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NGD, 1959 ES-345

F

F-Hole

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Sep 2, 2015
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2,174
I don't know whether mixing 335's and 345's was standard practice, but I very much doubt it.

The 335 I'm referring to is the (only) factory black '59. The FON is definitely correct, and it has the early varitone choke routes......but was never fitted with a varitone. It also has single ply binding on the top, unlike a 345. It was redesignated from 345 to 335 in the ledger and on the orange label too. Make no mistake, however, this guitar left the factory as a 335. It was also shipped later than most in the same FON, October 59 in this case, which is late for a first rack, although the black 345s also have serials that suggest they were shipped somewhat later than they were made.
 
ourmaninthenorth

ourmaninthenorth

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Mar 28, 2009
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7,124
The colouring on this guitar is sublime.

Love it. Thanks for sharing.

In the rudest of, GuitarMikey

:salude
 
GuitarMikey

GuitarMikey

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Mar 1, 2013
Messages
910
Tom Wittrock said:
And collecting FONs [and making some of the data open] sounds like a good idea.
Now if Gibson would just share the records they have, history could be a little clearer. :ganz
Click to expand...

Sounds like a great idea! Sign me up :salude
 
sharky

sharky

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Jan 25, 2012
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1,267
wow, what a beauty, congrats. I love them split parallelograms even more than a dot neck
 
mdubya

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
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1,026
What a cool and beautiful guitar! I love that it has some history and a little bit of a story. Way more interesting than a "perfect" one. :3zone
 
OKGuitar

OKGuitar

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Jan 20, 2011
Messages
938
In general, they didn't mix them but there are notable exceptions. John's black dot neck was in a rack full of 345's, although it's serial number is way later than the rest of the rack (by about 1400 numbers). The first three racks are generally considered "first racks" (by me anyway) and they were made during April and May of 59. The serial of John's 335 is from September. Figure that one out. It is the only one in that rack that has turned up.

There is a 335 is rack S1798 that is a 345 rack. There are racks of 355's with both stereo and mono 355's which is kind of a different model. My FON database is up to close to 200 guitars, so the sample is beginning to make a little sense. It is clear that rack numbers were skipped. It is clear that most racks had 35 guitars all or most the same model. What makes the database a little less revealing is that I don't pay any attention to ES-175's and others that were on the same FON system. I simply don't see a lot of those guitars, so I don't include them.

I should also note that there is a "pre first rack" rack of 345's from February that showed up last year (2 examples and not prototypes). They have the 58 FON T7303 and serials A29132 and A29133. That rack also has at least two 335's both with June 59 serials both of which I've owned. For some reason this 58 rack got pushed well into 59. You want some of the best sounding 335's I've ever heard? That's the rack to look for along with the next one T7304. They will be thin tops like a 58 but neck angles like a 59.

Is this too geeky by half? I will eventually publish the database but only after I can make more sense of it and draw some intelligent conclusions. If you haven't already sent me your FON and serial for your '58 -61 ES-335, 345 or 355, I would appreciate it. Let me know what model, what color, stop or Bigsby and bobbin color if you know. The color of the Varitone ring is helpful is its a stereo. You can PM or email me at okguitars@gmail.com

Oh, and nice 345 Mikey.
 
GuitarMikey

GuitarMikey

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Mar 1, 2013
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910
Appreciate the info Charlie and thanks for a helping me with a few of the gold parts I was missing!

Mike
 
G

geddy402

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Jan 19, 2014
Messages
216
Very nice, congrats!

Can you tell first rackmguitars by the SN or just lot number? Not that I’m going to run into one of thes in the wild, but would love to know how to recognize it. Or do you have to pull the pickups out to see the short leg magnets?
 
GuitarMikey

GuitarMikey

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Last edited:
G

geddy402

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Jan 19, 2014
Messages
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GuitarMikey said:
This one came from the wild, so never say never!

Along with the FON, I believe that the key features are the black VT ring, huge neck, smaller bridge pickup rout and short leg PAF. Some also have the wax potted VT chokes.
This old thread might help explain it a little more.

https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/...First-Rack-quot-ES-345-s&highlight=first+rack

Another very good read from Charlie's site...

http://www.es-335.com/2013/06/15/first-rack-es-345/

Mike
Click to expand...

awesome, thanks!
 
Frutiger

Frutiger

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
730
OKGuitar said:
In general, they didn't mix them but there are notable exceptions. John's black dot neck was in a rack full of 345's, although it's serial number is way later than the rest of the rack (by about 1400 numbers). The first three racks are generally considered "first racks" (by me anyway) and they were made during April and May of 59. The serial of John's 335 is from September. Figure that one out. It is the only one in that rack that has turned up.

There is a 335 is rack S1798 that is a 345 rack. There are racks of 355's with both stereo and mono 355's which is kind of a different model. My FON database is up to close to 200 guitars, so the sample is beginning to make a little sense. It is clear that rack numbers were skipped. It is clear that most racks had 35 guitars all or most the same model. What makes the database a little less revealing is that I don't pay any attention to ES-175's and others that were on the same FON system. I simply don't see a lot of those guitars, so I don't include them.

I should also note that there is a "pre first rack" rack of 345's from February that showed up last year (2 examples and not prototypes). They have the 58 FON T7303 and serials A29132 and A29133. That rack also has at least two 335's both with June 59 serials both of which I've owned. For some reason this 58 rack got pushed well into 59. You want some of the best sounding 335's I've ever heard? That's the rack to look for along with the next one T7304. They will be thin tops like a 58 but neck angles like a 59.

Is this too geeky by half? I will eventually publish the database but only after I can make more sense of it and draw some intelligent conclusions. If you haven't already sent me your FON and serial for your '58 -61 ES-335, 345 or 355, I would appreciate it. Let me know what model, what color, stop or Bigsby and bobbin color if you know. The color of the Varitone ring is helpful is its a stereo. You can PM or email me at okguitars@gmail.com

Oh, and nice 345 Mikey.
Click to expand...


It's the access to, and the willingness of others to share information like this, that makes this site so important! Excellent info Charlie :salute
 
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