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50s wiring vs modern

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
It's been several years that I have been a convert to 50's wiring and I love it 100% . Way back when , My Les Paul's had a sound like they were covered and muted , since I switched over to the 50's wiring a whole new world of tone has opened up . Yes this is most helpful to me as I play thru Marshall 2555X heads with a good amount of volume and my tone is a mid heavy tone and I have the volume on the bridge pickup on 10 and the tone on 6.5 and this works wonders for me .
 

bocacra

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
5
Hi All,

I'm new in this forum as bought my first LP recently. It is a white burst signature T, and the very first time i had it in my hands I new i wanted to re-wire it to the Jimmy Page mod, to get those parallel/series and out of phase sounds.

I had never wired a guitar before, but following a youtube tutorial I managed to get the guitar sounding, without noise and it seems that is totally working, all the phase switching and the series/parallel options. The tutorial is from "Breja Tone Works", I chose it because had the 50s wiring incorporated (if it is the capacitors location), and the question I have is about the 50s wiring.

When i use the controls, i don't get any similar to what is said here in this thread. I found the sound with more "top end" (english is not my first languaje sorry if the terminology is not accurate), i mean the highs are louder and the lows are almost the same, the result is like a "middle-lost"... does it make sense?

When i have the volumen at 10, the tone does nothing, it isn't working, if i put the tone at 4 and lower the volume, the sound lose the "highs" very quick, with the tone at 0 the result is like playing inside a swimming pool...

When i leave the tone knob at 10 and lower the volume the result is great, no treble lost, but i dont know if that "middle-losing" is because the wiring itself or if I did something wrong...

Has this happened to anyone?

Thanks

D.
 

Don

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Messages
5,732
Hi All,

I'm new in this forum as bought my first LP recently. It is a white burst signature T, and the very first time i had it in my hands I new i wanted to re-wire it to the Jimmy Page mod, to get those parallel/series and out of phase sounds.

I had never wired a guitar before, but following a youtube tutorial I managed to get the guitar sounding, without noise and it seems that is totally working, all the phase switching and the series/parallel options. The tutorial is from "Breja Tone Works", I chose it because had the 50s wiring incorporated (if it is the capacitors location), and the question I have is about the 50s wiring.

When i use the controls, i don't get any similar to what is said here in this thread. I found the sound with more "top end" (english is not my first languaje sorry if the terminology is not accurate), i mean the highs are louder and the lows are almost the same, the result is like a "middle-lost"... does it make sense?

When i have the volumen at 10, the tone does nothing, it isn't working, if i put the tone at 4 and lower the volume, the sound lose the "highs" very quick, with the tone at 0 the result is like playing inside a swimming pool...

When i leave the tone knob at 10 and lower the volume the result is great, no treble lost, but i dont know if that "middle-losing" is because the wiring itself or if I did something wrong...

Has this happened to anyone?

Thanks

D.

Welcome to the forum. I'm not sure of the answer to your question, but something does not seem right. I suggest that you start a new thread on this. More members are likely to see it if it's a new thread.
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
Hi All,

I'm new in this forum as bought my first LP recently. It is a white burst signature T, and the very first time i had it in my hands I new i wanted to re-wire it to the Jimmy Page mod, to get those parallel/series and out of phase sounds.

I had never wired a guitar before, but following a youtube tutorial I managed to get the guitar sounding, without noise and it seems that is totally working, all the phase switching and the series/parallel options. The tutorial is from "Breja Tone Works", I chose it because had the 50s wiring incorporated (if it is the capacitors location), and the question I have is about the 50s wiring.

When i use the controls, i don't get any similar to what is said here in this thread. I found the sound with more "top end" (english is not my first languaje sorry if the terminology is not accurate), i mean the highs are louder and the lows are almost the same, the result is like a "middle-lost"... does it make sense?

When i have the volumen at 10, the tone does nothing, it isn't working, if i put the tone at 4 and lower the volume, the sound lose the "highs" very quick, with the tone at 0 the result is like playing inside a swimming pool...

When i leave the tone knob at 10 and lower the volume the result is great, no treble lost, but i dont know if that "middle-losing" is because the wiring itself or if I did something wrong...

Has this happened to anyone?

Thanks

D.

Welcome to the Forum . To me it sounds like something is not right with the wiring harness . If I were you I would have it checked out by a good guitar tech . I have the same issue with a Les Paul of mine that I grabbed when I was in LA and the bridge pickup ( Throbak ) just does not sound strong enough and I suspect that the actually bridge pickup was incorrectly installed in the neck position and I will have my Tech check the harness as well to make sure it is wired to 50' vintage spec . I shipped my guitar to my tech and told him to pull the mounting ring on the bridge pickup to verify that it is the actually bridge pickup .
 

bocacra

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
5
Welcome to the forum. I'm not sure of the answer to your question, but something does not seem right. I suggest that you start a new thread on this. More members are likely to see it if it's a new thread.

Thank you i will do it
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
I am confused?

Which one of the wirings keep the high end when you roll of volym?


If by ‘modern wiring’ we are talking about regular production .gibsons, the reason why these guitars maintain the high end when rolling down past 7 on the dial is that Gibson has used linear taper pots in their regular production guitars since the early ‘70’s. A linear pot gives one a wider usable sweep similar to what a treble bleed circuit with an audio taper pot or the ‘50’s wiring with an audio taper pot yields.
Re: treble bleed circuits. I have found that I prefer to tune the bleed circuit for the pickups in use rather than use what is consider as ‘standard’ treble bleed circuit components values. I have found that a .001mfd cap with a paralleled 150kohm resistor maintains trebles but does not maintain circuit aspects of the midrange. Different values can achieve a uniform signal with regard to frequencies at any volume setting.
I am not sold on the ‘50’s wiring with audio taper pots....but I do prefer it to an unbypassed audio taper pot.
 

Sol

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
If by ‘modern wiring’ we are talking about regular production .gibsons, the reason why these guitars maintain the high end when rolling down past 7 on the dial is that Gibson has used linear taper pots in their regular production guitars since the early ‘70’s. A linear pot gives one a wider usable sweep similar to what a treble bleed circuit with an audio taper pot or the ‘50’s wiring with an audio taper pot yields.
Re: treble bleed circuits. I have found that I prefer to tune the bleed circuit for the pickups in use rather than use what is consider as ‘standard’ treble bleed circuit components values. I have found that a .001mfd cap with a paralleled 150kohm resistor maintains trebles but does not maintain circuit aspects of the midrange. Different values can achieve a uniform signal with regard to frequencies at any volume setting.
I am not sold on the ‘50’s wiring with audio taper pots....but I do prefer it to an unbypassed audio taper pot.

Just to clarify, are you referring to the volume pots being linear ? Many thanks
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
I just switched my 345 to 50's wiring and the volume drop is pretty insane when you roll back the volume knob. Im not sure what the hype is with 50's wiring. Its got lots of treble but its got zero body once the volumes down to like 6 or 7 which is where I usually live
 
Last edited:

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
I just switched my 345 to 50's wiring and the volume drop is pretty insane when you roll back the volume knob. Im not sure what the hype is with 50's wiring. Its got lots of treble but its got zero body once the volumes down to like 6 or 7 which is where I usually live
So I decided to try and stick with 50’s and it’s absolutely better so I take back everything I said.

the clarity is unreal, just had to find my new spots. Nothing like it.
 

bocacra

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
5
So I decided to try and stick with 50’s and it’s absolutely better so I take back everything I said.

the clarity is unreal, just had to find my new spots. Nothing like it.

Yes something similar is happening to me. I just realized that i had to change the settings of the amps to "acomodate" to the new signal. With that i can have the same results as before (i think..., btw what strings do you use? have seen the youtube video of rick beato about the incidence of the gauge?) but also putting the volume in 7.5 (audio pots) i have something new, it is not what i expected, but i think it could be better... why is factory preferred the "modern" wiring? I think the discussion is there, if everyone who tries it stick with the 50s, why is not factory preset??

D.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Just as many like modern.
Look we use what works for us. This notion that 50's is some magical tonal secret that unlocks the true greatness of our guitars and modern wiring is everything evil is beyond laughable.

One persons clarity is anothers shrill, retain brightness or become thin. If it works for you, fine, that's all it does.

I play predominantly straight into non master vintage amps. My ability to use my controls to consistently color my tone is important. Some of what I've read here makes me doubt the source.
Even in my crippled f'd up state I can make it happen.
Simply because it works for me and I understand how to work the controls. That's all it is. I have vintage guitars and have learned how to work them as is, as I keep them stock. Of the two types, I prefer the modern style. It just works better for me.

However, this notion that modern wiring somehow hampers my ability to pull stellar tone or prevent me from giging with bandmates is beyond belief. I must have imagined the thousands of gigs over my lifetime as a steady working musician.
 
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bocacra

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
5
Just as many like modern.
Look we use what works for us. This notion that 50's is some magical tonal secret that unlocks the true greatness of our guitars and modern wiring is everything evil is beyond laughable.

One persons clarity is anothers shrill, retain brightness or become thin. If it works for you, fine, that's all it does.

I play predominantly straight into non master vintage amps. My ability to use my controls to consistently color my tone is important. Some of what I've read here makes me doubt the source.
Even in my crippled f'd up state I can make it happen.
Simply because it works for me and I understand how to work the controls. That's all it is. I have vintage guitars and have learned how to work them as is, as I keep them stock. Of the two types, I prefer the modern style. It just works better for me.

However, this notion that modern wiring somehow hampers my ability to pull stellar tone or prevent me from giging with bandmates is beyond belief. I must have imagined the thousands of gigs over my lifetime as a steady working musician.

Agree. Logic says if they decided to stop wiring that way must be a good reason. The fact is that I rarely read anything about the "cons" of 50s wiring, everyone writes about the "pros". So i just wondered why is that they changed to "modern" and stick to that over so many decades... must be something. I dont have two identical guitars so i can compare one to one the pros and cons, i have to "remember" what i had and try to compare. At the end the important thing is that the sound you have is what you want.:hank
 

ScumbackSpeakers

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
247
I had the modern wiring in my 68 Les Paul Custom. Whenever I turned down the volume, I lost the high end, and it got woofy/muddy. When I switched to 50's wiring it retained the high end without a treble bleed mod.

Now if you don't roll your volume knobs and use a pedal then you probably can leave your guitar volume knobs on 10 and it won't make much difference. But since I play (usually) a single channel amp, and roll my volumes, the 50's wiring makes a big difference in the clarity of the guitar tone when the volume is rolled off.

Just my .02/experience.

Jim
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
Yes something similar is happening to me. I just realized that i had to change the settings of the amps to "accommodate" to the new signal. With that i can have the same results as before (i think..., btw what strings do you use? have seen the youtube video of rick beato about the incidence of the gauge?) but also putting the volume in 7.5 (audio pots) i have something new, it is not what i expected, but i think it could be better... why is factory preferred the "modern" wiring? I think the discussion is there, if everyone who tries it stick with the 50s, why is not factory preset??

D.
I was never sure what to do with my old 345 after taking the varitone out, and im glad im at 50s wiring now. the BEST with the right pots. I use Daddarrio 10's. I saw that Rick Beato thing and I always thought 9's sounded better, but my hands cant make the conversion down to 9's in a live setting. I just stopped worring about the "number" setting and just used my ears like I used to. Id say because of the more modern player, not really adjusting the tone and volume knobs, into high gain amps, they make the choice to use modern when the guitar is made. Makes me think about some old custom shop les pauls I owned, wondering if they were modern or 50's
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
Just as many like modern.
Look we use what works for us. This notion that 50's is some magical tonal secret that unlocks the true greatness of our guitars and modern wiring is everything evil is beyond laughable.

One persons clarity is anothers shrill, retain brightness or become thin. If it works for you, fine, that's all it does.

I play predominantly straight into non master vintage amps. My ability to use my controls to consistently color my tone is important. Some of what I've read here makes me doubt the source.
Even in my crippled f'd up state I can make it happen.
Simply because it works for me and I understand how to work the controls. That's all it is. I have vintage guitars and have learned how to work them as is, as I keep them stock. Of the two types, I prefer the modern style. It just works better for me.

However, this notion that modern wiring somehow hampers my ability to pull stellar tone or prevent me from giging with bandmates is beyond belief. I must have imagined the thousands of gigs over my lifetime as a steady working musician.
I can say, I do feel for what I personally want, the 50's gets me there and sounds superior to me, the way I run my rig. But its what works for you, and why until people try it for themselves, they wont know.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
I can say, I do feel for what I personally want, the 50's gets me there and sounds superior to me, the way I run my rig. But its what works for you, and why until people try it for themselves, they wont know.

Absolutely! They both have strengths and weaknesses and there is no universal Best". It depends upon personal style, signal chain and voodoo. I have 'em both ways and can use either, but one works best for me.
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
Absolutely! They both have strengths and weaknesses and there is no universal Best". It depends upon personal style, signal chain and voodoo. I have 'em both ways and can use either, but one works best for me.
Same! That’s the way, or as they say in The Mandalorian “this is the way”.

people crap on the whole “voodoo” stuff and get super practical, but there is an element of real stuff and then a mental aspect. To me, it’s comparable to putting a great fuzz face copy in a generic enclosure, and putting something else that doesn’t sound as good, in a FF enclosure. The voodoo of the FF enclosure makes folks want THAT.

50’s works great for me, but I had to find new spots. But I think a lot of folks look at numbers on potentiometer knobs instead of using the numbers on your ears :)
 

Wallaby

New member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
12
There's something that happens to the mids and upper-mids with 50's wiring that I don't like. I'm used to using the tone and volume in modern wiring, so I just stick with that.
 
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