New wiring / pots = real step forward?

Hey folks,

I love that forum, first of all.

My problem or thought is about the benefit of a new Les Paul wiring and pots from e.g. CTS TVT vs. the old standard wiring of Les Pauls or Japanese Les Pauls.

Is there really a difference if the wiring is like "the same" at the moment just with slightly different looking pots (but the same measurements)?

Thanks in advance!

There has to be something beyond a string of electrical values- it is a combination of how it is done in the older harness, not just numbers. You can hear it. But that doesn't mean it has to be old materials, just like materials- it can be reproduced with modern materials.
I can't explain how that happens though.

Perregrintuk said:

Hey folks,

I love that forum, first of all.

My problem or thought is about the benefit of a new Les Paul wiring and pots from e.g. CTS TVT vs. the old standard wiring of Les Pauls or Japanese Les Pauls.

Is there really a difference if the wiring is like "the same" at the moment just with slightly different looking pots (but the same measurements)?

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

I do too! The things they showed were beyond imagination! THIS forum could use some of that energy and visuals but then it wouldn't be suitable for work anymore!

Different combinations of pot values/tapers and paper-in-oil caps vs. mylar and possibly even better switches and jacks (probably wire too) can combine to make magic on some guitars. If you think about it, connections being steady or tenuous with good vs. cheap pots switches and jacks it makes sense. I don't know so much about composition of caps, but I have been VERY happy with PIO's and not so happy with others, so I'm guessing there is something to it. I'm sure on the internet you can find someone who will "out-science" me and call me an idiot though. A role I happily play.

You absolutely can hear the difference between different wiring schemes and components, especially pots and some difference in caps (although not as much as tone snobs would have you believe!).

I recently rewired my Tokai LP with 50s wiring (which puts the tone circuit after the volume), swapped in orange drop caps and 500k pots, rewired the switch and jack with braided wire.

The improvement is vast ,and I think it would be even to the untrained ear (I'm not saying yours is untrained!). It was my first full rewiring project and I will definitely do it again on other guitars. The Tokai pickups are actually great but the wiring, caps and pots were killing the power, top end and clarity.

Bigger pot values added output level and top end, capacitors made it less brittle, 50s wiring stops the treble bleeding immediately you roll off volume and braided wire and a decent star ground have made it completely silent even under flourescent lighting.

(My first, smaller job was swapping out the small ceramic caps in my Gibson '61 RI with orange drops and even that small change noticeably smoothed the top end and detail.)

So in short, YES! :##

Just a few thoughts:

1.) The style of wiring, i.e. 50's vs. Modern, etc. is a big factor in how the control circuit will behave. Since you are changing the location of tone control connection to the volume pot you change the behavior of the controls. I've always found this to be a logical first step when I do wiring changes. I really like how this modification changes the circuit for the better.

2.) More so than the brand name of the pot would ultimately be the quality/feel of the pot (sturdiness, stiffness of rotation) and the taper. Taper is the most important factor next to ruggedness and build quality. Taper is what determines the usable range of the pot and is a key factor.

3.) Caps is always a very deep, somewhat volatile (has the potential to be at least) so i'll leave it at this: Try some out and go with what sounds best, is affordable and gets you the proper frequency response for your particular guitar and tone control value. This may be a cheap ceramic, a Mallory/Sozo style film cap, or a Vintage/Repro PIO. The most important factor with caps is how the tone control value and cap value shape frequency. After that there may be nuances to explore with cap type.

4.) Go with a sturdy switch.

5.) I like the "black box" style switchcraft jacks but anyway suitable rugged jack is suitable.

I use modern connection with quality components and values of my choosing. There is a very strong benefit in my case. I want the slight treble roll off when I roll back the volume to reduce drive and clean up my tone. When I do this I don't get strident plinky tone and my pickups and amps sound brighter when I clean up. I've never lacked treble, ever and IMO, this is an often parroted nugget blown way out of proportion. Never on a gig or recording session has my tone found lacking, nor have my guitars been found to suffer for using such an inferior scheme. Seems everyone wants to play them.

Maybe if I used higher wound pickups and used a woolier darker amp tone, but I don't.

I also use my tone controls. A lot! 50's connection causes the tone control to interact with the volume in ways I don't like. I like my tone to stay consistent and when I adjust my tone control, I don't want my volume to change.

QUALITY COMPONENTS ALWAYS IMPROVE TONE & PERFORMANCE. Pots, caps, jacks, wire and solder professionaly installed is a great thing. Which way depends on your preference, nothing more. What works best for you.

Big Al said:

I use modern connection with quality components and values of my choosing. There is a very strong benefit in my case. I want the slight treble roll off when I roll back the volume to reduce drive and clean up my tone. When I do this I don't get strident plinky tone and my pickups and amps sound brighter when I clean up. I've never lacked treble, ever and IMO, this is an often parroted nugget blown way out of proportion. Never on a gig or recording session has my tone found lacking, nor have my guitars been found to suffer for using such an inferior scheme. Seems everyone wants to play them.

Maybe if I used higher wound pickups and used a woolier darker amp tone, but I don't.

I also use my tone controls. A lot! 50's connection causes the tone control to interact with the volume in ways I don't like. I like my tone to stay consistent and when I adjust my tone control, I don't want my volume to change.

QUALITY COMPONENTS ALWAYS IMPROVE TONE & PERFORMANCE. Pots, caps, jacks, wire and solder professionaly installed is a great thing. Which way depends on your preference, nothing more. What works best for you.

Click to expand...

You know, this is an interesting observation. I wonder if it’s a stage volume versus bedroom/home volume thing.

When I first started getting into soldering and doing my own wiring I owned a Carvin Valvemaster 100 half stack. It was switchable down to 25 W. I was auditioning modern versus 50’s wiring and I wired Each of my Epi Standards a different way. I noticed that when I was playing at bedroom volumes on the 25w setting I enjoyed the sound of 50’s wiring more. When my wife was out and I could open it up on the 50 or 100W setting, I noticed I liked the modern wiring better for the reasons you described.

After I sold the Carvin I only played at bedroom volumes. All my guitars had 50’s wiring after that.