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Thread: Beano(?)-Maybe?

  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Beano(?)-Maybe?

    About 1974/75, a long time close friend owned a `59 Burst s/n #9 3177. It's in Robb's book (the 1st one). I have a photo of it when the covers were put back on as my friend likes covers. But in Robb's book the neck pickup is Dbl. White and the bridge pickup Dbl. Black. The guitar has Grovers and is pretty plain. I remember seeing it the first time and thinking to myself, you spent $1,500. for a `58 Flying V and traded it even for the plaintop Les Paul? I was use to seeing originals with some flame.
    All these years later I carry around in one of my guitar cases a photo of my #11 Travis Bean Artist-very first Travis Bean with a serial number and the 3rd guitar they made next to my friend Ricky's old Les Paul that he had. Photo was taken by his swimming pool with both leaning up against a palm tree when we lived in Portland, Texas.
    The photo has his old LP with covers on, but on page #235 in Robb's book it shows it with the covers off. It's faded, but not badly for 1975. the top inlays seem to match pretty well.
    Now..., this is where it gets interesting to me. The guitar was bought from an Overseas Navy Man's local wife who needed to buy groceries. The Navy chap could have been in U.K., bought the guitar and brought it back here. The woman who sold the guitar got $125.00, a pittance. The Navy guy could have bought it for a low price because whomever knicked from Clapton sure didn't have anything into it.
    Anyway, sounds plausible to me.. I have no idea who owns this guitar now or where it is. Would be a real hoot if it's actually "Beano". I remember playing it and thinking that the neck was pretty small compared to my Travis Bean and against my `61 Melody Maker. The Melody Maker had a pretty wide neck, but thinner from front to back and my Travis Bean was more like a mid Fifties Les Paul. But the photo on #235 vs. the photo of EC in Decca Studios look pretty similar. I'll see if my friend Ricky has some better shots.
    Cheers!

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Hmm...

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  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member StSpider's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?



    Lots of things in the story seem more than coincidences but the inlays or the top don't see to match to me. Maybe there are better pics of 9 3177 around?
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    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?




    This has been suggested several times is the past, but I say it again: Why doesn@t someone in the UK with a bit time on his hands track down the photographer of the Beano sessions, and see whether he or his relatives still have the negatives. The guy was a professional photographer and his name is known (even mentioned somewhere around in the forum). Using the negatives and some modern image processing software it should be easy to enhance the woodgrain and patterns of the inlays, which will make is so much easier to match with currently known bursts.
    Just sayin...

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?








    Hmm, someone call the History Detectives. The barely visible grain lines to the left and above the controls going into the center seem appear to be the same angle.

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    9-3177 ??
    As far as we know [from years of research] a 9-3XXX serial number on a Burst would seem incorrect.
    I've never seen an example with a clear, untainted serial number.
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    Les Paul Forum Member 58burst's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    To my eyes from that famous photo, the distinctive feature of Beano's top is a large, light "eye" in the maple grain centered loosely between the volume knobs. This guitar doesn't seem to have that-

  8. #8
    Les Paul Forum Member JJ Blair's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    It's (not) Beano!!!!

  9. #9
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Beano has a fairly large gap between the fretboard and the neck pup ring that this guitar doesn't seem to have.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    JJ; was just speculating as the similarities are more than most. That's why I posted. The guitar that my friend Rick had owned I have not seen or played in 40 years. I'm trying to find some shots of it that are clearer.
    But I'm pretty certain that it's not it, but... You never know. From what I remember, it wasn't a very remarkable guitar in looks. Of course in that time period I had my head up my arse with my Travis Bean's.... I would imagine that we've all been in a position where we get an instrument and think "this is it". I foolishly did that with PRS in 1990 and sold a great ES-335... Thinking "oh, I'll never need anything else.. That was the last time I was so foolish...
    I'd like to know where this guitar is now though...
    Thanks!

  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    You're all way off the mark Fella's...

    We've got it in the North of England....and you ain't getting it back....

    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post
    You're all way off the mark Fella's...

    We've got it in the North of England....and you ain't getting it back....

    LOL....cool box! I subscribed to the Beano for years.. And years.. and years. Not so much into comics over the last 20-25 years like I was..
    Beano and Mad magazine ruled..

  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member JJ Blair's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    JJ; was just speculating as the similarities are more than most. That's why I posted. The guitar that my friend Rick had owned I have not seen or played in 40 years. I'm trying to find some shots of it that are clearer.
    But I'm pretty certain that it's not it, but... You never know. From what I remember, it wasn't a very remarkable guitar in looks. Of course in that time period I had my head up my arse with my Travis Bean's.... I would imagine that we've all been in a position where we get an instrument and think "this is it". I foolishly did that with PRS in 1990 and sold a great ES-335... Thinking "oh, I'll never need anything else.. That was the last time I was so foolish...
    I'd like to know where this guitar is now though...
    Thanks!
    I was just making a joke about the threads with previously unseen Bursts where somebody always posts "It's Beano!"

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    9-3177 ??
    As far as we know [from years of research] a 9-3XXX serial number on a Burst would seem incorrect.
    I've never seen an example with a clear, untainted serial number.
    Isn't the Keith Richards Burst s/n #9 3182 ?

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    It was at "Vintage & Rare" in U.K. Link:https://www.vintageandrare.com/produ...Sunburst-53105
    Grovers were removed and Kluson's put back on and the covers are back on the pickups.




    Last edited by TM1; 01-02-18 at 04:18 PM.

  16. #16

    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Whatever it is, I love that top and back.

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    Isn't the Keith Richards Burst s/n #9 3182 ?
    That serial number was added during repairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    It was at "Vintage & Rare" in U.K. Link:https://www.vintageandrare.com/produ...Sunburst-53105
    Grovers were removed and Kluson's put back on and the covers are back on the pickups.

    This link shows a headstock with serial number 9-2177. Who the f*ck is reading that as 9-3177?
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  18. #18
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Sure looks like a "3" to me Tom. It's never been repaired. If it was it was before Ricky owned it in 1974. Keith's was never repaired either and his number is 9 3182.

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    Sure looks like a "3" to me Tom. It's never been repaired. If it was it was before Ricky owned it in 1974. Keith's was never repaired either and his number is 9 3182.
    Unfortunately, your photo doesn't show on my screen.
    Hopefully, you can see mine.

    I had this Burst at least a year before I realized it wasn't 9-3012.

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  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Unfortunately there are several photos [apparently hosted on photobucket ] in this thread that are not showing on my screen.
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  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Tom, I see both those. Works on my iMac with Firefox. I do notice that when I try to copy & paste that photobucket blacks out the link. If I go to the library I can copy just fine. I really dis-like what Photobucket tries to do by charging $399. for their "copy, paste & host" photos. I think they get plenty of money and they're not getting anymore of mine..

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Now I'm trying Google Chrome, and now the photos show.

    That's the same photo of the headstock on the link. To me it clearly looks like 9-2177.
    This is why I posted what I did earlier. I have had plenty of experience with these 9-2xxx Bursts and I have seen several where the 2 looks like a 3 [as I showed in my photo].

    Does anyone have a clear, macro image of a Burst serial number higher than 9-2xxx?

    As for the Keith Burst, I heard it was stolen a long time ago and the number had to be written again.
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  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Now I'm trying Google Chrome, and now the photos show.

    That's the same photo of the headstock on the link. To me it clearly looks like 9-2177.
    This is why I posted what I did earlier. I have had plenty of experience with these 9-2xxx Bursts and I have seen several where the 2 looks like a 3 [as I showed in my photo].

    Does anyone have a clear, macro image of a Burst serial number higher than 9-2xxx?

    As for the Keith Burst, I heard it was stolen a long time ago and the number had to be written again.
    I have no clue, I know it was stolen in 1972 while they were recording Exile...

  24. #24

    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    sorry ..am confused ..how is this not 9 -3012?

    Jon



    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Unfortunately, your photo doesn't show on my screen.
    Hopefully, you can see mine.

    I had this Burst at least a year before I realized it wasn't 9-3012.


  25. #25
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TM1 View Post
    Sure looks like a "3" to me Tom. It's never been repaired. If it was it was before Ricky owned it in 1974. Keith's was never repaired either and his number is 9 3182.
    I'm reading it as a 2 as well Don...








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  26. #26
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Brook View Post
    sorry ..am confused ..how is this not 9 -3012?

    Jon
    Simple ... the second digit is definitely a 2, even though it looks like a 3 [at first]. The dark filled grain adds to the confusion.
    But trust me [and many others], that's 9-2012 and not 9-3012.
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  27. #27
    Les Paul Forum Member Kris Ford's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    At first, I saw a 3..THEN I saw the 2...
     photo norlin_logo.jpg

  28. #28
    Les Paul Forum Member Triburst's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Then I saw 3 3612. You've got to trust the experts, or hold it yourself

  29. #29
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Simple ... the second digit is definitely a 2, even though it looks like a 3 [at first]. The dark filled grain adds to the confusion.
    But trust me [and many others], that's 9-2012 and not 9-3012.
    ^^

    True dat

  30. #30
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by fakejake View Post


    This has been suggested several times is the past, but I say it again: Why doesn@t someone in the UK with a bit time on his hands track down the photographer of the Beano sessions, and see whether he or his relatives still have the negatives. The guy was a professional photographer and his name is known (even mentioned somewhere around in the forum). Using the negatives and some modern image processing software it should be easy to enhance the woodgrain and patterns of the inlays, which will make is so much easier to match with currently known bursts.
    Just sayin...
    I wondered that myself. The photographer was the late David Wedgbury. The negatives and the copyrights are held by Snap Galleries in London. If somebody really wants a high resolution picture of Beano it can be done easily although it won't come cheap. The gallery's website lists the 32x32 inch print of the iconic picture for 2.500 pounds.

    As for the quality: The pics have been probably taken by a middle-format camera which would have a resolution still much greater than most DLSR cameras of today. Hell, even a 35mm Leica would have enough resolution to show the grain on a microscopic level. Whith a professional photographer operating a middle-format camera you should expect pictures with details not far from the burst pictures by CD. David Wedgebury died in 1998 so it wasn't like there had not been enough time to research the case and get in touch with him personally. As that seemingly never happend, most likely nobody ever cared enough about the whereabouts of that guitar other than some guys on a web forum.

  31. #31

    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garincha View Post
    I wondered that myself. The photographer was the late David Wedgbury. The negatives and the copyrights are held by Snap Galleries in London. If somebody really wants a high resolution picture of Beano it can be done easily although it won't come cheap. The gallery's website lists the 32x32 inch print of the iconic picture for 2.500 pounds.

    As for the quality: The pics have been probably taken by a middle-format camera which would have a resolution still much greater than most DLSR cameras of today. Hell, even a 35mm Leica would have enough resolution to show the grain on a microscopic level. Whith a professional photographer operating a middle-format camera you should expect pictures with details not far from the burst pictures by CD. David Wedgebury died in 1998 so it wasn't like there had not been enough time to research the case and get in touch with him personally. As that seemingly never happend, most likely nobody ever cared enough about the whereabouts of that guitar other than some guys on a web forum.
    I did exactly this a few years ago. I paid to have scans of every frame of Wedgbury's entire shoot in hopes that there'd be additional images, other than the few that we all know so well, where the guitar, or amp for that matter, could be seen. My deeper hope was that at least one image might even have the back of the headstock visible, but to no avail, the two or three that we've come to know are the only frames that show EC with the guitar.

    As mentioned above the quality and resolution of these 2-1/4 film negatives are outstanding, and extremely sharp. The scans I paid for were similar to a contact sheet, my goal was to see every frame, not compare wood grain. But to Garincha's point, a high-resolution scan of the front image, the one is this thread, would provide clear detail, no question. If anyone thinks they know of a Burst that fits the bill that would be the way to go. There's an old thread on this discussion in fact but a few, um Forum members doubted the availability of the negatives and the resolution. They are available, I found them easily.

  32. #32
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    This forum came into existence in 2001 and that's when(for many of us) this whole Beano thing took shape........for me since 2003 when I came onboard.
    Beano is a fascination and a searching out.........I'd put a small amount of $$ towards a (hopefully) difinitive pic of it.......... if others would do likewise.........it could possibly become property of the forum on that basis if everyone agreed to same?

  33. #33
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Someone launch a kickstarter and I'd be happy to put in 10$, just to see where this is going. If everyone on the forum interested participates we might have a much better version of that iconic picture soon.

  34. #34
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by fakejake View Post
    Someone launch a kickstarter and I'd be happy to put in 10$, just to see where this is going. If everyone on the forum interested participates we might have a much better version of that iconic picture soon.
    I'm afraid that wouldn't work as expected ;) You can buy a high quality print of that picture, but you can't scan and publish it here. The copyright for the pictures is also held by Snap Gallery and it would certainly be a bigger task to talk them into letting the LPF publish a HiRes version of Wedgebury's pictures. What might be possible is to buy the print, scan it but publish only a small portion of it (which would still be enough for showing the grain). But before doing so I'd still seek legal advice considering web copyright issues can be very ugly!

    As much as I like the detective-story aspect of this, I'm afraid if even Eric himself doesn't care enough to really go forensic, it won't happen...

  35. #35
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    No need to go to these lengths.

    I'm absolutely convinced that there are some who know the exact whereabouts of this guitar.

    I'm glad they're staying tight lipped...what else would we have to talk about...
    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  36. #36
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldtop0 View Post
    This forum came into existence in 2001 and that's when(for many of us) this whole Beano thing took shape........for me since 2003 when I came onboard.
    Beano is a fascination and a searching out.........I'd put a small amount of $$ towards a (hopefully) difinitive pic of it.......... if others would do likewise.........it could possibly become property of the forum on that basis if everyone agreed to same?
    I wasn't aiming at this forum since as you said, it only came in existance after Wedbury's dead. I was aiming more towards the numerous rumours about Beano that were flying around as far back as the early 80s. I remember having read an interview with Mick Moody in a german guitar magazine where he talks about one of his (or Marsden's I don't know exactely) Burts that somebody suggested to be Beano. We know today that this wasn't true, but it shows how far back the Beano rumours went. If the Whitesnake people were really interested to know if their guitar was Beano, a visit at David Wedgebury's place would have sorted it out. Even Clapton himself could have gone to greater length but appearently wasn't interested that much.

    I honestly think the mystery surrounding the guitar is probably the most interesting thing about it. Imagine one day it is discovered and we find out it plays and sounds just average ;)

  37. #37
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmaninthenorth View Post

    I'm absolutely convinced that there are some who know the exact whereabouts of this guitar.
    ...which means absolutely nothing whithout a proof. And that's where the HiRes prints come into play ;) I'm convinced the current owner has gone to these lenght already...

    But let's face it: The sole reason why the guys in the know keep their mouthes shut are the legal aspects of it. If some burst would be identified as Beano, it would get very ugly in no time. They ain't saving the mystery for us, they are saving their own asses ;)

  38. #38
    Les Paul Forum Member ourmaninthenorth's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garincha View Post
    ...which means absolutely nothing whithout a proof. And that's where the HiRes prints come into play ;) I'm convinced the current owner has gone to these lenght already...

    But let's face it: The sole reason why the guys in the know keep their mouthes shut are the legal aspects of it. If some burst would be identified as Beano, it would get very ugly in no time. They ain't saving the mystery for us, they are saving their own asses ;)
    I simply thought I'd add to the paucity of "proof" in the whole narrative....heard the rumour? No?..hold on, I'll start one....

    Of course, if one knows where this guitar is; and those people do exist - I've done my very best comedic conspiracy thinking on this... any public domain proof is the last thing they'd desire...

    So we get the big, high res shot..what then? All it'd really mean is that instead of 20 page threads, they'd only now be two posts long...

    Q. Is it Beano?

    A. No

    Shakespeare walks into a pub, the Landlord says "get out, you're Bard"

  39. #39

    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garincha View Post
    I'm afraid that wouldn't work as expected ;) You can buy a high quality print of that picture, but you can't scan and publish it here. The copyright for the pictures is also held by Snap Gallery and it would certainly be a bigger task to talk them into letting the LPF publish a HiRes version of Wedgebury's pictures. What might be possible is to buy the print, scan it but publish only a small portion of it (which would still be enough for showing the grain). But before doing so I'd still seek legal advice considering web copyright issues can be very ugly!
    You can easily negotiate with the estate owners through Snap a fee that would be for "research only, not for publication", that's what I did. Although it wasn't cheap it was worth it for me to answer the lingering question I've had for some time, which was: Were there any other photos from that session where you could see that guitar and amp? You don't need to publish them for everyone else to see if you just want to compare tops. I have the scans but I can't share them. And it would be cheaper than buying a numbered art print.

    I also reached out to Mike Vernon who produced the BB album, he's still active in the blues community, asking if he was aware of any other unpublished photos from that day, sadly he did not know of any. In fact he had not even seen most of the other ones that I described from the Wedgbury shoot.

    FWIW a 300dpi or higher resolution digital scan from that size negative would provide way better resolution than a print ever would. If someone has a guitar top to compare it with it would most likely provide a wood grain fingerprint. Photography is my profession for the past 40 yrs so I'm not trolling here.

  40. #40
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Beano(?)-Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by houndog31 View Post
    Although it wasn't cheap it was worth it for me to answer the lingering question I've had for some time, which was:
    Were there any other photos from that session where you could see that guitar and amp?
    So, what's the answer to that question?
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