Upgrades & Values

Rayvyn · Feb 14, 2018

Do upgrades lessen the value on R9 historics? Got some vintage bees and some Wizz pickups for my 2009 50th R9 but I’m wondering what others think about these types of upgrades? I would of course keep all the original parts to include if I ever sell it.

Tim Plains · Feb 14, 2018

Vintage parts should up the value but you're always better off returning it to stock and selling the other parts separately unless you find someone specifically looking for a 2009 with Wizz and vintage Bees. Those pickups won't add much.

One thing to consider is a potentially smaller buyer pool if have a gold COA 50th. A diehard collector looking for an unmodified guitar wouldn't even consider it. I've been through it, and yes, as silly as it sounds, non-original solder joints are a deal breaker for some people.

Having said that, I have Wizz PAFs in two guitars and I absolutely love them.

vintage58 · Feb 19, 2018

Rayvyn said:
Do upgrades lessen the value on R9 historics?

"Upgrade" is itself an almost entirely subjective term, so the question of "Do upgrades lessen value" is largely, IMO, a "Depends on who you ask"–type question.

For example, a guitar dealer will, wherever possible, refer to any modification made by a previous owner, as an "upgrade." But originality (and, to a similar extent, condition) is king. So, I think *any* change made to a guitar — i.e., good or bad — reduces that guitar's originality either way. Alternately stated, one person's "upgrade" might double as another person's reason to cringe.

As for myself, if I see *anything* changed on a used reissue, I generally lose interest unless there's some truly unique thing about the guitar (e.g., incredible top) that cannot readily be found in another roughly equivalent guitar.

My $0.02... YMMV.

Fan of LP · Feb 19, 2018

I second the post above. Whenever I read an ad that claims that a guitar has been upgraded with these and those parts, I think to myself: not an upgrade, just changed parts.

tripletime · Feb 20, 2018

I will buy those nasty Wizz pups from you

send me a PM

CuseFan559 · Feb 25, 2018

Would having original 50's PAF's and electronics increase the value of a reissue? I've seen some older prehistoric RI's with vintage electronics going for close to real vintage prices.

Big Al · Feb 26, 2018

I won't pay for somebody elses idea of an upgrade.

El Gringo · Feb 26, 2018

Big Al said:
I won't pay for somebody elses idea of an upgrade.

I like how you think .

renderit · Feb 26, 2018

Big Al said:
I won't pay for somebody elses idea of an upgrade.

That is only because youse have not seed MY idea of an upgrade! I call it the "Ren-Grade©™℞"! Coming soooon to a threads near you.

clearmudd · Feb 26, 2018

I don't sell anything or trade up,......everything i have is to keep..........though i like to keep them as original as possible (OCD like that).....and i won't buy nothing but all original (as possible as we know knobs break and jack plates crack and so on).....Even reversible mods i find revolting......That's just me.... It doesn't lessen the value FOR ME, it makes it valueless.:salude

renderit · Feb 26, 2018

Do you take the wrapping off your toilet seat?

Uncle Gary · Feb 26, 2018

renderit said:
Do you take the wrapping off your toilet seat?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

clearmudd · Feb 26, 2018

renderit said:
Do you take the wrapping off your toilet seat?

Are we talking about toilets or Historic LPs, I actually change the strings (I'm a little OCD about that too). But if your into reselling toilet seats, I would certainly want the original packaging intact and in unused condition. I'm sure Ren you like your toilet seat covers used and with all the patina that it has acquired.

renderit · Feb 27, 2018

clearmudd said:
Are we talking about toilets or Historic LPs, I actually change the strings (I'm a little OCD about that too). But if your into reselling toilet seats, I would certainly want the original packaging intact and in unused condition. I'm sure Ren you like your toilet seat covers used and with all the patina that it has acquired.

Actually I am currently into the "vintage Route 66" gas station variety! MmmmmmMm!

But you are right. My true answer to the question is: I am not above modding one, but when buying I wish to be able to turn it back into the "original from Gibson" setup. As long as the parts are there it would not bother me. I would prefer they removed the pots setup as untouched as possible and put new pots in it as I don't like too many solder jobs on pots.

And Clearmudd; thank you for being patient with my infantile mind. "I jes cayn't HEP meself" at times...

BIG Dave · Feb 27, 2018

A seller will refer to changes as upgrades. A buyer will either look at changes as upgrades or mods. Experience has shown me that there will be a lot more potential buyers if the guitar is advertised as “totally stock”. I only have three Historics (2002 R8, 2003 R9 BRZ and 2014 R8). Only the 2002 is modded (real ‘61 PAF’s, pots, NOS caps, plastic and tuners). My 2003 and 2014 are staying 100% stock. (Which reminds me I should start selling off all my aftermarket pickups).

TM1 · Feb 27, 2018

I would think that Kim LeFleur's "Historic Makeovers" would increase the value of any Historic!

clearmudd · Feb 27, 2018

renderit said:
Actually I am currently into the "vintage Route 66" gas station variety! MmmmmmMm!

But you are right. My true answer to the question is: I am not above modding one, but when buying I wish to be able to turn it back into the "original from Gibson" setup. As long as the parts are there it would not bother me. I would prefer they removed the pots setup as untouched as possible and put new pots in it as I don't like too many solder jobs on pots.

And Clearmudd; thank you for being patient with my infantile mind. "I jes cayn't HEP meself" at times...

It's all good Mr Ren, my sarcasm is just not as colorful as yours.

eace2

Big Al · Feb 27, 2018

TM1 said:
I would think that Kim LeFleur's "Historic Makeovers" would increase the value of any Historic!

Not for me, Don. Though HM offers a neat way to modify and personalize a guitar for someone's ideal fantasy Lester, I find most aren't mine. Despite the hype and hoopla associated with this "improvement" the examples I have compared to mine did not play or sound better than my well chose stock guitars.

I am not interested in a Gibson that has been disassembled, neck removed and reshaped fingerboard replaced along with frets, binding, inlays, nut not to mention exaggerated top carves and complete refin makes for something where the Gibson has mostly been removed.

Fact is refinished highly modded guitars always lose value compared to stock versions. Look at 70's Norlins, clean original examples sell fast, for top dollar. Modded refinished ones are harder sell and much less dough.

Regardless how well HM mods a Les Paul, it's real value is to the original owner. I've seen many used makeover Les Pauls sit forever, as the price falls and falls. Whether you feel it is an improvement isn't the issue. They have to find a buyer who finds all of it to their own liking, and be willing to pay for it, a small pool to draw from.

I haven't seen many recoup the investment and I don't see a long term interest in used makeover guitars at premium prices among most buyers.

Dchaney1980 · Feb 27, 2018

I bought this guitar at my local pawn shop today. Can someone tell me how to find the model?
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157504367776164&id=628356163

tripletime · Feb 28, 2018

TM1 said:
I would think that Kim LeFleur's "Historic Makeovers" would increase the value of any Historic!

love them - would pay more for one myself

not saying I would pay what the person who did it spent - they are going to take a shellacking - but yes I for sure would spend more for one - with a BW board -are you kidding

what's the upcharge from Gibson for that ????????

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