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  1. #81
    Les Paul Forum Member MeHereNow's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Yeah..

    people with an ounce of sense play straighttraveltostringpost guitars.. like a strat.

    then keep hitting and rolling off the volume control because it's to close..
    can't select the neck pu and bridge pu together.. or all 3 together..
    can't control the tone for all 3 pu independently cause there's only 2 tone pots
    need a 'string tree' to keep the E and B string in the nut and have downward tension so these string won't flabber in the nut causing buzzzzz
    then have those same 2 strings skreeching and pinging because of the metal to metal friction of string to stringtree
    can't play a good pitched doublestop cause the tension of the bend will cause the tremolo to dive a bit and detune all strings
    will have ghostnoting or reverberation from the tremolosprings in the back
    will have the neck shifting sideways in the neckpocket
    will 'fret out' at low action on the higher registers of the fretboard because of the 7.25" or 9.5" radii
    used to have the entire neck removed to adjust the trussrod
    or the whole front to maitenance the electric components

    Then, moving on to a Tele:
    or PRS:
    or any other fing guitar..

    Get it?

    Every guitar has 'design faults'


    And NASCAR.. that you don't need to be a NASCAR driver to recognize if your wheel is not balanced..
    Maybe so.. But you do need to be a good NASCAR driver to get the race finished or won with a unbalanced tire..
    Get my money, buy my medicine...

  2. #82
    Les Paul Forum Member JimFog's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHereNow View Post
    Every guitar has 'design faults'
    Absolutely true.

    But it seems that on this forum, getting most members to admit their beloved Les Paul is anything less than perfect is near sacrilege.

    They're just instruments, people. Tools. With advantages AND challenges.

    Doesn't mean we have to love them any less.

  3. #83
    Les Paul Forum Member MeHereNow's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimFog View Post
    Absolutely true.

    But it seems that on this forum, getting most members to admit their beloved Les Paul is anything less than perfect is near sacrilege.

    They're just instruments, people. Tools. With advantages AND challenges.

    Doesn't mean we have to love them any less.
    We love our Les Paul's indeed.
    That's why some of the worlds most passionate LP lovers started The Les Paul Forum in 1999.
    So it's not really hard to get to grips with that if their belovedLes Paul's are put away as seriously faulted guitars by some you'll get passionate replies is it?
    If someone does'nt like Les Pauls...
    Then why register on a Les Paul Forum?
    Get my money, buy my medicine...

  4. #84
    Les Paul Forum Member JimFog's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHereNow View Post
    If someone does'nt like Les Pauls...
    Then why register on a Les Paul Forum?
    I think you're making a big mistake in assuming that just because someone is realistic about plusses and minuses of any instrument, that they don't like it........or can't be passionate about it and even love it.

    It's not a zero sum game.

    Hell, my wife sure has presented me with "challenges" on a regular basis for 27+ years..........but I still love her more than I even did on the day we met. In fact, it's having a clear-eyed view of who she really is, faults and all, that just makes our relationship better.

    It's the same with guitars, IMO.

  5. #85
    Les Paul Forum Member MeHereNow's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimFog;2810840[COLOR=#ff0000
    ]I think you're making a big mistake in assuming that just because someone is realistic about plusses and minuses of any instrument, that they don't like it[/COLOR]........or can't be passionate about it and even love it.

    It's not a zero sum game.

    Hell, my wife sure has presented me with "challenges" on a regular basis for 27+ years..........but I still love her more than I even did on the day we met. In fact, it's having a clear-eyed view of who she really is, faults and all, that just makes our relationship better.

    It's the same with guitars, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by drewbarries View Post
    Sorry, it may be good enough for you and so very many but that really doesn’t mean they’re stable, it just means that personally you are ok with a little more deviation from optimum than some people. I mean c’mon just admit it, the design flaw is obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense and all of these purist claiming that because they’re working musicians so that then means they have some special knowledge is as absurd as saying that you need to be a NASCAR driver to recognize if your wheel is not balanced. This is just common physics and is why designs with straight string through don’t require the same type of high maintenance as do the traditional 3 x 3 deigns. Even Gibson came out with a Custom 346 to provide Paul Jackson with the higher bar for tuning stability that he desired. I guess he just didn’t know how to set up his guitar or didn’t know any professional luthiers. 😒
    But if someone told you that your wife's has a "design flaw that is obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense and all of these purist claiming that because you’re in a 27 year relationship that then means you have some special knowledge is absurd"..

    then..
    Would'nt you defend your wife?

    now read drewbarries 2nd post ever on the lpf again..

    What's your "assumption" then?
    Or no.. wait.. forget that.

    Let's wait and hear from himself
    Get my money, buy my medicine...

  6. #86
    Les Paul Forum Member Texas Blues's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I guess [by your standards] I don't have "an ounce of sense" since this supposed design flaw you speak of is not obvious. What is it?


    Considering that my Les Pauls [and all the ones I have borrowed] have stayed in tune just fine for over 40 years, I think you are way off base here.
    Maybe you don't know how to string and tune a guitar?

    Guitar Center comes to mind.

    But I understand.

    I would reckon that at least 99% of all guitar owners have no clue how to tune a guitar.

  7. #87
    Les Paul Forum Member Black58's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    2018 - The year of the troll

  8. #88

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHereNow View Post
    But if someone told you that your wife's has a "design flaw that is obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense and all of these purist claiming that because youÂ’re in a 27 year relationship that then means you have some special knowledge is absurd"..

    then..
    Would'nt you defend your wife?

    now read drewbarries 2nd post ever on the lpf again..

    What's your "assumption" then?
    Or no.. wait.. forget that.

    Let's wait and hear from himself
    You know your right I was wrong and Im sorry, I was in a crappy mood because I shared whatÂ’s been my experience and challenged folks to show me with a video demo and was ridiculed with stupid GIFs and ultimately kicked off the largest Gibson FB group for arguing with people about this very matter and then telling off one of the admins. So let me be more clear, yes I have had good experience with bone nuts combined with graphite and was able to maintain tuning within a reasonable tolerance, my preference of bone has been more challenging than with tektoid or nylon. I understand the passion because the reality is that tons of people play them and sound great with apparently no significany problems but maybe we can all agree that what is trivial to one may not be to another. I apologize if I was off base and implied you have no common sense if feel strongly that there is no issue whatsoever, that was uncalled for. I was not very tactful and a bit rude. I was just trying to say that the break angle is obviously a place of compound tension and higher friction than is necessary when compared to other designs and how that is observable just by inspection without even being a guitar player, itÂ’s just physics.

    I am an imperfect person, my wife is an imperfect person and you know what, we all are imperfect, each our own ways. One of my character flaws is that I am extremely OCD about tuning stability and because I like to split the difference between up and down the neck temperaments it really does come down to the gnats ass and staying there. I know there are so many great great rock guitarists that use digital tuners and I wish I sounded a tiny fraction as great they do.

    So let me offer an olive branch and just close by saying I love, love, love my Les Pauls and for most of the music I love there is no substitute. Any claims I made about tuning instability are definitely manageable with a combination of nut materials, setup and lubtication. IÂ’m currently in the process of changing both of my LPs to nylon for this reason. There is no uncertainty in my mind that it is absolutely possible to be a patron to any number of imperfect or high maintenance products and still acknowledge their respective limitations and so just like the other person said these things are not mutually exclusive. FYI, if youÂ’d like to learn more about why tuners donÂ’t give you the best up and down the neck tuning check out AndyÂ’s video where he explains it perfectly. Note - crybaby keyboardist that say that all studios make everyone use hi girls tuners and insist I do too need not waste their time, just move on....

    https://www.shutupandplay.ca/

  9. #89

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHereNow View Post
    But if someone told you that your wife's has a "design flaw that is obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense and all of these purist claiming that because you’re in a 27 year relationship that then means you have some special knowledge is absurd"..

    then..
    Would'nt you defend your wife?

    now read drewbarries 2nd post ever on the lpf again..

    What's your "assumption" then?
    Or no.. wait.. forget that.

    Let's wait and hear from himself
    Quote Originally Posted by MeHereNow View Post
    But if someone told you that your wife's has a "design flaw that is obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense and all of these purist claiming that because you’re in a 27 year relationship that then means you have some special knowledge is absurd"..

    then..
    Would'nt you defend your wife?

    now read drewbarries 2nd post ever on the lpf again..

    What's your "assumption" then?
    Or no.. wait.. forget that.

    Let's wait and hear from himself
    You know your right I was wrong and Im sorry, I was in a crappy mood because I shared what’s been my experience and challenged folks to show me with a video demo and was ridiculed with stupid GIFs and ultimately kicked off the largest Gibson FB group for arguing with people about this very matter and then telling off one of the admins. So let me be more clear, yes I have had good experience with bone nuts combined with graphite and was able to maintain tuning within a reasonable tolerance, my preference of bone has been more challenging than with tektoid or nylon. I do understand the passion because the reality is that tons of people play them and sound great and with apparently no significant problems. Maybe we can all agree that what is trivial to one may not be to another. I apologize if I was off base and implied you have no common senss and that was rude and uncalled for. I was not very tactful and It was wrong. I was just trying to say that the break angle is obviously a place of compound tension and higher friction than is necessary when compared to other designs and how that is observable just by inspection without even being a guitar player, it’s just physics.

    I am an imperfect person, my wife is an imperfect person and you know what, we all are imperfect, each in our own ways. One of my character flaws is that I am extremely OCD about tuning stability and because I like to split the difference between up and down the neck temperaments it really does come down to the gnats ass and staying there. I know there are so many great great rock guitarists that use digital tuners and I wish I sounded a tiny fraction as great as they do.

    So let me offer an olive branch and just close by saying I love, love, love my Les Pauls and for most of the music I love there is no substitute. Any claims I made about tuning instability are definitely manageable with a combination of nut materials, setup and lubrication. I’m currently in the process of changing both of my LPs to nylon for this reason. There is no uncertainty in my mind that it is absolutely possible to be a huge patron and fan to any number of imperfect or high maintenance products and still acknowledge their respective limitations and so just like the other person said these things are not mutually exclusive. I own and love a wide variety of guitars and like a lot of people want one of each.

    FYI, if you’d like to learn more about why tuners don’t give you the best up and down the neck tuning check out Andy’s video where he explains it perfectly. Note - crybaby keyboardist that say that all studios make everyone use digital tuners and insist I do too need not waste their time, just move on....

    https://www.shutupandplay.ca/

  10. #90
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimFog View Post

    But it seems that on this forum, getting most members to admit their beloved Les Paul is anything less than perfect is near sacrilege.
    I'll admit mine is less than perfect.




    But it has no tuning flaws or problems.
    Same with every other Les Paul I use.
    Maybe I'm just lucky.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  11. #91
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbarries View Post
    You know your right I was wrong and Im sorry, I was in a crappy mood because I shared what’s been my experience and challenged folks to show me with a video demo and was ridiculed with stupid GIFs and ultimately kicked off the largest Gibson FB group for arguing with people about this very matter and then telling off one of the admins. So let me be more clear, yes I have had good experience with bone nuts combined with graphite and was able to maintain tuning within a reasonable tolerance, my preference of bone has been more challenging than with tektoid or nylon. I do understand the passion because the reality is that tons of people play them and sound great and with apparently no significant problems. Maybe we can all agree that what is trivial to one may not be to another. I apologize if I was off base and implied you have no common senss and that was rude and uncalled for. I was not very tactful and It was wrong. I was just trying to say that the break angle is obviously a place of compound tension and higher friction than is necessary when compared to other designs and how that is observable just by inspection without even being a guitar player, it’s just physics.

    I am an imperfect person, my wife is an imperfect person and you know what, we all are imperfect, each in our own ways. One of my character flaws is that I am extremely OCD about tuning stability and because I like to split the difference between up and down the neck temperaments it really does come down to the gnats ass and staying there. I know there are so many great great rock guitarists that use digital tuners and I wish I sounded a tiny fraction as great as they do.

    So let me offer an olive branch and just close by saying I love, love, love my Les Pauls and for most of the music I love there is no substitute. Any claims I made about tuning instability are definitely manageable with a combination of nut materials, setup and lubrication. I’m currently in the process of changing both of my LPs to nylon for this reason. There is no uncertainty in my mind that it is absolutely possible to be a huge patron and fan to any number of imperfect or high maintenance products and still acknowledge their respective limitations and so just like the other person said these things are not mutually exclusive. I own and love a wide variety of guitars and like a lot of people want one of each.

    FYI, if you’d like to learn more about why tuners don’t give you the best up and down the neck tuning check out Andy’s video where he explains it perfectly. Note - crybaby keyboardist that say that all studios make everyone use digital tuners and insist I do too need not waste their time, just move on....

    https://www.shutupandplay.ca/

    and/or

    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  12. #92
    Les Paul Forum Member JimFog's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    But it has no tuning flaws or problems.
    Same with every other Les Paul I use.
    Maybe I'm just lucky.
    Tom,

    That's gorgeous. A lot of history there!

    Serious, non-trolling question......because I know you have more knowledge of guitars than I could even conceive of, and totally respect that, but I admit I don't know your history.

    How much and how often do you gig your Les Pauls? I'm not assuming that you don't, really just asking.

    Because, in my experience (playing out is what I've done for a living for the past 25-30 years), the real test of tuning stability on any guitar, Les Paul or not, is how it behaves on 3-4 hour gigs on a consistent basis. I've had instruments that I used in the studio and at home and were absolutely fine, but just could NOT cut it, tuning-wise, in a live environment. Many, many of them were Gibsons.

    I'll also concede that what you're used to playing, or grew up with, has a lot to do with it. I was a stone Strat/Tele guy. People bitch about keeping a vintage Strat trem in tune, or the control layout........and I can navigate that in my sleep at this point, no problem.

    But, I'm all-in now as a Gibson player. You'll have to pry the Trad, 335 or Flying V from my cold, dead fingers. So, don't think I'm a hater. With some negatives, there are also tons of positives, which win the day to me.

    But the tuning thing? It's a thing.......really.

    Just to finish, I'll tell you guys a funny story..........I was on a festival gig last summer.......the headliner was an act with a Les Paul god all of you (us!) rightfully worship (also a member here, so I won't out him). Backstage, before we went on, he was nice enough to come over and introduce himself and commented that he liked my 335. I said "Thanks, I love it.....but it's being temperamental right now". He gave me a knowing look and said "Tuning, right? Gibson-itis!! But that tone is sure worth it, isn't it?"

    I absolutely had to agree.

  13. #93
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimFog View Post
    Tom,

    Serious, non-trolling question......because I know you have more knowledge of guitars than I could even conceive of, and totally respect that, but I admit I don't know your history.

    How much and how often do you gig your Les Pauls? I'm not assuming that you don't, really just asking.
    I'm definitely not a pro or full time player. I'd say we average a few gigs a month. Some of those are now down to two one hour sets, but we still do many that are three one hour sets. And on my bi-annual Germany excursions I get in 4 - 8 gigs in about 12 days.
    I tune to start the night and virtually never need tuning again. And I certainly do bend strings a lot, although rarely more than two frets worth of bend. But bending strings in solos [and some other parts] is pretty constant on every song.

    Like I said, maybe I'm just lucky.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  14. #94
    Les Paul Forum Member MeHereNow's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I'm definitely not a pro or full time player. I'd say we average a few gigs a month. Some of those are now down to two one hour sets, but we still do many that are three one hour sets. And on my bi-annual Germany excursions I get in 4 - 8 gigs in about 12 days.
    I tune to start the night and virtually never need tuning again. And I certainly do bend strings a lot, although rarely more than two frets worth of bend. But bending strings in solos [and some other parts] is pretty constant on every song.

    Like I said, maybe I'm just lucky.
    I'm on the lucky bandwagon too then!
    But as stated so many times before, the guitar's allround proper functionality (be it strat, tele ,prs, lp or whatever) is mostly all down to the player/operator of the guitar.
    On my Gibsons and other gibson type guitars with 3x3 tuner setup, i made the nut "notched", meaning that all the strings lie ON the nutslots just enough to keep m there.
    The frictionpoint is minimal as is the contact with the nut.
    Also, i have the slots slightly angled toward the tuners and the nutslots gradually widened towards the end of the nut.

    I made a paintdrawing to visualize what i'm nutting about..
    Hope it helps a bit.

    meherenownuttalk.jpg
    Get my money, buy my medicine...

  15. #95
    Les Paul Forum Member Black58's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I'm definitely not a pro or full time player. I'd say we average a few gigs a month. Some of those are now down to two one hour sets, but we still do many that are three one hour sets. And on my bi-annual Germany excursions I get in 4 - 8 gigs in about 12 days.
    I tune to start the night and virtually never need tuning again. And I certainly do bend strings a lot, although rarely more than two frets worth of bend. But bending strings in solos [and some other parts] is pretty constant on every song.

    Like I said, maybe I'm just lucky.
    Curious about something, Caretaker. .. Are your Lesters on the lighter side of average, or heavier?

  16. #96
    Les Paul Forum Member JimFog's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    I'm definitely not a pro or full time player. I'd say we average a few gigs a month. Some of those are now down to two one hour sets, but we still do many that are three one hour sets. And on my bi-annual Germany excursions I get in 4 - 8 gigs in about 12 days.
    I tune to start the night and virtually never need tuning again. And I certainly do bend strings a lot, although rarely more than two frets worth of bend. But bending strings in solos [and some other parts] is pretty constant on every song.

    Like I said, maybe I'm just lucky.
    Cool. So you know what I'm talking about, even if we don't agree. That's fine.

    Everyone has different experiences. Doesn't mean I think yours is wrong, or mine is 100% right, or vice-versa.

    I just didn't like seeing some folks being dismissed as "not knowing how to tune" or full of shit..........any more than I think it's fair to categorize anyone on the other side as having lousy ears.

  17. #97
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black58 View Post
    Curious about something, Caretaker. .. Are your Lesters on the lighter side of average, or heavier?
    What's average?

    They are all over the place, and I don't notice any differences, even though there are some.
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  18. #98
    Les Paul Forum Member Black58's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    What's average?

    They are all over the place, and I don't notice any differences, even though there are some.
    ... Yeah, I hear ya. .. I was just pondering whether a lighter or heavier guitar holds tune better, and over time/circumstances.

  19. #99
    Les Paul Forum Member MeHereNow's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHereNow View Post
    I'm on the lucky bandwagon too then!
    But as stated so many times before, the guitar's allround proper functionality (be it strat, tele ,prs, lp or whatever) is mostly all down to the player/operator of the guitar.
    On my Gibsons and other gibson type guitars with 3x3 tuner setup, i made the nut "notched", meaning that all the strings lie ON the nutslots just enough to keep m there.
    The frictionpoint is minimal as is the contact with the nut.
    Also, i have the slots slightly angled toward the tuners and the nutslots gradually widened towards the end of the nut.

    I made a paintdrawing to visualize what i'm nutting about..
    Hope it helps a bit.

    meherenownuttalk.jpg
    Srry, post got hung up a bit..
    Thnx to forumfixer T.Allen now visible.
    Get my money, buy my medicine...

  20. #100
    Les Paul Forum Member JimFog's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black58 View Post
    I was just pondering whether a lighter or heavier guitar holds tune better, and over time/circumstances.
    Generally, with good setup, and all other things being equally, I've found that thicker necked guitars tend to be a wee bit more stable. That's not 100% across the board, but a trend I've noticed.

    Of course, I'm sure someone will jump in soon to tell me how wrong I am!!!

  21. #101
    Les Paul Forum Member Shocktop99's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Recently I picked up a 79 Les Paul custom with a TP-6 Tailpiece, and compared to my 74,(which had a normal Tailpiece) it holds tuning a lot better than just stock. Maybe it's just me, but I really don't notice any tuning stability issues.
    Last edited by Shocktop99; 02-16-19 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Incorrect spellings

  22. #102

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    I'll echo what others have said, once I learned the proper way to string ,made sure my nut slots are cut properly, (i do use pencil lead anyway)no tuning issues on any of my Gibsons. If you have a string that pings or binds something needs to be corrected.

  23. #103

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Hey Guys, this is my first post on this forum so hello!

    I just received today my 2019 Gibson Les Paul Classic - "Sweetwater Exclusive 57'" in Ocean Green Burst. Some background. I play mostly classic rock. I also had a 2013 Gibson Les Paul Standard that I wound up trading for a Schecter USA PT Custom Shop...the reason I traded is because the Gibson would not stay in tune at gigs....I tried a lot of things to resolve the issue (Nut Sauce, professional set up, etc.) but nothing worked....so good riddance... hello SCHECTER which is rock solid! Meanwhile, six years later i get the Les Paul bug again and fall in love with the 2019 "Classic" model. It is beautiful and plays and sounds great. Based on my past tuning issues, I had Sweetwater do a bone nut/ Grover locking tuners/ In house PLEX/ Setup upgrade before shipping it ...cost a small fortune but worth it if this guitar will stay in tune, right? Well the guitar is indeed beautiful but I gotta say, just strumming it tonight it still does not stay in tune!!!!!!! Maybe the new strings need time to stretch out but this has never been an issue with my other guitars. I was hoping to gig with it tomorrow night but now Im not sure....I wouldn't mind tuning up after every song but this guitar won't stay in tune that long...I mean it is way out of tune after every string bend. Yes I hear the dreaded "ping" in the nut. The G sting has the most pronounced difficulty but the B and high E aren't much better.....again, the strings are new but I never had this problem with my Schecters, Fenders or even my 2013 Gibson Grace Potter Flying V....I am not a "hard player" but yes I would like to bend the strings from time to time (Call me crazy)...so I think Im going to try to gig with it tomorrow night anyway and see if once the strings have broken in the the tuning stability will improve...but my initial excitement has now turned to concern. I will try the pencil lead thing. Do you guys recommend that " String Butler" device? This is absolutely ridiculous. Thanks!

  24. #104

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peopis View Post
    Hey Guys, this is my first post on this forum so hello!

    I just received today my 2019 Gibson Les Paul Classic - "Sweetwater Exclusive 57'" in Ocean Green Burst. Some background. I play mostly classic rock. I also had a 2013 Gibson Les Paul Standard that I wound up trading for a Schecter USA PT Custom Shop...the reason I traded is because the Gibson would not stay in tune at gigs....I tried a lot of things to resolve the issue (Nut Sauce, professional set up, etc.) but nothing worked....so good riddance... hello SCHECTER which is rock solid! Meanwhile, six years later i get the Les Paul bug again and fall in love with the 2019 "Classic" model. It is beautiful and plays and sounds great. Based on my past tuning issues, I had Sweetwater do a bone nut/ Grover locking tuners/ In house PLEX/ Setup upgrade before shipping it ...cost a small fortune but worth it if this guitar will stay in tune, right? Well the guitar is indeed beautiful but I gotta say, just strumming it tonight it still does not stay in tune!!!!!!! Maybe the new strings need time to stretch out but this has never been an issue with my other guitars. I was hoping to gig with it tomorrow night but now Im not sure....I wouldn't mind tuning up after every song but this guitar won't stay in tune that long...I mean it is way out of tune after every string bend. Yes I hear the dreaded "ping" in the nut. The G sting has the most pronounced difficulty but the B and high E aren't much better.....again, the strings are new but I never had this problem with my Schecters, Fenders or even my 2013 Gibson Grace Potter Flying V....I am not a "hard player" but yes I would like to bend the strings from time to time (Call me crazy)...so I think Im going to try to gig with it tomorrow night anyway and see if once the strings have broken in the the tuning stability will improve...but my initial excitement has now turned to concern. I will try the pencil lead thing. Do you guys recommend that " String Butler" device? This is absolutely ridiculous. Thanks!
    I switched from mine to nylon and had Charles Powers at Guitar CPR I’m Fairmont, WV do the work. He provided the absolute best set up and ultimately resolved my tuning issues to the best I’ve ever experience on any Les Paul. I highly recommend him for any and all guitar/amp work, he is one of the most talented and knowledgeable luthiers and electronics technicians I have ever worked with.

  25. #105

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peopis View Post
    I had Sweetwater do a bone nut/ Grover locking tuners/ In house PLEX/ Setup upgrade before shipping it ...cost a small fortune but worth it if this guitar will stay in tune, right? Well the guitar is indeed beautiful but I gotta say, just strumming it tonight it still does not stay in tune.

    Yes I hear the dreaded "ping" in the nut. The G sting has the most pronounced difficulty but the B and high E aren't much better.....
    If you paid a small fortune for the bone nut/locking grovers/Plek set up and are still having tuning issues and pings at the nut, I’d be questioning the competence of the Sweetwater tech.

    If the work was any good you shouldn’t be experiencing any of the above.

    For the record once I stretch my strings thats it, they stay in tune, you shouldn’t have to wait for them “stretch out”. If the set-up is good and the strings are stretched your guitar should stay in tune.

    I’d be onto Sweetwater if I were you to rectify your issues, harsh reality is the guitar hasn’t had a decent set-up.

  26. #106
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peopis View Post
    Hey Guys, this is my first post on this forum so hello!

    I just received today my 2019 Gibson Les Paul Classic - "Sweetwater Exclusive 57'" in Ocean Green Burst. Some background. I play mostly classic rock. I also had a 2013 Gibson Les Paul Standard that I wound up trading for a Schecter USA PT Custom Shop...the reason I traded is because the Gibson would not stay in tune at gigs....I tried a lot of things to resolve the issue (Nut Sauce, professional set up, etc.) but nothing worked....so good riddance... hello SCHECTER which is rock solid! Meanwhile, six years later i get the Les Paul bug again and fall in love with the 2019 "Classic" model. It is beautiful and plays and sounds great. Based on my past tuning issues, I had Sweetwater do a bone nut/ Grover locking tuners/ In house PLEX/ Setup upgrade before shipping it ...cost a small fortune but worth it if this guitar will stay in tune, right? Well the guitar is indeed beautiful but I gotta say, just strumming it tonight it still does not stay in tune!!!!!!! Maybe the new strings need time to stretch out but this has never been an issue with my other guitars. I was hoping to gig with it tomorrow night but now Im not sure....I wouldn't mind tuning up after every song but this guitar won't stay in tune that long...I mean it is way out of tune after every string bend. Yes I hear the dreaded "ping" in the nut. The G sting has the most pronounced difficulty but the B and
    high E aren't much better.....again, the strings are new but I never had this problem with my Schecters, Fenders or even my 2013 Gibson Grace Potter Flying V....I am not a "hard player" but yes I would like to bend the strings from time to time (Call me crazy)...so I think Im going to try to gig with it tomorrow night anyway and see if once the strings have broken in the the tuning stability will improve...but my initial excitement has now turned to concern. I will try the pencil lead thing. Do you guys recommend that " String Butler" device? This is absolutely ridiculous. Thanks!
    Nothing above rings true. I find it hard to believe and I don't.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  27. #107

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
    There is a big difference between a design flaw and crappy QC. In my experience Gibson QC is pretty shoddy and probably the worst of the bigger guitar manufacturers. Like everyone has said the big issues affecting tuning are having a properly cut nut and saddles, in my experience guitars from the factory generally have poorly cut nuts and as for saddle cuts, I'm sure I recall some one saying Gibson make their saddle cuts by hitting the string with a hammer, which one can assume does not lend it's self to precision and accuracy. This being said you can sort all of these issues out with some files and emery boards if you're even halfway handy and a decent tech can sort if out for you easily. Personally I think if you're spending Ł2000+ on a guitar it should stay in tune, it's sad when these issues are so common on Gibson guitars but don;t seem to be on Epiphones Tutuapp 9Apps Showbox ......
    Tragically with Big Box markdown chains you get none of that and most purchasers come up short on the ability and learning to complete an appropriate starting set up, or are too bamboozled, insensible or shabby to have it done well. I have reviewed and played all the huge brand guitars directly out of the case and they surely are worse. Epi's frequently highlight formed plastic nuts and too profound seat spaces. Might work new however right away down the line, watch out!!
    Last edited by klimbo; 02-19-19 at 02:22 AM.

  28. #108

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeMonguer View Post
    So I've watched a bunch of Youtube vids, and even had folks comment back stage at shows that Gibson's don't stay in tune. "nah brah, I need a floyd rose just to stay in tune dude... I don't even use the wammy, just the locking nut" (to later go on stage and make faces while imitating Dave Mustain... poorly...)

    I've never noticed this being an issue, and I've owned 6 of em over the years. Any tuning issues i did have where either from playing very very hard, broken necks/heal joints or some other physical damage.

    The story goes that because of the extreme headstock angle, and the compound angle of the D and G strings, the D and G strings will skip high because of bind at the nut, or some such BS, Hence Gibson going so far as to install brass nuts, with a zero fret, or graphite nuts (both blasphemy BTW) or the robo tuners that some folks like.

    Personally, the one and only Les Paul I had the had tuning issues was solved by having it set up correctly, and winding the strings in an even and tight fasion, I.E. not a ball of yarn on the headstock. Poof guitar that would not stay in tune for 10 minutes has been in tune for about a month now.... with regular play, and not even in a temperature controlled environment.

    Anyhow, I ramble... Whats yer thoughts on the Fabled Gibson Tuning issues
    I gigged 3 Les Pauls extensively in they 90s. Two specials and one Standard. I never had any tuning "issues" either. I mean I tuned them up before the show, and then put the guitar back in its case. Back then I didn't have a tuner in my signal chain either. I used some whatever tuner, that may or may not have had tape holding the battery in, before I plugged into my glorious and very simple rig (Les Paul, or Strat, big box Sovtek small bubble Green Big Muff, TS9, sometimes a DD3, into a 79 JMP 100 watt half stack --- sorry I was reliving memories).

    Now granted, the fact that the strings go off on an angle to the tuners, some worst then others, can exacerbate binding issues at the nut, possibly compounded by the rather noticeable headstock angle, but I took my guitars to a great tech who took care of my nuts. That didn't come out so well did it...well, sigh, you get the point

    So, yeah, make sure that you have a well cut nut, and no more tuning issues.

    Now I only have two Les Pauls, both Wildwood Specs, and they have given me ZERO tuning issues.

  29. #109
    Les Paul Forum Member Redwine's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by RocknRollShakeUp View Post
    I gigged 3 Les Pauls extensively in they 90s. Two specials and one Standard. I never had any tuning "issues" either. I mean I tuned them up before the show, and then put the guitar back in its case. Back then I didn't have a tuner in my signal chain either. I used some whatever tuner, that may or may not have had tape holding the battery in, before I plugged into my glorious and very simple rig (Les Paul, or Strat, big box Sovtek small bubble Green Big Muff, TS9, sometimes a DD3, into a 79 JMP 100 watt half stack --- sorry I was reliving memories).

    Now granted, the fact that the strings go off on an angle to the tuners, some worst then others, can exacerbate binding issues at the nut, possibly compounded by the rather noticeable headstock angle, but I took my guitars to a great tech who took care of my nuts. That didn't come out so well did it...well, sigh, you get the point

    So, yeah, make sure that you have a well cut nut, and no more tuning issues.

    Now I only have two Les Pauls, both Wildwood Specs, and they have given me ZERO tuning issues.
    You're exactly right here! I've never had tuning issues with any Gibson instrument that I've owned that was set up properly. I've had them with nuts and saddle slots that were not filed properly from the time I started as a kid on Epiphone, Squier, Fender, Gibson etc. But after a good setup and knowing how to string properly, that all disappeared. I only have two myself now, a 1990 Classic and a 2018 59 historic from wildwood and both are great guitars.

  30. #110

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Huh, no issues on a 2018 LP Standard. Obviously the strings will be unstable after re-stringing but that is gone within less than half an hour of playing. After that I have not experienced anything worse than my Strat. I change my strings around once a month to six weeks. Seriously confused as to what the fuss is about.

  31. #111

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Gibson quality is erratic. The higher up you go in their quality tiers the more likely you are to get one that is well built. Buy a used Historic/Custom Shop model and generally you don't have to deal with any quality issues. For the Gibson USA lineup I've seen everything from perfect to "should not have left the factory" quality over the last 20 years. I think a lot of people also don't know what to look for as some of it isn't immediately obvious. Badly cut nuts are a norm for a lot of guitars regardless of manufacturer so I don't hold it too much against them, but things like very obvious tooling marks on fretboard, binding and frets or frets that are not properly crowned are a very real issue. Finish issues range from paint over binding to bad orange peel effect on the finish and I've even seen one that had the finish cracked along the back of the neck in multiple places, on a 3000 euro guitar that was not some "relic" model. Store obviously did not care enough to send it back so they are partly to blame for letting Gibson get away with it. Another thing that is easy to miss is too much neck angle. Neck angle is needed to angle the neck back to accommodate the tall tune-o-matic bridge. With the correct neck angle, the tune-o-matic sits quite close to the top of the guitar while having enough adjustment range up or down. Tailpiece can also be screwed down and in my experience this adds a little bit of sustain and clarity. Too much neck angle means the bridge has to be very high and likewise the tailpiece and pickups get raised. This Gibson gets consistently wrong on their Gibson USA line. It's not the end of the world but a flaw nonetheless. Some install the strings thru the tailpiece backwards and wrap them over the tailpiece to combat this. To me the issue with Gibson is that they have flooded the market with guitars and each one does not get the attention it deserves in this price range. At least they have now pared down the absurd amount of models they had. If you want a Gibson, buy used. They are literally dime a dozen. 9Apps Cartoon HDVidmate
    Last edited by seoking; 03-20-19 at 02:29 PM.

  32. #112
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by seoking View Post
    Gibson quality is erratic. The higher up you go in their quality tiers the more likely you are to get one that is well built. Buy a used Historic/Custom Shop model and generally you don't have to deal with any quality issues. For the Gibson USA lineup I've seen everything from perfect to "should not have left the factory" quality over the last 20 years. I think a lot of people also don't know what to look for as some of it isn't immediately obvious. Badly cut nuts are a norm for a lot of guitars regardless of manufacturer so I don't hold it too much against them, but things like very obvious tooling marks on fretboard, binding and frets or frets that are not properly crowned are a very real issue. Finish issues range from paint over binding to bad orange peel effect on the finish and I've even seen one that had the finish cracked along the back of the neck in multiple places, on a 3000 euro guitar that was not some "relic" model. Store obviously did not care enough to send it back so they are partly to blame for letting Gibson get away with it. Another thing that is easy to miss is too much neck angle. Neck angle is needed to angle the neck back to accommodate the tall tune-o-matic bridge. With the correct neck angle, the tune-o-matic sits quite close to the top of the guitar while having enough adjustment range up or down. Tailpiece can also be screwed down and in my experience this adds a little bit of sustain and clarity. Too much neck angle means the bridge has to be very high and likewise the tailpiece and pickups get raised. This Gibson gets consistently wrong on their Gibson USA line. It's not the end of the world but a flaw nonetheless. Some install the strings thru the tailpiece backwards and wrap them over the tailpiece to combat this. To me the issue with Gibson is that they have flooded the market with guitars and each one does not get the attention it deserves in this price range. At least they have now pared down the absurd amount of models they had. If you want a Gibson, buy used. They are literally dime a dozen.
    For some reason, my used Custom stays in tune better than my ‘Traditional’ HP with TUSQ nut & G-Force or Standard with its stock nut & klusons (can hardly hold tuning at all). I think it’s the nut slots or perhaps the material? It does have wobbly tuners / tuning posts though.

  33. #113
    Les Paul Forum Member mariushoog's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    I own 3 LP's and a SG. The cheaper models (SG special 2012 and the LP WC T studio 2016) had some slight issues due to an improperly cut nut. I installed TUSQ graphites on both (yes I know, blasphemy !), and those issue were gone. I also own a Fender, PRS and an Ibanez, and compared to those, all my Gibsons hold tune at least as good, if not better than those brands. Like many have stated on this thread; if the guitar is setup properly, a Gibson, at least from my experience, holds tune at least as good as the other "A" brands listed. Period.

  34. #114
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by mariushoog View Post
    I own 3 LP's and a SG. The cheaper models (SG special 2012 and the LP WC T studio 2016) had some slight issues due to an improperly cut nut. I installed TUSQ graphites on both (yes I know, blasphemy !), and those issue were gone. I also own a Fender, PRS and an Ibanez, and compared to those, all my Gibsons hold tune at least as good, if not better than those brands. Like many have stated on this thread; if the guitar is setup properly, a Gibson, at least from my experience, holds tune at least as good as the other "A" brands listed. Period.
    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! +10000000000
    The older I get, the better I was.

  35. #115

    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    I agree, this guitar never goes out of tune, a 59 nylon nut, it's about how its cut. You want the least amount of contact as possible, and "drop off" at the back. I've been reshaping nuts for people since I was a kid. There's no need to change the nylon nut.




  36. #116
    Les Paul Forum Member LPR6's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by jbzoso2002 View Post
    I use rail lube in the nut slots.

    Its used for archery bows.

    Usually just 1 application and no binding any more.

    Jimmy
    No more binding ever?

  37. #117
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: The Fabled Les Paul/Gibson tuning issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by LPR6 View Post
    No more binding ever?
    It is simple, properly cut nuts for the strings gauge simply cannot bind.
    The older I get, the better I was.

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