Mystery early ‘60s Gibson archtop - input and theories wanted - what do you think?

So... first off: I decided to keep it, and the guitar is no longer for sale.

However, with the way Photobucket works now, I figured it was easier to post this, so that you can see the photos:

https://reverb.com/item/6807723-gibson-vintage-custom-order-archtop-electric-1963-red

I’m very interested in hearing your thoughts/observations/input about this guitar.

How did this guitar come to be? Why was it made, for who, etc.?

One little update: I removed the shielding can for one of the pots. I didn’t unsolder anything - just removed the outer can, so I could hopefully get a look at the pot codes. As it turns out, there were no codes on the bottom of the pot, although the solder was clearly all factory original. As we know, Gibson switched from Centralab pots to CTS sometime in ‘63. With no pot codes on the bottoms, these are definitely Centralab pots. I’ve owned a ton of pre-63 Gibsons, and these are definitely pre-63 era Centralabs.

A guitar of this quality should have a label.
And the pot codes should be there. Did you check the sides?

Hey Tom - yes, the label is the original one from 1952. The serial number and FON number both are consistent with a ‘52 ES-5.

Unfortunately I couldn’t get a look at the sides of the pot. I had it loosened from its original position, but it was still attached to the harness, and the bottom half of the shielding can was still attached, obscuring the sides. I was assuming the codes would be visible on the bottoms, but when I saw it up close, I realized it was a pre-mid-‘63 Centralab, as opposed to the post-mid-‘63 CTS I had originally expected.

Good looking guitar!

Thank you!

The only other detail I know about the guitar’s history: the guy I bought it from, bought it from someone in California. I wish I knew more about it.

All the electronics and wiring is all factory original. I am 100% convinced. All original solder joints, all the wiring, all around. Plus, the fact that the neck humbucker is narrow-spaced, I believe, adds even more support to the idea of it being a Gibson factory job of some kind.

I've seen this guitar before (online, that is). Don't remember who owned it, but I have a photo that was labeled as "1952_ES5_04.jpg". So I'm guessing it may have been taken in 2004. I look at so many guitars on the web, and save so many photos, I just can't remember where I found it. In the photo I saved, it has a tune-o-matic on it. I don't browse ebay and reverb as much as I used to, so I hadn't even noticed this being for sale.

My gut feeling then (and now, I have to say) is that I think "1970's" when I see that wine red, as well as that pickguard look (with the space between the top of the guard and the cutaway, which was common on archtops in the 70's and beyond). Just a gut feeling, based on 40 years of staring at vintage Gibsons. It would be cool if someone like Gruhn or Walter Carter or some other expert could examine it carefully.

Coincidentally, I have photos of a '58 Switchmaster, also red, which was for sale at the Philadelphia guitar show a year or two ago. Still haven't found any analysis of that guitar, which I suspect was also refinned.

Anyway, if this were my guitar, I would replace that pickguard- yesterday! Anybody who's dealt with outgassing understands the potential for damage, and this guitar is way too pretty to take any risks. That Switchmaster tailpiece is one of the most beautiful designs in Gibson's history, imo.

I think this beauty belongs in "The Red Thread"! :salude

Thanks man!

Good point about the pickguard - I should probably take it off to avoid any possible damage to the guitar.

I’m probably going to take the guitar to the Philly show in November - I’d love to have it looked at in person.

A couple of additional little details (other than the stuff already mentioned) that I have noticed about the guitar that I think are interesting:

I think that the position of the pickguard, located pretty far “south” towards the bridge and tailpiece of the guitar, is due to the fact that the pickguard that they used is actually one for a circa ‘63 sharp cutaway L-5 CES. I have been looking at circa ‘63 L-5 CES photos, and to me, the pickguards seem to be an exact match, in shape and material. I think they basically took a circa ‘63 stock pickguard for a sharp cutaway L-5 CES, and therefore when it was installed, it looks the way it does (“south” location) on the rounded cutaway body of my guitar:





Also, I never really focused too much on the truss rod cover, other than the fact that it was pre-narrow-bevel (therefore I always figured pre-1965ish), but these seem to have been used on custom orders in particular. When I took off the TRC recently I think I was probably the first person to do that in decades, based on the shadow of dust and dirt that had accumulated:

Another shot of the pickguard, might be able to see it better in this photo:

What year did the carved tops go to the 5 piece neck? I thought it was around '63?? Maybe then putting yours right before that considering the pickups. Looks great, I promise to get my hands on a good L5 again one day.

Thanks! Yes, I believe it is the original neck from when it began its life as a ‘52 ES-5.

Here are a couple more random shots of the guitar, now that I’ve figured out how to link successfully:

JimR56 said:

I think this beauty belongs in "The Red Thread"! :salude

Click to expand...

https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/...Factory-Red-Gibsons-from-the-Golden-Era/page6

Couldn't hurt, right? la