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70's Les Paul Deluxe with unusual bridge

Gene

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Aug 28, 2017
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10
Hello all. This is my first post to the forum. I bought a 70's Les Paul today with an unusual bridge. It's a Schaller 456 wraparound bridge with fine tuners. I pulled it off with the intention of replacing it with a standard tune-o-matic. Here's the unusual part...the bridge has studs and inserts that are spaced for a wraparound tailpiece, but there's also studs and inserts for a standard tailpiece. These were clearly done at the factory. If the holes for a standard bridge were drilled (2-3/4" spacing) and then later spaced further apart to accommodate a wraparound bridge, I'd see evidence of previous holes and dowels (it's a translucent red finish). And if the tailpiece holes were drilled later, how did they mount a bridge on the wider (3-1/4") spacing? So here's my question to the group: If the Schaller was installed at the factory, why did they also drill for a standard tailpiece? Is there another type of bridge or vibrato that uses two sets of tailpiece spacing? Any help is greatly appreciated.
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WBailey

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Apr 23, 2015
Messages
1,131
I think that is a refinished goldtop.

There are dowels plugging the original bridge posts under the trans/red.

But, would be covered by drilling for tailpiece bushings.

Why ? IDK :salude

More pics would be helpful.
 

Gene

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Aug 28, 2017
Messages
10
I think that is a refinished goldtop.

There are dowels plugging the original bridge posts under the trans/red.

But, would be covered by drilling for tailpiece bushings.

Why ? IDK :salude

More pics would be helpful.



That's a good explanation, but I'm fairly certain that the original bridge inserts would not be completely covered by the new "tailpiece" inserts. Coincidentally, I'm considering converting the bridge to a normal configuration, and then making it a Goldtop to cover up the mess. Last night I saw a YouTube video for the Stetsbar, a top-mounted vibrato that mounts using the tailpiece holes. That is another option. Thanks for your input.
 

Gene

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
10
I think that is a refinished goldtop.

There are dowels plugging the original bridge posts under the trans/red.

But, would be covered by drilling for tailpiece bushings.

Why ? IDK :salude

More pics would be helpful.



You might be correct...it might have been a goldtop. The finish on the top is considerably better than the rest of the guitar. Well done!
 

marshall1987

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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
The exact origins of that combination tailpiece shall forever remain a mystery. Clearly influenced by Gibson's TP-6 fine tuning tailpiece. Extremely uncommon IMO.
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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Early 70s would not have had inserts for the bridge, and the holes would not be left after the massive drilling for this bridge which was clearly designed for a wrap application. No reason to believe that is factory, specially considering the lack of compensation angle.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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14,531
Early 70s would not have had inserts for the bridge, and the holes would not be left after the massive drilling for this bridge which was clearly designed for a wrap application. No reason to believe that is factory, specially considering the lack of compensation angle.

Exactly. Non original modified refin.
 

GotTheSilver

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Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,433
Man, people were smoking a lot of dope in the '70s! Oh, sorry, I mean "grass"! :hee
 

Gene

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Aug 28, 2017
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Early 70s would not have had inserts for the bridge, and the holes would not be left after the massive drilling for this bridge which was clearly designed for a wrap application. No reason to believe that is factory, specially considering the lack of compensation angle.

Thanks for your insight. If there weren't bridge inserts, the new inserts would definitely hide the previous holes. I pulled the pickups, and the inside is red. No trace of gold. The mystery is solved!
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,531
Those pickups aren't original and have been routed for humbuckers. It is fair to assume the cavities are not original. Nothing in the photo appears original to the guitar with the thumbslicers excepted. Depending upon yom the speed knobs may be, if late 70's. The new bushings could indeed cover nashville bushings so lack of dowel is inconclusive.
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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Cavity pictures would be helpful (and just fun) and would answer a lot of questions.

It's possible the guitar came with humbuckers. Very rare possibilty that it shipped red. The bridge posts? no way.
 

guitplayer

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Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
2,114
Thanks for your insight. If there weren't bridge inserts, the new inserts would definitely hide the previous holes. I pulled the pickups, and the inside is red. No trace of gold. The mystery is solved!

Really!?:lol
 

rutts

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Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
2
Had to join and reply as this is almost my guitar. 72ish LPD with a 456, PAF's, pots dated 71 and gold grovers. I picked it up in 84 and had never heard of another like this. I cant find any plugs under the posts to prove a retrofit. Plays and sounds like a dream. Will add pics as soon as i figure out how
 

zombiwoof

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Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,565
The exact origins of that combination tailpiece shall forever remain a mystery. Clearly influenced by Gibson's TP-6 fine tuning tailpiece. Extremely uncommon IMO.

No mystery, it's a Schaller bridge. I had the 455, which has a solid bar attached to the back instead of the fine tuner bar. They still make them AFAIK (at least the 455). I'm pretty sure that isn't stock from the factory. Those are good solid bridges, it's a great idea, the 455 is like a tunematic with the stop bar attached to the back of the bridge, but fits in place of a wrap bridge. I put one on a Melody Maker belonging to my brother that I gigged with as a slide guitar for a couple of years and it worked great.
Al
 

rutts

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Mar 17, 2019
Messages
2
What throws me is my neck has the extra F inlay meaning it should be a custom. But no diamond on headstock. still cant figure out how to attach pics
 
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