not a fan of Heritage in the past. I just wasn’t impressed by ones I had owned and played in the mid 90’s up until I just gave up on them in maybe 2002. They just had a bad feel, to me. Fast forward to last week. I ran across one of their artisan aged h150 in lemon fade on a dealer site. I thought, what the hell. It looks good but if I don't like it I’ll just send it back.

In the span of a week, I now own an H150, an H530 and tomorrow I have an H535 inbound. ( actually two, a red and a,black) All artisan aged.

I am floored by them.

I own 2 60th LP’s, a 68 re-issue custom, a real 68 custom, a 1956 junior, a 1965 sg junior, a Bryan ray 62 sg a 64 standard Sg, a 63 les paul Sg, an historic 61 es335, a rusty Anderson es.... on and on...you get the point.

How good are the 2 New heritage I have here? I am replacing my Gibson historics one by one With them. NONE of the historics I own or have owned feel and play like these. 1 minute with the H530 was all it omegle took. I threw a V7 bigsby on the H150 last night, it’s an instant favorite. I’ll get another and leave it stock.

I REALLY didn’t like heritage in the past. That horrible tailpiece. Stiff feeling. Crappy fretwork. Blah neck.

These aren’t that. These are absolutely perfect. Not Collings sterile perfect. Perfect vintage feel and vibe. Whatever they changed, they nailed it.

They weren't a Gibson dealer for a while.
That store had a deal with another local dealer to get used Gibsons in, so this one was sitting alongside a dozen plus LPs, from 58 and 59 reissues

Dave P · Jun 28, 2020

I've owned a handful of older Heritage guitars, and worked on a few. The fretwork and setups on them were mediocre at best. These days there isn't any excuse to put out a crappy playing guitar, when so many other companies put out stuff that plays amazing right out of the box.

Tim · Jun 28, 2020

Heritage sues Gibson for harassment.

RocknRollShakeUp · Jun 28, 2020

Tim said:
Heritage sues Gibson for harassment.

I love Gibson guitars, although I’ve had a couple with some QC issues, and I don’t own a Heritage but I think they are cool guitars. The Headstock is ok, could be better, but I saw one with a bound headstock, it was a black beauty, and it looked very nice...

I don’t know what I’m trying to say, but I did want to indeed say that Heritage suing Gibson for harassment just feels right at this point. :hank

Sad Days At Heritage Guitars

deytookerjaabs

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ourmaninthenorth

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Cogswell

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renderit

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0 2339

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Xpensive Wino

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